Misc Play off preview: are game threads slowly becoming a cesspool that need fixing ?

[Correct Crusader]

I want this place to be Spurstalk 2.0 tbh, just without the blatant racism/sexism and over the top politicizing.

agree 100%. The worst part of spurstalk (other than the shitty servers) was threads getting completely derailed due to ideological arguments

 

[LeBowen]

I want this place to be Spurstalk 2.0 tbh, just without the blatant racism/sexism and over the top politicizing.

Add over the top meltdowns and I agree.
For example, your gimmick is funny because you're good at not making it too obvious to people that are unaware of it. We need more of that.

 

[Correct Crusader]

I personally don't see much of a problem, especially because the ignore function is so good. If you personally are upset about someone shitting their pants during a game you can choose to literally never see their posts again

 

[LeBowen]

I personally don't see much of a problem, especially because the ignore function is so good. If you personally are upset about someone shitting their pants during a game you can choose to literally never see their posts again

Alright, I give up, you're completely missing the point.
I personally don't care, I don't even need to ignore anyone as I'm mostly skipping posts by certain users that often have meltdowns.
But what do I and more importantly current site ownership cares about is people not participating in game threads because a few members can't control their emotions and spam nonsense. Not everyone will ignore or skip those posts.

Since sports bar analogy was used, what would the sports bar owner do if he had let's say 10 tables of people having fun and one table with a bunch of dickheads ruining the atmosphere for everyone? That's right, he'd kick them out.
Except that we don't want anyone to get kicked out because we're all old enough to behave like civilized human beings.

And that's it from me on this matter.
I've said everything there was to say.

 

[OK Computer]

This is a tough discussion.

You’re going to see people on complete opposite sides of this, and both will defend their stance.

For the people who think everything is fine the way it is, look beyond what you are okay with. Think about the people who are considering joining but don’t. You can take the stance that they don’t belong here anyway, but that comes off as selfish and short-sighted. If new users stop coming in, this place eventually dies.

This isn’t about turning this into something like Reddit. That comparison doesn’t really hold. Reddit didn’t grow because of moderation differences. It grew because it’s easy to use, easy to search, and already had a strong base of users.

The real question is how to make this place more appealing to newcomers without defaulting to “we need more moderation.” That’s not the only path. And acting like the current environment is something exclusive that only certain people should be able to handle is just gatekeeping, and is the same reason why the website isn’t growing.

People say they value open speech because they’re open-minded and can tolerate things. If that’s true, then that same mindset should apply to being open-minded about people who aren’t here yet. If something is stopping them from joining, that matters.

If the goal is to keep this place alive, then ignoring that isn’t an option.

 

[spursistan]

if this thread is about me I promise I'll (try) to tone down the cliff jumping in game threads. Otherwise I think game threads are fine the way they are tbh.

Stay as you are Robz They're acting like this franchise, despite winning so much, hasn't suffered some of the most numbing playoffs heartbreaks ever (6, Fisher's 0.4, 2 backdoor sweeps after long season-ending win streaks '04, '12 and 2 painful G7 losses in seasons they would have won the title in in 2006 and 2015)..

So yeah being on pins and needles for this team in the playoffs is warranted ..

 

[Neuromancer]

Most of us spent decades at Spurstalk though... so this place is much more tame and chill in comparison. I don't mind Rob(z) melting down in a game thread here and there. Someone else being upset at something doesn't really bother me personally (basketball/game related). I just don't think it's a big enough deal to warrant any real change at this point personally. But that's just me

 

[Neuromancer]

Also why are we so concerned with new comers. Are they really avoiding registering because of the discourse in the game threads? I highly doubt it. We have a lot of guest traffic that aren't bots like ST. I think plenty of people browse the forum, just not everyone wants to sign up and actually post. There is a ton of engagement here. I don't think we're hurting for new members but maybe the powers that be think otherwise

 

[scott]

Appreciate the thoughtful response. I guess it would be helpful if we had a general idea of what we feel is crossing the line. Is when we get down 10 and someone says "fuck this team"? Is it when someone calls Keldon a retard for dribbling a ball off his foot at a bad time? I just want to know specifically what, from those who don't feel things are fine the way they are, think constitutes crossing the line in a game thread. Obviously slurs and hate speech don't need to be pointed out as bad. But where is the line

Like I always thought of a game thread a stream of consciousness type deal where we're all watching as if we were at a bar or something. I don't think anyone is reading game threads mid game for deep insightful analysis tbh

Some examples for me:

• Any bigoted language obviously crosses the line, first and foremost. This includes racial, ethnic, religious, gender based bigotry. There has been some female ref discussion that is downright appalling
• "Player X sucks/is worthless/etc." is fine in the moment. 20 posts repeating the same thing because you're unable to deal with your emotions over something designed to be entertainment is basically just spamming.

Really that's about it.

To me a good rule of thumb is if you wouldn't say it in public (either because you'd be shunned, or fired, or if it would get your assed kicked by saying in the wrong crowd in public, etc.), don't say it here.

 

[scott]

The point of game threads is extremely reactionary commentary. We're all pretty invested in this spurs team so the emotions flare. As long as you're not a dick to other people in the thread I think it's fine.

I don't think everyone agrees with the premise that this is the point of game threads. I think for a lot of people, the point of game threads is to discuss the game... I don't know why it needs to be "extremely reactionary" - but I also acknowledge I may be misunderstanding your intention behind that term.

 

[Neuromancer]

Some examples for me:

• Any bigoted language obviously crosses the line, first and foremost. This includes racial, ethnic, religious, gender based bigotry. There has been some female ref discussion that is downright appalling
• "Player X sucks/is worthless/etc." is fine in the moment. 20 posts repeating the same thing because you're unable to deal with your emotions over something designed to be entertainment is basically just spamming.

Really that's about it.

To me a good rule of thumb is if you wouldn't say it in public (either because you'd be shunned, or fired, or if it would get your assed kicked by saying in the wrong crowd in public, etc.), don't say it here.

Okay those are some good examples. That kinda stuff I can agree with

 

[scott]

I want this place to be Spurstalk 2.0 tbh, just without the blatant racism/sexism and over the top politicizing.

Robz, you're my guy so this isn't directed towards you but I do want to address this.

This is just my opinion, but as one of the three people who owns this site... I do think my opinion carries a little bit of weight.

Personally, I don't want this place to be Spurstalk 2.0. Spurs talk was filled with a lot of shit. You called out a lot of the parts we want excluded, which I agree with, but there is more.

There is only one part of Spurstalk that I really care about preserving which is why I joined the effort to work towards us having a new home: the high quality basketball analysis and discussion. I don't care about any of the rest of it. Some of it, I can tolerate, some of it I could do without, and some of it makes the rest not worth it.

At some point, the site will just be what it will be and no one will be able to control that. And at some point, some people will choose to opt out. This happened at ST right up the point where there was no one left to even ensure a functional infrastructure. I want to avoid that becoming our future.

 

[The Truth #6]

I come check out threads now and then, but much less than I used to. But I'm pretty sure that's not because of the content of posters, but the team just seems insanely good now and there's not really a lot for me to say and I feel stupid complaining. Perhaps the "quiet majority", so to speak.

Rather than moderating the low end, for me, I'd love to motivate certain posters to add conversation starting material. For example, Chinook used to drop some essays that I didn't completely agree with but were thought provoking. But maybe that was easier when the team was bad.

Just rambling...

 

[scott]

I come check out threads now and then, but much less than I used to. But I'm pretty sure that's not because of the content of posters, but the team just seems insanely good now and there's not really a lot for me to say and I feel stupid complaining. Perhaps the "quiet majority", so to speak.

Rather than moderating the low end, for me, I'd love to motivate certain posters to add conversation starting material. For example, Chinook used to drop some essays that I didn't completely agree with but were thought provoking. But maybe that was easier when the team was bad.

Just rambling...

@Chinook is an example of how when I talk about preserving the high quality content, I'm not talking about making this an echo chamber. I strongly disagree with a lot of his takes... but they are always thought provoking and always well supported with a good faith effort and argument. I'm guilty of not always treating him with the respect he (and everyone else) deserve, and I regret that, but he brings exactly the kind of content I care about.

Preserving the ability for someone to post "C*** REF CAN DIE IN A FIRE" is waaaaaaay down on the list in terms of what I want for this site, personally.

 

[OK Computer]

It feels like people are defending the idea of moderationless discussion more than the result. Being able to post something like “this team is trash” feels like proof that nothing is being restricted and that they’re free to react in the moment, so it becomes something people want to hold onto.

But in reality, that kind of reactionary posting doesn’t add much value to the forum, and even if it isn’t actively deterring people, it’s also not doing anything to bring in or retain the posters who have more insightful things to say. So the real question is what actually does.

Why wouldn’t we want the doors to be open and welcoming? The people who’ve been here for 20 years won’t always be here, and a healthy forum can’t survive on one new member a month. Life moves on. People have kids, their interests change, some step away for good, some deal with things far more serious. Right now it feels like the forum just continues as-is until those presences fade, and then there’s nothing replacing them.

Take someone like Chinook, who used to be active and isn’t around anymore. What if BatManu or ace stopped posting? Which one of you will step up to fill that void? The answer is probably no one. It would have to be someone new. If new people aren’t coming in and feeling like there’s a place for them, the community doesn’t sustain itself.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

I’ve been in pretty much all of the game threads for just about every regular season game and it’s been good. Really good. Couple little things here and there but nothing major at all. Basically Everybody has done a great job around here.

 

[Correct Crusader]

It feels like people are defending the idea of moderationless discussion more than the result. Being able to post something like “this team is trash” feels like proof that nothing is being restricted and that they’re free to react in the moment, so it becomes something people want to hold onto.

But in reality, that kind of reactionary posting doesn’t add much value to the forum, and even if it isn’t actively deterring people, it’s also not doing anything to bring in or retain the posters who have more insightful things to say. So the real question is what actually does.

Why wouldn’t we want the doors to be open and welcoming? The people who’ve been here for 20 years won’t always be here, and a healthy forum can’t survive on one new member a month. Life moves on. People have kids, their interests change, some step away for good, some deal with things far more serious. Right now it feels like the forum just continues as-is until those presences fade, and then there’s nothing replacing them.

Take someone like Chinook, who used to be active and isn’t around anymore. What if BatManu or ace stopped posting? Which one of you will step up to fill that void? The answer is probably no one. It would have to be someone new. If new people aren’t coming in and feeling like there’s a place for them, the community doesn’t sustain itself.

Pretty sure I'm the youngest person here

 

[Dbreiden83080]

There is only one part of Spurstalk that I really care about preserving which is why I joined the effort to work towards us having a new home: the high quality basketball analysis and discussion. I don't care about any of the rest of it. Some of it, I can tolerate, some of it I could do without, and some of it makes the rest not worth it.

This is exactly why I left ST. And when I discovered this place was getting back to the basics of just great fans talking about basketball. I jumped back in with both feet.

 

[WembyFan]

What do y'all want from us exactly? Feel free to moderate the shit out of this place and ban all the racist losers but you can't tell us to not criticize the players if they're playing like dog shit. That's kinda why we're here because we can't stand reddit bullshit. Good luck with the site, you've maxed out on Spurstalk refugees.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

you can't tell us to not criticize the players if they're playing like dog shit.

I personally can’t imagine anybody here giving De’Aaron Fox one little bit of shit this postseason.

 

[WembyFan]

I personally can’t imagine anybody here giving De’Aaron Fox one little bit of shit this postseason.

Let's hope not but i guess he probably might.

 

[The Ballsbreakers]

It's perfect the way it is.

ST game threads have always been cesspools, a microcosm of the roller-coaster of human emotions that happen in real time during live games. In a bit of a sick way the verbal filth and cliff-jumping that have so far been allowed or tolerated were actually a part of the charm of ST threads, distinguishing it from the staid, overly-regulated confines of such bland forums like Pounding the Rock.

I say this being a part of the emotional vaginas in these threads, who from time to time do get to calm down and observe our conduct from a safe distance. LOL

 

[ambchang]

I personally don’t mind player criticisms, even the odd player x sucks comment, but if there are criticisms I would imagine there should be backup. That said, even the ones with no backup have their place as we are emotional beings, but to do the same thing every other post for a week in a row is just pointless and drags down the quality of the content here.

Sometimes people don’t see any reactions or other chiming in to say player x sucks, so they think nobody else agrees with it, and post it again, and again, and again. At a point it just becomes pointless and grating.

The same goes for player y will be an all star one day. Really bring some back up. It’s just as annoying at the other end of the spectrum, where personal bias just clouds objective evaluation.

We are not all basketball analysts here (I think none of us are), but we are all hardcore basketball fans, so with out experience and decades of observations, we develop invaluable insights that some others can’t see. By bringing that aspect out and engage in discussion is what the forum is for. We could be both wrong, we could be both right, and one side could be right and the other wrong, but that’s not the point, it is to share our bball points of view and allow others to gain that insight overtime.

I have, without a doubt, learned more about bball from a lot of you guys than I have from watching tv analyst, YouTube breakdowns and even playing, because there is interaction and it forces us to dig deeper to prove my point, only to be proven wrong, at which point I learned where my initial standpoint was lacking and as such, learn to add an additional datapoint in my view of future scenarios.

 

[ird80]

As usual I'll be the unpopular voice and say it's not welcoming to the faith community when you allow people to disrespect names Jesus and Christ. Yes God too but I realize it can be used in many contexts like godmode, etc. It's telling that this city has a large faith community and virtually none here. Yall all favor censorship of faith cause you've driven that community out. Fact people can't control their fingers and choose different words is a lack of civilization. If those two names turned into asterisks when used be fine with me till it's under control

 

[The Ballsbreakers]

As usual I'll be the unpopular voice and say it's not welcoming to the faith community when you allow people to disrespect names Jesus and Christ. Yes God too but I realize it can be used in many contexts like godmode, etc. It's telling that this city has a large faith community and virtually none here. Yall all favor censorship of faith cause you've driven that community out. Fact people can't control their fingers and choose different words is a lack of civilization. If those two names turned into asterisks when used be fine with me till it's under control

How the hell do you get a NEGATIVE reaction score?