Misc Play off preview: are game threads slowly becoming a cesspool that need fixing ?

[Weeks]

I mean I honestly don't go back and read comments a lot in game thread so maybe I'm ignorant but is this really a big issue here?

There are definitely a couple of troll posters on here but that kind of adds to the flavor. If I wanted vanilla discussion I'd just go to realgm.

idk sometimes it's pretty entertaining to go back and re-read the thread after a game and watch the ebb and flow of board morale based on what's happening at any given moment. kind of adds flavor to the whole experience

 

[Weeks]

That’s correct - member-wise.

A 12 page thread is driven by how active the existing members are, not by the amount of new members are coming in.

well of course members joining has slowed down - the influx of people abandoning the sinking ship of ST has dried up, and now we're getting more organic and steady growth. plus this board is pretty new, i'm not even sure if it's showing up on spurs search results yet or not

 

[LeBowen]

So what is the solution? Posters can't lament a loss? Only allowed to use a couple negatives per post? I just don't see how we reasonably restrict someone expressing their opinion. I get this is a private forum so we're subject to whatever rules are imposed but there's a fine line between normal moderation and over moderation imo

Regardless I'm not a wrist slitter so whatever decision is rendered won't bother me much tbh

It's not even about the quantity of posts, but the style in which they're written.
Somone who posts that players need to be kicked off the team or worse while we're on one of the hottest runs in franchise history isn't anything but a troll. It's not expressing an opinion, it's having a meltdown and using this place to vent, ruining it for others.
I think of GTs as kind of a virtual living room where we talk about the game live.
If you had a regular group of IRL friends to watch the games together with, don't tell me you wouldn't stop inviting that obnoxious friend who always gets drunk and starts yelling at TV for every mistake.
That's exactly what those trolls feel like to me.

I can ignore them and not engage with them, but that was the ST method since we had no moderation available.
If a decent number of people starts complaining about a few trolls, then we can't ignore that stuff.
I personally don't think anyone has crossed the line and needs to be banned, but a few members have certainly crossed the line of good taste and need to tone it down.

If they want to have a meltdown whenever the Spurs lose a quarter, they can go to twitter. This should be a place for thoughtful, constructive discussion because there are no other places like this on the internet. Which can't be said about places where you can have a meltdown.

 

[OK Computer]

well of course members joining has slowed down - the influx of people abandoning the sinking ship of ST has dried up, and now we're getting more organic and steady growth. plus this board is pretty new, i'm not even sure if it's showing up on spurs search results yet or not

-the “organic and steady growth” is one new member per month for several months now. It’s not healthily growing.
-it is a top result in search engines. People are finding us and not joining.

 

[spurs2112]

So what is the solution? Posters can't lament a loss? Only allowed to use a couple negatives per post? I just don't see how we reasonably restrict someone expressing their opinion. I get this is a private forum so we're subject to whatever rules are imposed but there's a fine line between normal moderation and over moderation imo

Regardless I'm not a wrist slitter so whatever decision is rendered won't bother me much tbh

Exactly. How is this place expected to be policed then? Are we only going to be allowed to say x amount of naughty words? Some words, or sayings are going to be completely excluded because certain members don't like reading them? I really don't see the issue if you can just ignore the content you don't want to partake in.

 

[OK Computer]

Exactly. How is this place expected to be policed then? Are we only going to be allowed to say x amount of naughty words? Some words, or sayings are going to be completely excluded because certain members don't like reading them? I really don't see the issue if you can just ignore the content you don't want to partake in.

No one is suggesting any of this. As I predicted, people will push this into extremes.

There is a reality here no one has been willing to address yet:

1. the website is not growing.
2. We all want it to grow.
3. People have admitted to not going into game threads because it’s toxic
4. The website is being seen in search engines and people still don’t join
5. We can take number 3 and correlate it with 4

 

[Dex]

I don't really find issues with any particular posters or opinions in Game Threads except for maybe a few, but that's what the Ignore feature is for.

I do find the negativity gets to be a bit much if the Spurs aren't comfortably leading by 15+...but that's just the way she goes, eh? If it starts to bother me, I just tune out for a while.

Game Threads are like going out to watch the game at a bar. The experience will be a reflection of the game. If the Spurs are doing poorly, everyone will be bitching and moaning, blaming certain players or refs...and if the Spurs are winning, everyone is high-fiving and sucking each other's proverbial dicks. You're probably surrounded by a lot of opinions you agree with, and maybe a few of people that are yelling at the TV too much or seem to think they know it all.

I don't think there is any way you can police that. It was always that way with SpursTalk, and will probably continue to be so.

 

[BacktoBasics]

I’ve been a big advocate for letting people say whatever it is they want to say but some of you are to the point where the things you post drag down the overall quality of the forum in a significant way.

I think there’s a difference between frustration/productive criticism/good ole fashioned shit talking and the crap that seems to take place in game threads.

Some of you should be embarrassed.

I hate the idea of this place becoming overly moderated. The only way to avoid that is to temper the extreme emotional outbursts. Especially if it’s accompanied with racism or idiotic misogyny.

Stop ruining things for others.

 

[spurs2112]

No one is suggesting any of this. As I predicted, people will push this into extremes.

There is a reality here no one has been willing to address yet:

1. the website is not growing.
2. We all want it to grow.
3. People have admitted to not going into game threads because it’s toxic
4. The website is being seen in search engines and people still don’t join
5. We can take number 3 and correlate it with 4

So what are you proposing as a solution then to curb the "toxicity" some members feel is elevated here other than limiting what people say? Any solution that involves "cutting back on this or that" falls into limiting what people say. I don't see how what I said was extreme.

 

[spursistan]

Weird thread. it just pure excitement after a long playoffs drought. This fanbase-- and its online contingent- is starving because we aren't accustomed to being bad/mediocre for this long-- literally since we entered the league.

 

[OK Computer]

So what are you proposing as a solution then to curb the "toxicity" some members feel is elevated here other than limiting what people say? Any solution that involves "cutting back on this or that" falls into limiting what people say. I don't see how what I said was extreme.

The extreme part of what you said was: “Are we only going to be allowed to say x amount of naughty words? Some words, or sayings are going to be completely excluded because certain members don't like reading them?”. No one is even thinking about approaching that. And no, not every road goes there - another extreme statement. This is what the thread is for though, to discuss what possibilities there are. Saying that there is no solution is not productive.

 

[spurs2112]

The extreme part of what you said was: “Are we only going to be allowed to say x amount of naughty words? Some words, or sayings are going to be completely excluded because certain members don't like reading them?”. No one is even thinking about approaching that. And no, not every road goes there - another extreme statement. This is what the thread is for though, to discuss what possibilities there are. Saying that there is no solution is not productive.

Well that's your opinion and I respect it. This is actually a tough topic because what one finds offensive/toxic another might not. Just need to be careful with over moderation because that can also cause people to leave/not join the site as well.

 

[Itzsoweezee]

No one is suggesting any of this. As I predicted, people will push this into extremes.

There is a reality here no one has been willing to address yet:

1. the website is not growing.
2. We all want it to grow.
3. People have admitted to not going into game threads because it’s toxic
4. The website is being seen in search engines and people still don’t join
5. We can take number 3 and correlate it with 4

You might be better served by mods directly communicating with the people who are being toxic than creating new rules that are always open to interpretation. Regardless, I’m glad you’re gathering the data through this post/poll.

 

[Guru of Nothing]

Just so that it's not lost in this conversation, the moderation level on this site is bare fucking minimum.

 

[OK Computer]

You might be better served by mods directly communicating with the people who are being toxic than creating new rules that are always open to interpretation. Regardless, I’m glad you’re gathering the data through this post/poll.

Yes, and I don’t disagree with this method. People need to know that currently it takes several steps to get to the point where they need to be talked to. It’s quite relaxed and if the bear is constantly being poked, then a community thread like this one is needed to get everyone together and talk about it.

 

[scott]

So what is the solution? Posters can't lament a loss? Only allowed to use a couple negatives per post? I just don't see how we reasonably restrict someone expressing their opinion. I get this is a private forum so we're subject to whatever rules are imposed but there's a fine line between normal moderation and over moderation imo

Regardless I'm not a wrist slitter so whatever decision is rendered won't bother me much tbh

The solution is for people to behave with a modicum of emotional maturity. That doesn't mean posting need follow Roberts Rules of Order or anything like that... but just act like a normal person would in public. The anonymity of the internet brings out the worst in certain people, and it is a major turnoff for a lot of people, we only need look at our former home to see what eventually happens when a basic standard of decency is not upheld.

I don't think anyone is interested in turning this it Sniffer Central, but there is a clear bright line between that and what I would consider to be shitposting. There are, in fact, a lot of what I consider to be high quality posters who have directly communicated to me that they aren't visiting/posting as often as they thought they would because the toxicity of our former home is starting to creep in. And I'll tell you this much right now, if it came down to it, I'd much rather have their well thought out posts here (and that doesn't mean they are ones I agree with) than a bunch of shit posts.

You are 100% right though, that there is a fine line between normal moderation and over moderation - and that is not lost on the people who have spent a great deal of time and effort deliberating and devising our ground rules. Things would be a lot easier if everyone could just be cool and act like normal, mature adults... but that's proven challenging. In the last week I've had to warn several people about the use of bigoted language and I've even had one poster (who I otherwise like) acknowledge that he KNEW he was saying something he shouldn't by saying "[bigoted language] scott please don't ban me I just had to get one out". It's frankly, absurd.

I've already said more than I planned to - but I'll get one last thing out. The users of this forum need to realize that this site's infrastructure does not run itself. One person, @Guru of Nothing, had enough initiative to actually stand this site up after years of a lot of talk but no action at ST. A handful of people funded a year's worth of service for this site in our crowdfunding campaign (to which I'm still in awe of and extremely grateful for). A handful of us do the work to make sure the site stays functional. As we saw with ST, there is a point where none of that becomes worth it anymore. I, for one, would rather not test what that point is.

 

[NotRobDiaz21]

 

[brazil]

Weird thread. it just pure excitement after a long playoffs drought. This fanbase-- and its online contingent- is starving because we aren't accustomed to being bad/mediocre for this long-- literally since we entered the league.

Why weird ?

I think one of ST issues was that they were close to 0 discussion about the forum, what people like or don't like.. and even when there were some new owners were doing shit about it. I think a lot of what has been achieved with this forum is by listening, implementing some basic rules and twisting it when needed to create the best place possible where everybody can contribute, find information and enjoy.

The thread is about understanding if there is an issue, what is the size of it and what can be done about it. A lot apparently was not even aware that the GTs became a no go area for some of the regular posters. If the very existence of the thread can bring awareness and help tune down a bit the wrists cutting, name callings and such in particular during the POs where excitement and frustration will be at their maximum it is worth it. GTs are a watching a game at a bar experience but even at a bar you use a minimum of civility

 

[SpurSpike]

This sites main goal i don't think is to grow as large as possible so growing the site is a weak argument for increased moderation. I would rather have a small site of dedicated users than a large site or not so dedicated users. If I wanted a huge site with heavy moderation I'd just go to the reddit game thread tbh.

 

[scott]

Sorry... I'll add ONE MORE thing...

I appreciate that we can have this conversation like normal, mature adults. It shows me we are capable and I am grateful for those participating.

The main ground rule that everything else is based on here is "don't be a dick" - and I'd like if we could self-police ourselves to stay true to that mantra. But I think we also have to acknowledge that we won't always be able to, and that is where the stubby fingers of the "law" come into play.

I think one way you can think of it is like this: if you are objectively making this site a less enjoyable place for others, then this is not the place for you and you are not welcome. There are many posters who I pretty much disagree with about 70% of the time... but behind the scenes I've been a big defender of them, because they at least bring the goods when they post what is, in my opinion, a terrible take. And someone else may find that to be a great take. That's what makes this place great. That's not what we are talking about here.

 

[brazil]

 

[Weeks]

-the “organic and steady growth” is one new member per month for several months now. It’s not healthily growing.
-it is a top result in search engines. People are finding us and not joining.

well we're never going to be able to compete with reddit, which is where most people go in lieu of forums these days. i don't really think it's anything about the people on this website keeping others away, but maybe i'm wrong. i always enjoyed the special flavor of posting that you couldn't really find anywhere else, i'm not talking about the rampant trolling that infested and ruined ST, but yes I for one find the occasional meltdown or venting amusing or entertaining, especially as i know it's generally just in the heat of the moment. i can relate to that sort of emotional turmoil and getting that caught up in a game.
maybe some tweaks can be made here and there, i certainly don't like seeing bigotry or hatefulness, but, at the same time, i don't want to change the vibe of this place to attract people who aren't about that vibe.

 

[O_V]

That's the thing.
If a lot of members are dropping out because a few annoying ones, then it has to be sorted out.

I said it before, there's a big difference between a reactionary post when someone fucks up and members that just keep piling on one awful post after another while having a mental breakdown because our lead dropped from 20 to 10 points against a tanking team.

No, I mean the people that go nuts because Bismack Biambo can't play anymore because he's old and they think that that's going to have some effect on a fucking championship caliber team just rubs me the wrong way but it's not the person's fault that they have a stupid opinion or get worked up because the grizzlies starters cut a 28 point lead to 13.

Look, we've cut out a lot of shit from Old School Spurs talk, but people need to be allowed to be angry and get into fights, and if they keep it in the game threads, that seems fine to me.

 

[LeBowen]

No, I mean the people that go nuts because Bismack Biambo can't play anymore because he's old and they think that that's going to have some effect on a fucking championship caliber team just rubs me the wrong way but it's not the person's fault that they have a stupid opinion or get worked up because the grizzlies starters cut a 28 point lead to 13.

What do you mean it's not their fault?
It's absolutely their fault. As someone said, don't behave the way you wouldn't behave in public.
I think that the average age of this community is well over 30 and if people can't keep their emotions in check...idk.

Look, we've cut out a lot of shit from Old School Spurs talk, but people need to be allowed to be angry and get into fights, and if they keep it in the game threads, that seems fine to me.

Yeah, I'm good with getting into arguments over different takes, I'm not good with someone posting our players should kill themselves after a bad play or two.

See, this is what we're talking about.
You're one of the biggest offenders and reasons for this topic and you're playing dumb, even rubbing it in.
You're not an idiot and you very well know what you're doing.

One look at your post history in GTs makes it obvious you're the textbook example of what we don't want to have in here.

 

[O_V]

If we have a lot of members that don't bother with game threads because of suicide squad in wrist-slitting mode, then it's an issue.
I can't even imagine what would GT look like if we drop a home game against the Blazers.

Except that sports fans bitch about calls, even when they're not bad calls. They bitch about free throw disparity, even though there's a reason for fucking free throw disparity. They whine about 50-50 calls, they whine about bad luck, they whine about everything because we are fans and that's what we do. If they do it in the game thread where you're supposed to be emotional and then they don't carry it out to the other threads where we're actually talking about things, there's not a problem.

We have an ignore list for a reason. If somebody really gets on your nerves, put them on the fucking ignore list. It's super easy.

Now, that said, if there's a back and forth where people are shitting all over the thread because they're going head to head and tit for tat about stupid crap, those people should be the equivalent of a pinking. There should be a way that both of them can be put on ignore or put on an hour probation and told that they need to stop doing that shit.