Player Harper vs Edgecomb vs Bailey vs WNBA

VJ had an awesome debut yesterday, looked very comfortable in a higher usage than expected role. Playing 42 minutes and taking 26 shots is going to make the counting stats look great, admittedly. Didn’t VJ have serious concerns about his finishing at the rim? Especially for someone with his athletic profile?

Harper was firmly the consensus 2nd pick due to his size and handle and the potential to be an offensive engine down the road. I actually expect their 3 pt shooting to be very similar this year if Harper doesn’t spam too many off the dribble or step back pull ups (which we should be able to generate better offense than that).
 
dn0774 said:
VJ had an awesome debut yesterday, looked very comfortable in a higher usage than expected role. Playing 42 minutes and taking 26 shots is going to make the counting stats look great, admittedly. Didn’t VJ have serious concerns about his finishing at the rim? Especially for someone with his athletic profile?

Harper was firmly the consensus 2nd pick due to his size and handle and the potential to be an offensive engine down the road. I actually expect their 3 pt shooting to be very similar this year if Harper doesn’t spam too many off the dribble or step back pull ups (which we should be able to generate better offense than that).
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VJ looks to be shooting 3s while Harper still looks scared to shoot. The difference between the two games offensively is wide in that regard. Both got to the rim easily and finished in traffic.

But VJ looked for his middie and he also let the 3 ball fly. I don’t think Harper is ever going to shoot 13 threes in a game or even make 5 in a game. He doesn’t have that shooters mentality.

And who gives a flip about college? Lanes are clogged. Zone defense everywhere and completely different play styles. If VJ hits 3s at this level then he is going to thrive bc nobody can stay in front of him. And he has insane athleticism and can finish at the rim
 
KobesAchilles said:
VJ looks to be shooting 3s while Harper still looks scared to shoot. The difference between the two games offensively is wide in that regard. Both got to the rim easily and finished in traffic.

But VJ looked for his middie and he also let the 3 ball fly. I don’t think Harper is ever going to shoot 13 threes in a game or even make 5 in a game. He doesn’t have that shooters mentality.

And who gives a flip about college? Lanes are clogged. Zone defense everywhere and completely different play styles. If VJ hits 3s at this level then he is going to thrive bc nobody can stay in front of him. And he has insane athleticism and can finish at the rim
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One is on a shite team with a solid green light to do whatever. Dylan has a role he has to grow into before he breaks out.
 
KobesAchilles said:
VJ looks to be shooting 3s while Harper still looks scared to shoot. The difference between the two games offensively is wide in that regard. Both got to the rim easily and finished in traffic.

But VJ looked for his middie and he also let the 3 ball fly. I don’t think Harper is ever going to shoot 13 threes in a game or even make 5 in a game. He doesn’t have that shooters mentality.

And who gives a flip about college? Lanes are clogged. Zone defense everywhere and completely different play styles. If VJ hits 3s at this level then he is going to thrive bc nobody can stay in front of him. And he has insane athleticism and can finish at the rim
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Dismissing college entirely “just because”? They were drafted to entirely different situations/roles, comparing their early returns is of course going to favor whichever player gets more minutes and usage. Harper has no problem letting it fly but he is clearly expected to orchestrate the offense in his minutes which is notoriously ugly for young guards.

You say he has insane athleticism and can finish at the rim yet VJ had bad rim finishing numbers in college against far inferior athletes/rim protectors despite being an elite athlete himself. I expect that to continue at the NBA level for the near future. I say this as someone who likes VJ. I am happy that VJ offensively looks to be further along than what was expected.
 
Correct Crusader said:
One is on a shite team with a solid green light to do whatever. Dylan has a role he has to grow into before he breaks out.
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How do you know Philly is a shit team? Embiid is back. Maxey is an all star. VJ looks good. And Oubre and Barlow seem to be good fits alongside VJ. I fully expect them to make the playoffs this year.

Also in college, Harper was the one on the shit team that had the green light to do whatever he wanted. And everyone still loved his game. While VJ was on a good team that had to play his role. Seems hypocritical to use that against him now
 
dn0774 said:
Dismissing college entirely “just because”? They were drafted to entirely different situations/roles, comparing their early returns is of course going to favor whichever player gets more minutes and usage. Harper has no problem letting it fly but he is clearly expected to orchestrate the offense in his minutes which is notoriously ugly for young guards.

You say he has insane athleticism and can finish at the rim yet VJ had bad rim finishing numbers in college against far inferior athletes/rim protectors despite being an elite athlete himself. I expect that to continue at the NBA level for the near future. I say this as someone who likes VJ. I am happy that VJ offensively looks to be further along than what was expected.
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Harper has no problem letting it fly? Really? That’s what you got from his game. You think the dude is going to shoot double digit 3s anytime soon? Even with a green light Harper isn’t going to do that. He isn’t a shooter. He’s going to attack the rim only. I don’t blame him since he can only make wide open 3s.

And college and the NBA are so different that it doesn’t matter most of the time. D-Book averaged like 12 points a game in college. Now he averages 26. The spacing in the pros is way better than college. It’s easier to get to the rim in the NBA than it is in college due to pace of play, style of play, and lack of zones everywhere. VJ will finish just fine in the NBA. Dude was making contested layups rather easily last night. He will be fine. For some reason you’re using his college profile against his actual professional games and it makes no sense. Jimmer averaged 38 in college. Who gives a fuck.

Also VJ (if we drafted him) is good enough to start over Vassell. Why wasn’t Harper starting last night? Fox is out. We drafted him to be our PG. why play Castle over him? Bc the Spurs say he isn’t ready. Why is Philly starting VJ? Bc they think he is ready. They aren’t a shitty team like you say they are
 
KobesAchilles said:
Harper has no problem letting it fly? Really? That’s what you got from his game. You think the dude is going to shoot double digit 3s anytime soon? Even with a green light Harper isn’t going to do that. He isn’t a shooter. He’s going to attack the rim only. I don’t blame him since he can only make wide open 3s.

And college and the NBA are so different that it doesn’t matter most of the time. D-Book averaged like 12 points a game in college. Now he averages 26. The spacing in the pros is way better than college. It’s easier to get to the rim in the NBA than it is in college due to pace of play, style of play, and lack of zones everywhere. VJ will finish just fine in the NBA. Dude was making contested layups rather easily last night. He will be fine. For some reason you’re using his college profile against his actual professional games and it makes no sense. Jimmer averaged 38 in college. Who gives a fuck.

Also VJ (if we drafted him) is good enough to start over Vassell. Why wasn’t Harper starting last night? Fox is out. We drafted him to be our PG. why play Castle over him? Bc the Spurs say he isn’t ready. Why is Philly starting VJ? Bc they think he is ready. They aren’t a shitty team like you say they are
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I said Sixers are shitty? Huh? Embiid is cooked, he can't do big man stuff anymore but in the east they can still be solid but not a threat to Cleveland/NY/Orl.

Dude if you want to overreact to single games that's fine, I just watched Aaron Gordon turn into Steph Curry so clearly that will happen for the rest of the season. Wemby bout to avg 40 this year too. I think Harper could've started (in Fox's absence) had his thumb injury not happened but the surgery set him back so its impossible to answer. He wasn't even cleared for contact until 2 weeks ago. James Harden must not have been good enough to start for OKC back in the day either, right? Manu as well? More thought goes into the starters than just choosing the best 5. Mitch wants some on ball juice off the bench so Harper it is. Vassell isn't someone who can come in and initiate offense. Who knows, maybe Harper isn't either. Guess we'll find out.

Obviously college is crazy different from the NBA and it is easier to put up gaudy stats in the NBA with the green light and better spacing, all I am saying is rim finishing numbers are something that absolutely translate between college and the pros. Maybe VJ had an incredible off season and significantly improved that aspect of his game, 1 game isn't going to answer that.

VJ's professional gameS? You mean his 1 game? His preseason was meh not that it means much, he only played well against the Minny C-Team. Anointing VJ the 2nd coming of Ant based on 1 game where he got 42 minutes of run and 26 shots is certainly a choice. You're acting like he was 19-26 or some crazy shit, he shot 50%, cool.

I have no idea what Harper is going to do a week, a month, or a year from now and neither do you. I hope he isn't just launching 3s at that rate because unlike you apparently I don't think that would be a good thing.

Call your shot, Edgecombe gonna be RotY? Looks like he will have all the minutes and usage to do it.
 
KobesAchilles said:
How do you know Philly is a shit team? Embiid is back. Maxey is an all star. VJ looks good. And Oubre and Barlow seem to be good fits alongside VJ. I fully expect them to make the playoffs this year.

Also in college, Harper was the one on the shit team that had the green light to do whatever he wanted. And everyone still loved his game. While VJ was on a good team that had to play his role. Seems hypocritical to use that against him now
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They are likely a shit team. Did you not see Embiid out there? the guy is borderline paraplegic. he is done done.
 
Em-City said:
They are likely a shit team. Did you not see Embiid out there? the guy is borderline paraplegic. he is done done.
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Watching him try to move was painful. I still wouldn't be surprised if figures out how to be effective on offense with his limitations, but is it worth it if he can't provide any defensive resistance and can only get rebounds that fall into his lap? A big man who can't do big man things just doesn't seem worth having on the court.

The East is so bad and filled with tanker teams that I still expect Philly to be at least a play-in team assuming relative health from Maxey/VJ/McCain.
 
scott said:
We took Castle and Harper instead. I'm not loosing any sleep.
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To be fair, we took Castle at 4 when they took McCain at 14, Vassell at 11 when they took Maxey at 20, Harper at 2 (consensus pick) when they took VJ at 3 (non consensus pick), signed Justin Edwards undrafted... overall I'd rate their scouting pretty high, higher than the Spurs.
 
dn0774 said:
I said Sixers are shitty? Huh? Embiid is cooked, he can't do big man stuff anymore but in the east they can still be solid but not a threat to Cleveland/NY/Orl.

Dude if you want to overreact to single games that's fine, I just watched Aaron Gordon turn into Steph Curry so clearly that will happen for the rest of the season. Wemby bout to avg 40 this year too. I think Harper could've started (in Fox's absence) had his thumb injury not happened but the surgery set him back so its impossible to answer. He wasn't even cleared for contact until 2 weeks ago. James Harden must not have been good enough to start for OKC back in the day either, right? Manu as well? More thought goes into the starters than just choosing the best 5. Mitch wants some on ball juice off the bench so Harper it is. Vassell isn't someone who can come in and initiate offense. Who knows, maybe Harper isn't either. Guess we'll find out.

Obviously college is crazy different from the NBA and it is easier to put up gaudy stats in the NBA with the green light and better spacing, all I am saying is rim finishing numbers are something that absolutely translate between college and the pros. Maybe VJ had an incredible off season and significantly improved that aspect of his game, 1 game isn't going to answer that.

VJ's professional gameS? You mean his 1 game? His preseason was meh not that it means much, he only played well against the Minny C-Team. Anointing VJ the 2nd coming of Ant based on 1 game where he got 42 minutes of run and 26 shots is certainly a choice. You're acting like he was 19-26 or some crazy shit, he shot 50%, cool.

I have no idea what Harper is going to do a week, a month, or a year from now and neither do you. I hope he isn't just launching 3s at that rate because unlike you apparently I don't think that would be a good thing.

Call your shot, Edgecombe gonna be RotY? Looks like he will have all the minutes and usage to do it.
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I’m not basing it on the results of his game but rather how Edgecomb actually played and how Harper plays.
I’ve already said that Edgecomb is going to be the best player from this draft (better than Flagg as well) since I have him as an Ant Edwards talent.

Harper is very good at getting to the rim. He can run the pick n roll quite well. But I don’t think he’s ever going to be a shooter. And if he does become one it probably won’t be until like year 6-7. Shooting isn’t just about form but a mindset. And Harper has the mindset of getting to the rim.

I was very impressed with how Edgecomb played. He wasn’t stagnant on offense. He was moving without the ball. He watched his defender and slid to spots where he would be open to shoot. That’s a talent in itself. He finished over people and finished in traffic. But he was able to get there with ease. That is also a talent. He is the most athletic guy on the court. And it’s a different athletic than a Westbrook. He can change gears, it’s not just 100% balls to the wall. That’s very impressive to me too.

And his shot looks good and confident. I don’t know how well he’s going to shoot his rookie year from 3, but the fact is that he’s willing to shoot and his form looks good and that’s all I want from a rookie.

Also Manu wasn’t good enough to start as a rookie and neither was Harden. And Harden had two all stars in front of him who demanded the ball while we just have one.
 
KobesAchilles said:
I’m not basing it on the results of his game but rather how Edgecomb actually played and how Harper plays.
I’ve already said that Edgecomb is going to be the best player from this draft (better than Flagg as well) since I have him as an Ant Edwards talent.

Harper is very good at getting to the rim. He can run the pick n roll quite well. But I don’t think he’s ever going to be a shooter. And if he does become one it probably won’t be until like year 6-7. Shooting isn’t just about form but a mindset. And Harper has the mindset of getting to the rim.

I was very impressed with how Edgecomb played. He wasn’t stagnant on offense. He was moving without the ball. He watched his defender and slid to spots where he would be open to shoot. That’s a talent in itself. He finished over people and finished in traffic. But he was able to get there with ease. That is also a talent. He is the most athletic guy on the court. And it’s a different athletic than a Westbrook. He can change gears, it’s not just 100% balls to the wall. That’s very impressive to me too.

And his shot looks good and confident. I don’t know how well he’s going to shoot his rookie year from 3, but the fact is that he’s willing to shoot and his form looks good and that’s all I want from a rookie.

Also Manu wasn’t good enough to start as a rookie and neither was Harden. And Harden had two all stars in front of him who demanded the ball while we just have one.
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Fair enough, you're super high on VJ and that is fine. He is a high character guy who works hard as hell, good combo going forward. Can't wait to see what kind of season he puts together.

Worth mentioning Harden was absolutely good enough to start (he was behind Sefalosha, not Westbrook/Durant), OKC just preferred to have a 3 and D in that spot. Harden in year 1 was a net positive player. Manu and SJax were very similar in impact in '03 and I believe the SJax got the starting nod due to his corporate knowledge from being with the Spurs the prior year. My only point is that starting vs not starting is not in itself indicative of being good enough or not, lots of other factors at play.
 
Is Embiid like done done? Are his knees too far gone? Or is there hope he returns back to near form? Bc if so then they are a title contender this season. It’s really just the Knicks and the Cavs this year
 
KobesAchilles said:
Is Embiid like done done? Are his knees too far gone? Or is there hope he returns back to near form? Bc if so then they are a title contender this season. It’s really just the Knicks and the Cavs this year
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He said it himself the other day he doesn't really feel better.
He's done.
 
Is this the thread to talk rookies in general?

I wanted Coward so bad with our 2nd lottery pick. He would have been our 3 for the next 15 years He would already be starting for us. Fuck the Grizzlies, tbh.

 
ird80 said:
We need 76ers scouting staff, first mccain now vj...they're gonna be loaded when healthy
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McCain I'll give you Edgecombe was a consensus top 5 pick and after Bailey's pre-draft shenanigans he was an easy choice for them at 3.
 
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