NBA 2025-26 NBA Thread

Spurs Starting Lineup: K Bates Diop - M Branham - T Jones - R Langford - S Mamukelashvili

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Key difference being that I don't blame the teams for doing it, I blame the league for not having a better lottery system and punishments for blatant tanking.

I posted Markkanen stats a handful of times this season, they're a .500 team when he plays starter minutes. Spurs didn't have a max contract player when the tank reached it's peak.

Teams (and players) do everything in their power to gain an advantage, it's up to the league to figure it out...but the league isn't even punishing blatantly illegal shit like Ballmer's tree planting company.
 
Key difference being that I don't blame the teams for doing it, I blame the league for not having a better lottery system and punishments for blatant tanking.

I posted Markkanen stats a handful of times this season, they're a .500 team when he plays starter minutes. Spurs didn't have a max contract player when the tank reached it's peak.

Teams (and players) do everything in their power to gain an advantage, it's up to the league to figure it out...but the league isn't even punishing blatantly illegal shit like Ballmer's tree planting company.
This is what I see folks (like you) say... but who cares? The Spurs not having any good players was their choice, just like the Jazz sitting their good players is a choice. These are both proactive choices their respective teams made. They're effectively the same thing.

And ultimately... again, who cares? If fans of the Jazz and Kings don't like this... they'll respond with their wallets, just like Spurs fans did in the dark years when the stadium wasn't nearly as full and surely concessions and merch sales were down. That's the true cost of tanking. Clubs have decided it is a price they're willing to pay and fans have repeatedly proven they are quick to forgive the sins of the past once the team is good again.

The only "better lottery systems" that truly eliminate tanking are the ones like @JMarkJohns suggested, but no one actually wants that because every single major American sport is based upon a system where the worst teams can get better and giving the worst teams the best incoming players is the best way to do that.

At the end of the day - people should just realize there isn't really a happy middle ground. All of the "fix tanking" ideas being thrown really just shift the tanking and gaming of system, but they won't eliminate it. I'm going to be laughing my ass off when whatever they try fails to achieve the stated "fix tanking" objective. The real choice is this: do we want a system that helps the worst teams get better, or do you want a system that completely eliminates tanking? Because it's an either or.

Lastly, the whole conversation is most hilarious to me because there seems to be momentum behind "flatten the odds" but ironically, the last time we flatted the odds was supposedly to eliminate tanking and all it did was create the tanking we are now trying to eliminate :st-lol:. Every single outcome is easily modeled out to see the outcomes as actors respond to incentives... this isn't even that complex of a game.
 
This is what I see folks (like you) say... but who cares? The Spurs not having any good players was their choice, just like the Jazz sitting their good players is a choice. These are both proactive choices their respective teams made. They're effectively the same thing.

And ultimately... again, who cares? If fans of the Jazz and Kings don't like this... they'll respond with their wallets, just like Spurs fans did in the dark years when the stadium wasn't nearly as full and surely concessions and merch sales were down. That's the true cost of tanking. Clubs have decided it is a price they're willing to pay and fans have repeatedly proven they are quick to forgive the sins of the past once the team is good again.

The only "better lottery systems" that truly eliminate tanking are the ones like @JMarkJohns suggested, but no one actually wants that because every single major American sport is based upon a system where the worst teams can get better and giving the worst teams the best incoming players is the best way to do that.

At the end of the day - people should just realize there isn't really a happy middle ground. All of the "fix tanking" ideas being thrown really just shift the tanking and gaming of system, but they won't eliminate it. I'm going to be laughing my ass off when whatever they try fails to achieve the stated "fix tanking" objective. The real choice is this: do we want a system that helps the worst teams get better, or do you want a system that completely eliminates tanking? Because it's an either or.

Lastly, the whole conversation is most hilarious to me because there seems to be momentum behind "flatten the odds" but ironically, the last time we flatted the odds was supposedly to eliminate tanking and all it did was create the tanking we are now trying to eliminate :st-lol:. Every single outcome is easily modeled out to see the outcomes as actors respond to incentives... this isn't even that complex of a game.
Yeah. I don’t want that. I’ve just read articles and that seems like the only actual fix to address games played, and obvious tanking.

It would be somewhat randomized and not in a descending order or anything. But it still not only upheaves year to year improvement as we know it, but the risk of trades 1sts becomes greater so could end up with fewer trades 1sts.
 
Yeah. I don’t want that. I’ve just read articles and that seems like the only actual fix to address games played, and obvious tanking.

It would be somewhat randomized and not in a descending order or anything. But it still not only upheaves year to year improvement as we know it, but the risk of trades 1sts becomes greater so could end up with fewer trades 1sts.
Yep, exactly. Ideas like the one you provided could absolutely "fix tanking"... it just have the side effect of everyone hating the results :st-lol:
 
Teams (and players) do everything in their power to gain an advantage, it's up to the league to figure it out...but the league isn't even punishing blatantly illegal shit like Ballmer's tree planting company.
Ballmer is rich enough to be above the law, of course nothing is going to be done to him.
 
It's amazing how you guys claim to be fans, but don't even fucking understand the things that hurt fans.

Tanking hurts fans because fans pay money to go see the good players play, and tanking teams don't play the good players.

If Bam goes for 83 fucking points, he's in the whole game. The fans love that. It was great spectacle, if not great basketball.
 
It's amazing how you guys claim to be fans, but don't even fucking understand the things that hurt fans.

Tanking hurts fans because fans pay money to go see the good players play, and tanking teams don't play the good players.

If Bam goes for 83 fucking points, he's in the whole game. The fans love that. It was great spectacle, if not great basketball.
I don't feel too hurt after tanking got the Spurs Wemby, Castle, and Harper.
 
It's amazing how you guys claim to be fans, but don't even fucking understand the things that hurt fans.

Tanking hurts fans because fans pay money to go see the good players play, and tanking teams don't play the good players.

If Bam goes for 83 fucking points, he's in the whole game. The fans love that. It was great spectacle, if not great basketball.
Miami's headed for their 4th straight year of the play-in. The Spurs tanking set them up for a potential title run.

As someone who watched every single one of those tanking Spurs games... I'll take the tanking.
 
Miami's headed for their 4th straight year of the play-in. The Spurs tanking set them up for a potential title run.

As someone who watched every single one of those tanking Spurs games... I'll take the tanking.

But Spurs never really tanked the way other teams did. They traded their best players away and was forced to start the likes of Diop, while OKC had SGA and still was losing big time. Detroit had Cade, and all of a sudden he’s balling?? We had Sochan, Blake, Malaki, Tre, Collins, etc., only Vassell and KJ are left. It’s fortunate they got Wemby, but I would argue the Spurs did it right so they were rewarded by the basketball gods
 
[Charania] Just in: The NBA will hold a vote at the Board of Governors meetings March 24-25 to explore adding expansion teams exclusively in Las Vegas and Seattle, with the two franchises targeted for the 2028-29 season, sources tell ESPN. There is momentum for stakeholders to approve surveying what industry executives project will be bids in the $7-to-$10 billion range for each team.
This first vote will allow the league to explore purchase processes for Las Vegas and Seattle. There will then be a potential final vote later in the year to finalize transactions to 32 teams -- if bids reach necessary threshold. In both voting rounds, 23 of 30 governors must vote in favor.
Fire up the expansion draft threads.
 
Miami's headed for their 4th straight year of the play-in. The Spurs tanking set them up for a potential title run.

As someone who watched every single one of those tanking Spurs games... I'll take the tanking.
Yeah that's a horrible place to be in. I wanted the Spurs to tank as soon as Leonard forced his way out and it's why I was desperately hoping to trade him to Sacramento for the #2 pick for Doncic. Guess that was unrealistic but damn I was also livid they didn't tank in 21-22 for Holmgren. Of course that was when all I knew about Wemby was a couple of highlight vids I had seen when he was barely getting playing time on Tony Parker's team.
 
I have no problems with players stat-padding as anyone in attendance would want to see a piece of history, the NBA is ultimately entertainment. Besides, Miami didn't intentionally foul to get the ball back until the last little bit of the game, which was what the Spurs did for the Admiral to get 71 points back in the day. The entire thing was even remotely controversial, IMO, is because Kobe was involved and those guys sounding off were Kobestans. It was a non-record to begin with, and who wouldn't go for that record when they were that hot? Nobody said a peep when the 6ers left Embiid in the game up 15 points with 2 minutes to go and got 70. Likewise, nobody paid any attention when Booker scored 70 on 26 FTs in a 10pt loss (down almost 30 in the 2nd quarter), and left him in until the last second even though they were down 14 with less than 2 minutes to go. who scored 6 points on FTs in the last minute and another 8 points on FGs in the last two minutes of the game.

Tanking I am generally not a fan of when teams sit stars for bogus reasons. Only reason is because people paid money to see them, and the teams screw them over for it. If you trade away players to suck and tank, sure, fair game, having star players, then pull them last minute is bait-and-switch. I am on the fence about how the Spurs tanked the last few years, by running non-sensical plays and turned it into a playground ball so they would lose more than necessary. Most fans wouldn't be able to tell the difference as casuals only see a bunch of high level athlete's runnig around, scoring and blocking shots, but knowledgeable basketball fans who wanted to pay money to watch good basketball would be shafted.

Just my $0.02.
 
But Spurs never really tanked the way other teams did. They traded their best players away and was forced to start the likes of Diop, while OKC had SGA and still was losing big time. Detroit had Cade, and all of a sudden he’s balling?? We had Sochan, Blake, Malaki, Tre, Collins, etc., only Vassell and KJ are left. It’s fortunate they got Wemby, but I would argue the Spurs did it right so they were rewarded by the basketball gods
Again... who cares? The result was the same - a horrible team that lost 75% of its games. Why is the GM doing the tanking better than the coach doing the tanking? They're both tanking. You could make an argument that the way the Spurs did it is even more egregious - they put together a roster that was ONLY capable of tanking. At least Utah had a chance to be good, but when they weren't good enough they decided tanking was the way to go.

Spurs fans absolving themselves of tank guilt is hilarious (not to mention how we tanked for another year after getting Wemby to get Castle. Landing Harper was just lotto luck).
 
Fire up the expansion draft threads.
Interesting to me that the league has apparently already decided that it's Seattle and Vegas... which is logical, but I at least expected some sort of process for other cities to submit bids. Maybe the league wants to protect itself from having to have a hard conversation about taking $5B from Seattle or $18B from CDMX before they are ready to consider Mexico.

I have some fairly loose "sources" on the business side of the league and they tell me there is already an ownership group in Seattle in place and they're already in the process of making early pitches to sponsors (that's how it came up to me).
 
Again... who cares? The result was the same - a horrible team that lost 75% of its games. Why is the GM doing the tanking better than the coach doing the tanking? They're both tanking. You could make an argument that the way the Spurs did it is even more egregious - they put together a roster that was ONLY capable of tanking. At least Utah had a chance to be good, but when they weren't good enough they decided tanking was the way to go.

Spurs fans absolving themselves of tank guilt is hilarious (not to mention how we tanked for another year after getting Wemby to get Castle. Landing Harper was just lotto luck).
Harper was the reward for a tank too by having Fox get season ending surgery on his hand like three weeks after Wemby's DVT.
 
I have some fairly loose "sources" on the business side of the league and they tell me there is already an ownership group in Seattle in place and they're already in the process of making early pitches to sponsors (that's how it came up to me).
Glad to hear. I remember a couple of months ago Bill Simmons was saying there was no shortage of groups ready to invest in a Vegas team but that no one had stepped up to the plate for Seattle.
 
Harper was the reward for a tank too by having Fox get season ending surgery on his hand like three weeks after Wemby's DVT.
Surely you aren't suggesting that the Spurs shutting down Fox and starting Bismack Biyombo at C was anything other than a quest to compete?!?!?!
 
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