Player The unfortunately low-ceilinged Shaolin monastery of Victor Wembanyama

[Limguoguolo]

Last year, Victor shot three-pointers far too often. It was clearly a learning curve, a way of letting him find his feet and providing the coaching staff with a wealth of useful statistics for his current three-point shot selection: where and when to take them. Regardless of his current percentage, I assume that, thanks to the data provided last year, he now has a certain ease in knowing when and where to take these shots.

I am convinced that, in a way, this kind of Giannis-like situation, charging headfirst like a ram to try to move a defender he can't get past with a drive, is just as much a freedom given to Victor to see if he can find his own comfort zone and recognize, through persistence and experimentation in this very specific area, for years to come.

Next year it will probably be something else. They need to find Victor's strengths in every possible position to make him as complete a player as possible. As with CB, however, I think these experiments should now be limited. If I remember correctly, these situations mainly occurred at the start of the game. After that, he shot from the perimeter like KD and finished plays near the basket.

According to the stats given above, his turnovers still seem limited. If he's allowed to take these risks at the start of the game or when the team has a big lead, that seems normal to me. In the Cup semifinals and finals, I don't remember him attempting this kind of play. They were probably already in efficiency mode, playing strictly to their strengths, no risks.

As for weight, imagine hyperextending the knee with an extra 40 pounds in the upper body. The only area where I think it's possible to gain muscle mass is in his legs and ass, but only if it doesn't affect his flexibility and if that mass isn't dangerous for his ankles. At 7 feet 5 inches, he probably can't be built like Giannis without causing problems for his ankles.

It is this uncertainty that must lead the staff to be so cautious. You make diagnoses or physical programs based on data. Victor is outside the data. So here too, it's not science, but experimentation. Giannis isn't the first person of his build and height to gain so much muscle mass. The future of the Spurs for the next ten years depends on Victor's health. No one wants to see at what temperature this big kernel of corn turns into popcorn. So we're keeping him warm enough without toasting him. Victor must not Pop.

 

[PanameSpur]

Dear god, you are a fucking moron tbh.. I guess every forum needs his moron, congrats for the title

He was spamming the same bs post in different threads

He's owns some of the worst takes ever, A real idiot.

 

[PanameSpur]

Last year, Victor shot three-pointers far too often. It was clearly a learning curve, a way of letting him find his feet and providing the coaching staff with a wealth of useful statistics for his current three-point shot selection: where and when to take them. Regardless of his current percentage, I assume that, thanks to the data provided last year, he now has a certain ease in knowing when and where to take these shots.

I am convinced that, in a way, this kind of Giannis-like situation, charging headfirst like a ram to try to move a defender he can't get past with a drive, is just as much a freedom given to Victor to see if he can find his own comfort zone and recognize, through persistence and experimentation in this very specific area, for years to come.

Next year it will probably be something else. They need to find Victor's strengths in every possible position to make him as complete a player as possible. As with CB, however, I think these experiments should now be limited. If I remember correctly, these situations mainly occurred at the start of the game. After that, he shot from the perimeter like KD and finished plays near the basket.

According to the stats given above, his turnovers still seem limited. If he's allowed to take these risks at the start of the game or when the team has a big lead, that seems normal to me. In the Cup semifinals and finals, I don't remember him attempting this kind of play. They were probably already in efficiency mode, playing strictly to their strengths, no risks.

As for weight, imagine hyperextending the knee with an extra 40 pounds in the upper body. The only area where I think it's possible to gain muscle mass is in his legs and ass, but only if it doesn't affect his flexibility and if that mass isn't dangerous for his ankles. At 7 feet 5 inches, he probably can't be built like Giannis without causing problems for his ankles.

It is this uncertainty that must lead the staff to be so cautious. You make diagnoses or physical programs based on data. Victor is outside the data. So here too, it's not science, but experimentation. Giannis isn't the first person of his build and height to gain so much muscle mass. The future of the Spurs for the next ten years depends on Victor's health. No one wants to see at what temperature this big kernel of corn turns into popcorn. So we're keeping him warm enough without toasting him. Victor must not Pop.

This.

Very good post, I was also wondering why he went from an extreme to another as I think his 3pt shooting is vital not only to spread the floor but to extend his career as well.

He's working on the least comfortable part of his game this season, but I'm greedy and still waiting for some easy go-to moves and positioning before the defender.

As for his strength, I think he should bulk up his shoulders and arms to allow him to resist and keep a position and post up. I'm not sure it's just his legs that can't hold it.

He should do lateral raises daily ^^

 

[Guru of Nothing]

About Wemby and turnovers, I think a little patience in his game would go a long way. His turnover on second possession of the game was least surprising event in the game. Let the guards loosen up opponents early and then the world will open up for Victor.

 

[Ice009]

You girls keep slitting your wrists after every loss. Kid isn't even 22 yet. His on-court production may not always equal his pronouncements of being the best in the league, but fuck if he isn't at least actually close to being one. He's absolutely the best defender already, and his offense, though imperfect and can be infuriating at times, is at the bare minimum that of a star - and when he's hot, oh boy.

I was once an emo twat like you lot but only a couple of weeks ago I've decided to be at peace with the goddamn process. He's still growing but that confidence will absolutely propel him to greater heights.

He is far, far from a finished product.

He's far from a finished product, but now, he's starting to get to Tim Duncan's age (the greatest player in Spurs history and one of the greatest players ever). At just one year older, Tim was way more mature in his game and he led the Spurs to the Championship. Yes, Tim had a great team of vets to help him, but at a similar age, Tim is way ahead on maturity on the court and how to play the game and use his strengths out there.
You want to say he's still young, and he is, but Victor himself has talked about being the greatest of all time, but now that he's turning 22, he's going to start falling behind Tim Duncan and Lebron too (at a similar age). Talking about being greatest of all time was all OK when he was 19, 20, 21, but now, he needs to starting making those leaps if he wants to get there.

Personally, I don't care about being the greatest of all time or having the highest stats. I only care about wins and Championships. If he can get his teammate going and still have good/great games himself, that's all that matters really. All I know is that the games are more exiting when Victor plays, so I'd rather him play and not put pressure on himself with all this greatest of all time stuff.

tbh Wemby's offensive game is just disappointing and that is mostly based on his 'choice' to do dumb things. This is year 3 already and I think the trajectory is slower than expectation as he should already had 1 and half season to test out what he is good or not good at.

He has to understand what stuff he 'can' get better with and what stuff he probably 'won't ever' get better with. Like overestimating his dribbling skills and trying to dribble into triple team.

Maybe the media has hyped him up too much with the GOAT potential, Hakeem training etc.

Comparing, I believe another greatest prospect of all time, LeBron has taken higher leap in his year 2 and 3 than Wemby did.

The trajectory has slowed down a bit. He's about to fall behind Tim Duncan in his own franchise (Tim Duncan is amazing, though, so that's not a slight).

He talks too much, is way too transparent or generous with the media. He doesn't realize the cost that goes with it.

If you say you're the best or among the MVPs of the league, you can't let your team lose at home back to back vs UTA and CLE

What's head scratching is that his lows are still as impressive and unpredictable than his highs. Sometimes during the same game as we saw vs Cavs for ex where he killed his team to end the 1st half and almost brought it back later with valiant efforts in the 2nd.

I don't have a problem with him talking, I just know that he doesn't realize everything it implies.

Yeah, he says stuff out loud that he probably shouldn't. I think he's putting unneeded pressure on himself by saying some of the stuff he says, he's making it harder on himself and his opponents are probably giving a bit extra against the Spurs. Why makes things harder when you don't have to? It's probably not helping his teammates either having a target on their backs because of some of the stuff he says. TD never would have said stuff that could fire up his opponents. It's hard enough to win games and playoff series, no need to make it harder on yourself.

I only just finished watching the Knicks game a couple of hours or so ago and hadn't come to look at Baseline Bums since before the game against NY. I was a bit scared to come on here to see if there was news/updates on his injury. Hopefully he's all good. He was playing very well this game before getting hurt . Really thankful it doesn't appear to be serious.

 

[MannyIG]

I'm not sure fans realize how rare it is for a super star to accept coming off the becnh THAT many times.

Wemby is helping massively Mitch the same way TD allowing Pop to scream at him helped this one shred anyone comfortably after.

Huge respect for Vic tbh, the kid is really different, he's über ambitious but still have his ego in check. It rarely goes together in life.

lol you gotta chill man we watched Manu for a decade plus. Wemby is good but coming off the bench for a week isn’t going to be impressive to Spurs fans and honestly it shouldn’t be. The bar should be higher.

 

[Exstatic]

lol you gotta chill man we watched Manu for a decade plus. Wemby is good but coming off the bench for a week isn’t going to be impressive to Spurs fans and honestly it shouldn’t be. The bar should be higher.

Evan Mobley recently returned from injury, and refused to come off the bench.

It’s a different day from when Manu played, and although we had and appreciated the ultimate sixth man, it doesnt mean we can’t also appreciate a star who does it today when others won’t, even short term.

 

[MannyIG]

About Wemby and turnovers, I think a little patience in his game would go a long way. His turnover on second possession of the game was least surprising event in the game. Let the guards loosen up opponents early and then the world will open up for Victor.

I think part of the problem is that the turnovers are largely through his face up play where he tries to play like a guard. It’s a bit frustrating and it’s pretty clear to me he’s never going to be able to have enough space to face up and drive because even though he’s got a giant one one one advantage the help d is so damn easy because his dibble is so high.

Mitch is clearly annoyed by it as well. I’m happy that Mitch is trying to address it but I’m a bit annoyed at Wemby forcing the issue so much but perhaps that’s what makes him such a good competitor in other respects.

It’s a bit nit picky and he’s obviously young af but I get the frustration as well. Long term I’m sure he’ll figure it out.

 

[MannyIG]

Evan Mobley recently returned from injury, and refused to come off the bench.

It’s a different day from when Manu played, and although we had and appreciated the ultimate sixth man, it doesnt mean we can’t also appreciate a star who does it today when others won’t, even short term.

The bar needs to be higher. It’s not bad he came off the bench but just like I’m not going to laude people for being the bare minimum I’m not going to gas up Wemby for coming off the bench for a week.

 

[MannyIG]

Here we go again, Chet and Victor have history before the NBA.. Chet talked shit to Victor after a france USA game iirc, Victor did not like it at all then he gets offended when people make comparaisons. Not sure what’s difficult to understand. Also muricans getting all worked up because a French is fucking arrogant, give me a break.. murican nba players invented cockiness and shit with Shaq looking down people getting dunked on or curry antics but there nobody is complaining

Are you kidding me? People on this site had a meltdown when curry did night night to Wemby. Wemby is cocky but the best players are. Sayinf Americans invented cockiness in sports is pretty laughable. Humans are humans and are going to do human things including being.cocky and no nation has a monopoly or a claim to having invented that.

 

[MannyIG]

He's far from a finished product, but now, he's starting to get to Tim Duncan's age (the greatest player in Spurs history and one of the greatest players ever). At just one year older, Tim was way more mature in his game and he led the Spurs to the Championship. Yes, Tim had a great team of vets to help him, but at a similar age, Tim is way ahead on maturity on the court and how to play the game and use his strengths out there.
You want to say he's still young, and he is, but Victor himself has talked about being the greatest of all time, but now that he's turning 22, he's going to start falling behind Tim Duncan and Lebron too (at a similar age). Talking about being greatest of all time was all OK when he was 19, 20, 21, but now, he needs to starting making those leaps if he wants to get there.

Personally, I don't care about being the greatest of all time or having the highest stats. I only care about wins and Championships. If he can get his teammate going and still have good/great games himself, that's all that matters really. All I know is that the games are more exiting when Victor plays, so I'd rather him play and not put pressure on himself with all this greatest of all time stuff.



The trajectory has slowed down a bit. He's about to fall behind Tim Duncan in his own franchise (Tim Duncan is amazing, though, so that's not a slight).


Yeah, he says stuff out loud that he probably shouldn't. I think he's putting unneeded pressure on himself by saying some of the stuff he says, he's making it harder on himself and his opponents are probably giving a bit extra against the Spurs. Why makes things harder when you don't have to? It's probably not helping his teammates either having a target on their backs because of some of the stuff he says. TD never would have said stuff that could fire up his opponents. It's hard enough to win games and playoff series, no need to make it harder on yourself.

I only just finished watching the Knicks game a couple of hours or so ago and hadn't come to look at Baseline Bums since before the game against NY. I was a bit scared to come on here to see if there was news/updates on his injury. Hopefully he's all good. He was playing very well this game before getting hurt . Really thankful it doesn't appear to be serious.

Tim was the best player on the 99 team he was not not the leader on a team with David Robinson, Avery Johnson, Mario Ellie and Terry porter.

This team, as high in potential as it is, does not have a David Robinson caliber player and a team of vets who had a decade of playoff experience including all star Sean Elliott.

It's just not comparable.

 

[MannyIG]

As a whole people need to stop thinking Wemby has to be Duncan simply because they are both 7 feet tall. He’s not that personality and that’s ok. There are far more championship level superstars who talk shit than are like Tim Duncan.

 

[Ice009]

I'm not thinking Victor has to be TD. I'm just stating how far along TD was at a similar point. I bring it up because Victor wants to be the best of all time. To get there, he's going to have to go past TD. I don't care about these kind of personal accomplishments at all, it's Victor that does.

 

[MannyIG]

But he doesn’t have to do it in the same way Duncan did. Neither Jordan or LeBron, 1 and 2 on most GOAT rankings won a title in year 2. It makes zero sense to say he’s falling behind.

 

[Shmurs]

The promise of Wemby is a little maddening. I think it’s easy to project what you want out of his career. And then there were the 2 years of him being in purgatory while we waited for him to play on a real team, which didn’t help the appetite to see him break out.

The current reality is that he is still figuring out what does and doesn’t work, and his body + stamina are somewhat concerning. But in the meantime is still the greatest defensive force in the league and puts up video game stats pretty frequently.

I think we need a 50-20-5-5 game from him to clean our palette.

 

[John B]

It’s a little surprising/disappointing/whatever that he really doesn’t look materially different than his rookie year. I know his core strength is much better, which allows him more ability to operate in the paint. But he’s still a total string bean. Which I guess is maybe what he’ll just be. There were some giannis fantasies for a while with him filling out into a monster, but looks like giannis is a 1 of 1.

…and he’s hurt all the time now with soft tissue stuff so maybe it’s best if Vic stays lighter.

But that’s the problem, he’s trying to play like Giannis which he is not. He is Wemby, a 7’5ish string-bean who has guard skills but not strong enough to go through hard defenses. Already he’s the best defender out there, already he is the best athlete at his size who can guard 1-5 on D while score multiple ways, JUST not as strong to plow through people. But that’s probably not his game. Right now a motion offense initiated by multiple guards should force his defender to move, and that’s probably what’s best offense for him, idk. Pop got his team figured out when his Big 3 were passed their prime and no longer dominant. I trust Mitch and Co will figure it out what’s best to maximize the personnel.

 

[PanameSpur]

lol you gotta chill man we watched Manu for a decade plus. Wemby is good but coming off the bench for a week isn’t going to be impressive to Spurs fans and honestly it shouldn’t be. The bar should be higher.

Love Manu but nothing comparable in terms of impact or status. Not even close.

 

[Shmurs]

But that’s the problem, he’s trying to play like Giannis which he is not. He is Wemby, a 7’5ish string-bean who has guard skills but not strong enough to go through hard defenses. Already he’s the best defender out there, already he is the best athlete at his size who can guard 1-5 on D while score multiple ways, JUST not as strong to plow through people. But that’s probably not his game. Right now a motion offense initiated by multiple guards should force his defender to move, and that’s probably what’s best offense for him, idk. Pop got his team figured out when his Big 3 were passed their prime and no longer dominant. I trust Mitch and Co will figure it out what’s best to maximize the personnel.

Yeah, I think maybe where this goes is: Wemby, we believe you will eventually get to the rim whenever you want but that day is not today, and not tomorrow either unless you gain 50 pounds over night. But in the meantime, enjoy feasting off of the disruption that these guards provide.

He can’t be who he wants to be yet. Probably. But then again the Dallas opening night game did really happen so I don’t know…

 

[MannyIG]

Love Manu but nothing comparable in terms of impact or status. Not even close.

Manu's peak BPM is slightly higher than Wemby's this year. So yeah, the impact Manu had was exactly the impact Wemby has now just focused on different sides of the court. Wemby has a much higher impact defensively while Manu affected the game much more offensively. No one is arguing that he doens't have more potential, but y'all are acting like Wemby has some laundry list of accomplishments when he doesn't. Put some fucking respect on Manu Ginobili when you say shit like not comparable considering Manu had won shit before he even got to be an NBA player.

 

[Paramore]

Versatility is nice

But ...at some point, one must learn to focus on a specific range of skills......

My thoughts revolve around the following: Russell on defense, Kareem on offense, the occasional Durant)

And become better at passing the ball .............

That would help his longevity

(Wemby, if you are reading this > please develop a hook shot man......)

 

[MannyIG]

But that’s the problem, he’s trying to play like Giannis which he is not. He is Wemby, a 7’5ish string-bean who has guard skills but not strong enough to go through hard defenses. Already he’s the best defender out there, already he is the best athlete at his size who can guard 1-5 on D while score multiple ways, JUST not as strong to plow through people. But that’s probably not his game. Right now a motion offense initiated by multiple guards should force his defender to move, and that’s probably what’s best offense for him, idk. Pop got his team figured out when his Big 3 were passed their prime and no longer dominant. I trust Mitch and Co will figure it out what’s best to maximize the personnel.

I do think Wemby has to figure shit out but he's not going to get any shorter so the phycis of his dribble just won't get better for him. He's exceptionally skilled but either way the ball has to travel farther and that means slower dribbling which means its easier for NBA level players to take it away. So that aspect of his game he needs to use only when appropriate and not rely on. I am sure the second specturm stats are showing this and they'll figure it out.

 

[Sugus]

this is a funny one. Person A says it was a fantasy, person B says “why did you have such an expectation “

…excellent stuff.

Maybe because it was less a fantasy, and more of a delusion? They're hardly the same. There was never any real indicator that Wemby would ever grow anywhere close to Giannis' physique and, in fact, Wemby himself made multiple comments stating the contrary during his rookie season, when he was being bumped around and reporters asked if he planned to put on significant weight to fight it. His answer was a very direct "no, we're not planning to do that at all, I focus on mobility and longevity" IIRC.

If you guys can’t handle a “Wemby is great but I have an observation” then what are you really doing? Find the bad arguments and respond to them. You dudes are so incredibly fragile.

If you can't handle your observation being analyzed or critiqued, why post it at all, tbh? Keeping delusions to yourself is free, we all do it, y'know.

Isn't it truly fragile to be complaining about others discussing your takes on an internet forum?

 

[thiste]

I think part of the problem is that the turnovers are largely through his face up play where he tries to play like a guard. It’s a bit frustrating and it’s pretty clear to me he’s never going to be able to have enough space to face up and drive because even though he’s got a giant one one one advantage the help d is so damn easy because his dibble is so high.

Mitch is clearly annoyed by it as well. I’m happy that Mitch is trying to address it but I’m a bit annoyed at Wemby forcing the issue so much but perhaps that’s what makes him such a good competitor in other respects.

It’s a bit nit picky and he’s obviously young af but I get the frustration as well. Long term I’m sure he’ll figure it out.

I believe Victor's logic is, if Giannis can do it, why couldn't I? Although I personally think Giannis (who has way more experience) is vastly better at recognizing when he should drive and when he should pass the ball, there are no games where he is completely prevented from doing it.
That's Giannis' main go to you-can't-stop-it skill, and the Top 4 players all have at least 2 or 3 of those. I believe Victor still has none.

Anyway, if Victor wants to develop that driving skill, he would need a stronger base (way more leg muscle mass & strength) & the ability to not fumble the ball when he gets hacked (way more arms muscle mass & strength).

But then if he manages to master that, it is literally game over for the league.

I do think Wemby has to figure shit out but he's not going to get any shorter so the phycis of his dribble just won't get better for him. He's exceptionally skilled but either way the ball has to travel farther and that means slower dribbling which means its easier for NBA level players to take it away. So that aspect of his game he needs to use only when appropriate and not rely on. I am sure the second specturm stats are showing this and they'll figure it out.

That doesn't have to be an issue, Giannis gathers the ball before he gets into the crowded paint, and Victor being even taller can pretty much gather from the 3 point line. He doesn't have to dribble through 3 people, just keep the ball in his hands.

Also Giannis often takes the ball over his head when he gathers, Victor tends to keep the ball low making it easier to hack (and also prevents refs from clearly seeing eventual fouls). I feel like Victor has started keeping the ball high on drives more, but he still has ways to go on that.

 

[Sugus]

I don't see nearly as much Giannis in Wemby's game as Kevin Durant, and the well-explained above physical limitations are a big reason why; the same reason that James Harden's comments on Giannis "anyone can just run and dunk" was so fucking stupid. The guy is clearly one in a billion in terms of physical makeup.

Even if Wemby wanted to build that much mass, which he doesn't, he would then face entirely different issues due to his proportions. I'd love for Wemby to clean up his driving game and improve his passing, but not sure Giannis is the mold to follow, despite similar height.

Honestly, I'd love to see him take Kevin Garnett's offer and work with him again this off-season. He clearly "got" some things right from his workouts, but still has a lot to learn and get drilled into.

 

[John B]

The best “gather” I patterned my game was Kobe. I f@cking just hug that ball to my chest then I go through a crowd!

Wemby is so skilled but sometimes he needs to simplify his game. He likes to break people’s ankles instead of developing a hook shot. He likes to send a one legged 3 pt shot, mesmerizing when he hits them, headaches when he misses. When Manu was playing, sure he has more of those “ball-to-the-bleacher” types of passes, until he realized that the best way to point B is from point A, less fancy, more straight-forward. Magic was the definition of showtime Hollywood with his no-look passes. Yet he realized that he’s so much bigger than most guards that the best way to the goal was backing a defender down and finishing with a hook shot.

Wemby needs to curtail some of the fancy moves and score a little more boring way. It worked for Timmy! Writing this makes me think why Wemby may not seek Timmy’s “boring” help, but rather go to Crawford’s handles, The Dream’s shake, and Garnett’s fadeaways. Kobe/MJ took thousands of hours mastering moves. Wemby has the same workout DNA. I don’t doubt it. It just going to be a lot of headaches until then.