The Massive Puzzle of a Wemby-Centric Offense

[ambchang]

What the issue is is that when wemby is on the floor the spurs force the ball to wemby, bogging down the offence. It’s a combination of spacing, predictability and lacking players who can do reliable entry passes other than fox (castle and Harper are still learning). So Mitch has to figure out when and how to get that done.

Once wemby gets the ball in the high post wemby would be swarmed and wemby has to learn how to recognize the doubles and pass the ball at the perfect time. Which is one of the hardest things to do for a big so this will take a few years. Other players tend to also just stand around when wemby has the ball. Again, Mitch has to figure this out.

Finally, I don’t see too much wemby pick and rolls because wemby is not a good screener. This game with one of our three ball handlers is simply unstoppable. A twist is having another big (kornet being the only candidate) screen, while someone else do an off ball screen for wemby for a roll to the basket but the spacing would be a nightmare. Not sure how to get this implemented properly.

 

[bozhemoi]

The last thing I want to do is turn into a Wemby centric offense. It's fantastic that they are so good on offense without depending on him.

 

[spursistan]

It-s a true puzzle. 2 starts and our offense has looked clunky all of sudden.. i really thought by now we would be farther along with him as main guy on that end.

 

[Spurminator]

It-s a true puzzle. 2 starts and our offense has looked clunky all of sudden.. i really thought by now we would be farther along with him as main guy on that end.

Exactly, two games after a long hiatus.

Give it time, don't panic. It's a long season.

 

[Sugus]

Exactly, two games after a long hiatus.

Give it time, don't panic. It's a long season.

It honestly may take quite a bit more time than we think - I think these playoffs will be a massive learning experience for the team, and I don't expect the team to "settle into an offense" until next season at the earliest.

Wemby is clearly capable of so much, and I really understand him having all these abilities and shutting down the noise to "just play simple like a normal big man". Fuck that noise when you can make Shammgods and one-legged 3 pointers in an NBA game tbh , yes, even to the short-term detriment of the team. Wemby doesn't need to shed those parts of his game; instead he needs to learn even more, just experience itself, to better select the opportunities where a crazy move is warranted or maybe the extra pass or simple pull-up shot is better.

The Spurs will likely have an up-and-down season, a strong 1st round showing, and flame out against an older team in the 2nd round. Then it's a perfect time for Mitch & co. to drill the "fundamental skills" in the off-season, with the playoff tape to learn from and dissect.

 

[RC_Drunkford]

I think the key thing to figure out here is the Fox/Wemby 2-man game. We've seen some pretty give and go's between those 2 in a game. I think it was against NOLA if I'm not mistaken. Those 2 need to learn how to play off of each other.

 

[tearsofmorningdew]

The minutes need to be ramped up a bit. I get the injury recovery but we need to start seeing 30-35 minutes. Hes been sub-30 minutes for the majority of the games this year it feels like

 

[PanameSpur]

I think Spurs offense SHOULD NOT be Wemby nor anyone centric.

Only Spur's defense should be and there's some job to do in that area too so Wemby isn't the one having to close on corner 3s like we see too often.

On offense, Wemby takes way too much time to operate and sometimes even to think of what he wants to do, it's helping opp defenses too much and becomes an iso game.

Love Wemby but as impressive are his highs, his lows are too costly and too frequent.

Devil's advocate's take : It's year 3 and Mitch still hasn't figured out a way to use him other than Wemby going off by himself...

After Sweanny on D, maybe we also need an assistant specialist of the offense as well to help Mitch...?

 

[RC_Drunkford]

I think Spurs offense SHOULD NOT be Wemby nor anyone centric.

Only Spur's defense should be and there's some job to do in that area too so Wemby isn't the one having to close on corner 3s like we see too often.

On offense, Wemby takes way too much time to operate and sometimes even to think of what he wants to do, it's helping opp defenses too much and becomes an iso game.

Love Wemby but as impressive are his highs, his lows are too costly and too frequent.

Devil's advocate's take : It's year 3 and Mitch still hasn't figured out a way to use him other than Wemby going off by himself...

After Sweanny on D, maybe we also need an assistant specialist of the offense as well to help Mitch...?

Sweeney has made this a top 5 defense. Mitch made it a top 5 offense. He doesn‘t need any more assistans on that end to help him with anything.

Mitch already figured out the offense around Kornet with Fox at the helm. Figuring it out with Wemby will take some time cause he‘s a unique player and missed 12 games. If you look at the threads started on this board while he was out, most of us knew this will take some time.

 

[Mitch Cumsteen]

I honestly like Vic coming off the bench. Let Fox and Castles run the offense early with Kornet screening the hell out of everybody and get the team in to a groove. Let Vic come in five minutes into the game. He balances out that second unit.

In the grand scheme of things, does it matter if he starts the game? Notwithstanding any minutes restriction, he's going to get the same number of overall minutes and still be in the game at crunch time. Are the first five minutes more important than the second five minutes of the game? I get the prestige thing and how things have traditionally been done in the league, but his coming off the bench seemed to let the other guys get settled in and then he comes in and completely changes the complexion of the game.

 

[k....]

I honestly like Vic coming off the bench. Let Fox and Castles run the offense early with Kornet screening the hell out of everybody and get the team in to a groove. Let Vic come in five minutes into the game. He balances out that second unit.

In the grand scheme of things, does it matter if he starts the game? Notwithstanding any minutes restriction, he's going to get the same number of overall minutes and still be in the game at crunch time. Are the first five minutes more important than the second five minutes of the game? I get the prestige thing and how things have traditionally been done in the league, but his coming off the bench seemed to let the other guys get settled in and then he comes in and completely changes the complexion of the game.

it would be a massive scandal from the players standpoint because it would impact the supermax stats. For better or worse the team is VIC as long as he's here. its the new star power agenda.

 

[scott]

it would be a massive scandal from the players standpoint because it would impact the supermax stats. For better or worse the team is VIC as long as he's here. its the new star power agenda.

Only if we presume that voters would leave Vic off all NBA or all defensive lists because he wasn't starting. Victor coming off the bench (and playing 30 mpg, not 22) is still an All NBA player IMO, but he's definitely still All Defensive. In which case, he'll still qualify for the Supermax.

 

[LeBowen]

He was actually great tonight other than that early turnover.

We've been blaming Wemby on guards getting out of rythm, but that can't be an excuse.
Since he came back Fox is 11-35 from 3pt, Castle is at 5-22 and Harper is at 1-10.

The offense was functional and fluid because Fox was at almost 40% and cosplayed as an elite shooter while Castle was penetrating and also shooting 34% from 3pt in that stretch without Wemby.

 

[The Ballsbreakers]

Hopefully he's not out for a long time.

 

[Guru of Nothing]

I love what KJ is doing in 6th man role, but could KJ be the starting PF we need in 2026? It seems like his hustle/dirty work approach to the game is a perfect compliment to the alien.

 

[frenchfred]

He was actually great tonight other than that early turnover.

We've been blaming Wemby on guards getting out of rythm, but that can't be an excuse.
Since he came back Fox is 11-35 from 3pt, Castle is at 5-22 and Harper is at 1-10.

The offense was functional and fluid because Fox was at almost 40% and cosplayed as an elite shooter while Castle was penetrating and also shooting 34% from 3pt in that stretch without Wemby.

for sure, having guards knocking down threes would help Wemby getting more room inside.

 

[ambchang]

I honestly like Vic coming off the bench. Let Fox and Castles run the offense early with Kornet screening the hell out of everybody and get the team in to a groove. Let Vic come in five minutes into the game. He balances out that second unit.

In the grand scheme of things, does it matter if he starts the game? Notwithstanding any minutes restriction, he's going to get the same number of overall minutes and still be in the game at crunch time. Are the first five minutes more important than the second five minutes of the game? I get the prestige thing and how things have traditionally been done in the league, but his coming off the bench seemed to let the other guys get settled in and then he comes in and completely changes the complexion of the game.

I would say the better solution would be having wemby up his screening game. Him being capable of screening for the guards and generate offence would be even better. It would also allow better options to stagger minutes for fox, Harper and castle along with wemby.

We’ve been focusing mostly on how to stagger minutes with the three guards but if we look at wemby as an offensive initiator, it gives us an option to have two or even three offensive initiators on the floor for all 48 minutes, which is a luxury most teams do now have in the league. The key is to have an offence where the presence of one of this initiator would enhance, or at least not reduce, the effectiveness Of the other initiatives, but the issue now is that Wembys presence does impact the effectiveness of the other initiators negatively as the offence stalls with less movement. Wemby is ridiculously mobile and should have no issues in a movements based offence, where constant moving and cutting would create havoc for any defence.

 

[Wemby_Island]

What the issue is is that when wemby is on the floor the spurs force the ball to wemby, bogging down the offence. It’s a combination of spacing, predictability and lacking players who can do reliable entry passes other than fox (castle and Harper are still learning). So Mitch has to figure out when and how to get that done.

Once wemby gets the ball in the high post wemby would be swarmed and wemby has to learn how to recognize the doubles and pass the ball at the perfect time. Which is one of the hardest things to do for a big so this will take a few years. Other players tend to also just stand around when wemby has the ball. Again, Mitch has to figure this out.

Finally, I don’t see too much wemby pick and rolls because wemby is not a good screener. This game with one of our three ball handlers is simply unstoppable. A twist is having another big (kornet being the only candidate) screen, while someone else do an off ball screen for wemby for a roll to the basket but the spacing would be a nightmare. Not sure how to get this implemented properly.

If spurs force the ball to wemby, he is unfuxable. They dont do that very often. He can shoot 3 PT, his mid range jumpers are top notch and can dunk off any gaps.

See Yesterday’s game against Knicks. They ran the plays for him and he was soo good on both sides.

The problem with Wemby is dribbling the ball off fast breaks .i.e. if he tries to run the offense. He needs to slow the game a bit with ball in his hands.

He was very effective doing that in his rookie year, but its not the case any more..

 

[Paramore]

I have been saying it since last year that Wemby takes too much ground on offence, which is why it is ineffective for him to be that perimeter creator he seems to want to take. His handles are not as tight as Durant, and every dribble covers at least a foot more, so the double comes very easily. In most cases, the defence wasn't even doubling him, he just dribbles into the double.

I see there are two main offences the Spurs can run:
1) Wemby at the elbow, back to the basket, get the ball, turn around and scan. One guy each at the corner threes, 1 at the top of the 3, and one at the opposite side 3, FT line extended. This way the spacing would allow Wemby to dribble along the outside of the paint without anyone doubling, other than the corner on his side, at which point the corner three guy can either get a pass for an open 3, or just drive baseline for an easy layup. If the double is coming from the top, the top guy makes a cut into the open lane, forcing the opposite two guys to help or give up an open layup. if the double comes from FT line extended from the opposite side, either a pass or a cut will force a rotation. Add in some off ball cuts between the opposite side, or even from the top guy, and it's a relatively easily executable offence that could be hard to stop.

2) Wemby at a 45 degree angle on either the left or right at the 3 point line. The problem with this set up is that we would require one or two guys who is a threat from up to 30 feet to help with spacing, plus another guy who can score in the mid post. If we can have a mid post, a corner three on the strong side, and Wemby out at the 45 degree area, the opposition either would have to double the post with Wemby's man leaving him open for a 3 or leave the corner guy. Another way is for the post player to post on the other side, and Wemby on the weak side 45 degree angle, where he can just cut in for a dunk. Nobdy will be able to stop Wemby from receiving a pass that high, where he can catch it and go straight for a layup without putting the ball on the floor. Again, the weakside can also do all kinds of off ball screens and cuts and it would be difficult to stop. However, timing is key, and I am not sure if we have the guys to execute this.

Sir, would love to have some diagrams/illustrations on this.....very well said.....thank you.