Player The Layne Staley Depression-Laden Foxhole of De'Aaron Martez Fox

[MannyIG]

Fox deserves a lot of props for what he is doing this year.

He is a top30 player, in his prime, who could have made a push to be an all star this season. Instead of that, he sacrificed his offensive touches to let a 21 years old Castle getting better. Few players in his situation would have done that, even with a max extension secured. I'm' impressed.

Fucking EXACTLY

 

[Correct Crusader]

He's better than Sengun this year.

 

[MannyIG]

Exactly... the criticism of Fox is largely just scoreboard watching without context.

His usage, especially since the NBA Cup, has been displaced by Castle's (who hasn't exactly been super efficient over that stretch) which was clearly by design. I don't know if it was a form of load management to preserve Fox, or a developmental plan for Castle, or some combination of both... but I'm encouraged that we seem to be moving away from that and more towards Castle in his more appropriate role and Fox into his... and our offense is starting to look a lot better for it.

I also think that when you see a game like last night where he steps into the clearly needed void its obvious that he can do that when we need it. Really points to him being able to do this more in the playoffs when we'll really get to make a judgement.

 

[MannyIG]

nah nah, i cant let this one sit. several of our losses or close wins he's had disappearing acts. its not even about the game where he has abysmal turnovers like against Dallas, its where he is just invisible/passive. and i dont want to hear "but Castle" because we gave Fox a max extension, which does not make sense if he's not going to be the 1B or at worst the #2.

Things I will never understand:

Making a determination on who is the number two based upon random games before the ASB.
Using someone's contract as an indicator of how well they are playing.
The valuation of individual wins/losses out of context - especially in games before the ASB.

To be fair, some of y'all are consistent on this criticism and regardless of whether or not I think its obviously stupid I should probably realize you're not going to stop and just let it be.

 

[MannyIG]

Yeah, let's hype the max player for dominating a team of scrubs.
Fyi, I've been one of the biggest Fox defenders since the trade happened and blamed most of his issues on Mitch.

Your white knight gimmick is boring, calling someone out for not commenting on what exactly? When you're the guy who pretty much does nothing but "I told you so" posts, but only when things go your way. Nowhere to be seen when they don't.

Ok I really think you are projecting hard af here. So I tell you what. I have always admitted when I am wrong, the thing is that I usually have well reasoned and well thought out data driven opinions on matters or I just don't speak on them so if you think I am wrong on something then I am more than willing to put my money where my mouth is. You tell me which of my takes that I am stubbornly clinging to you think is so obviously wrong that you want to bet on and we can work something out so that there is a clear right/wrong answer and we can both put something more than forum bullshit on the line.

I am happy to eat crow when I am wrong because thats the only way you learn. Being stubborn about things and burying your head in the stand is something I explicitly avoid, but now that you've called me out on doing it, I am more than happy to provide you an opportunity to use that against me and win some money off of me as well as bragging rights. What do you say?

 

[Mugen]

Let it be known that if you force your way to the Spurs, you get a max extension and an All Star selection tbh

 

[thiste]

CONGRATULATIONS DEEE COMPLETELY DESERVED!!!

 

[OK Computer]

Let it be known that if you force your way to the Spurs, you get a max extension and an All Star selection tbh

I think I’m going to make a thread about THIS rumor:

https://twitter.com/x/status/2021740594192953481

 

[siraulo22]

congrats Fox

2 all stars for the spurs thumbs up

 

[spurraider21]

I think I’m going to make a thread about THIS rumor:

https://twitter.com/x/status/2021740594192953481

Petition to ban any points about OOS sports

 

[Dex]

Fox probably like "shit I already booked my vacation"

Well deserved and great to see two Spurs in the All-Star game. Last time since what, 2014? And that ended up alright.

 

[Neuromancer]

Fox probably like "shit I already booked my vacation"

Well deserved and great to see two Spurs in the All-Star game. Last time since what, 2014? And that ended up alright.

2016 with Kawhi and LMA

 

[Dex]

2016 with Kawhi and LMA

Ah, that's right

I must've purged the Kawhi memories

 

[siraulo22]

gotta give credit to Mitch too

his comment the other day probably had an impact to the decision in naming Fox an all star

 

[tearsofmorningdew]

Things I will never understand:

Making a determination on who is the number two based upon random games before the ASB.
Using someone's contract as an indicator of how well they are playing.
The valuation of individual wins/losses out of context - especially in games before the ASB.

To be fair, some of y'all are consistent on this criticism and regardless of whether or not I think its obviously stupid I should probably realize you're not going to stop and just let it be.

I’ll concede I’ve been very hard on Fox but someone’s contract should absolutely factor in how they’re evaluated. Fox has met expectations I guess I’ve just been a little greedy/unrealistic

 

[Dex]

I’ll concede I’ve been very hard on Fox but someone’s contract should absolutely factor in how they’re evaluated. Fox has met expectations I guess I’ve just been a little greedy/unrealistic

I think some people are being unnecessarily harsh on him but I think it's because we know he is capable of doing more than he has shown this season (other than flashes like last night). He's a vet compared to some of these other young guys and he's taking a back seat to let them learn and grow.

I want to see that StarFox more consistently, but maybe he and Mitch are waiting for the home stretch and playoffs to unleash it. Don't want to give away your cards early.

 

[timtonymanu]

I think some people are being unnecessarily harsh on him but I think it's because we know he is capable of doing more than he has shown this season (other than flashes like last night). He's a vet compared to some of these other young guys and he's taking a back seat to let them learn and grow.

I want to see that StarFox more consistently, but maybe he and Mitch are waiting for the home stretch and playoffs to unleash it. Don't want to give away your cards early.

It also says a lot that he isn’t sulking or complaining about getting his touches, he’s fully bought into the system. I liked LaMarcus but he had a pouting attitude about not getting his shots like he did in Portland. Fox wants players like Castle and Harper to grow. I rather have a player like that for the max and helping the team win vs to have a statpadder that puts his needs over the team.

 

[ambchang]

Exactly... the criticism of Fox is largely just scoreboard watching without context.

His usage, especially since the NBA Cup, has been displaced by Castle's (who hasn't exactly been super efficient over that stretch) which was clearly by design. I don't know if it was a form of load management to preserve Fox, or a developmental plan for Castle, or some combination of both... but I'm encouraged that we seem to be moving away from that and more towards Castle in his more appropriate role and Fox into his... and our offense is starting to look a lot better for it.

I gave the thought of putting the ball in castles hands a bit, and I may be (likely to be totally) wrong but from a tactical view, given that castle can’t shoot from the outside, he is not going to be an off ball catch and shoot threat, by putting the ball in his hands you are forcing the defence to put a man on him, even though the defender can back off a bit, he still has to guard castle instead of collapsing in the paint or double someone else. Another way of putting it is castle being an initiator is better than castle being an off ball shooter.

As castle develops into a stronger shooter, the ball will start to get in the hands of more players to initiate the offence.

 

[scott]

I gave the thought of putting the ball in castles hands a bit, and I may be (likely to be totally) wrong but from a tactical view, given that castle can’t shoot from the outside, he is not going to be an off ball catch and shoot threat, by putting the ball in his hands you are forcing the defence to put a man on him, even though the defender can back off a bit, he still has to guard castle instead of collapsing in the paint or double someone else. Another way of putting it is castle being an initiator is better than castle being an off ball shooter.

As castle develops into a stronger shooter, the ball will start to get in the hands of more players to initiate the offence.

I think it's a decent theory, but it's kind of undermined by how good he's looked when Fox or Harper have been the primary ball handler. He really excels at a cutter and driver, and his C&S jumper has been a lot closer to respectable (his pull up 3 numbers drag his 3P% down quite a bit... he is 1/21 on those so far this season per the NBA.com advanced shooting dashboard). And I think most importantly, he has proven that he can still be a highly effective distributor as a secondary ball handler.

I'm really interested to see how things develop post ASB... it seems like we have started moving away from Castle as the lead ball handler, but it's also been a short sample (my observation is that this has only been like the last 4 games).

 

[couchman]

I'm very happy with Fox so far.
When Wemby was out he took over the team and carried us to a fantastic record.
That guy that we saw during that time is still on our team, and I suspect we'll see him again come playoff time, but we don't need him to take over right now.
What we need is for the young team around Fox to develop so that we can compete for championships in the near future, maybe even this year.
Fox is not letting his ego get in the way. He's being a leader and he's making room for the team around him develop.
I'm really happy that his willingness to sacrifice his counting stats coincides with him being an All-Star for only the second time in his career.

 

[RC_Drunkford]

interesting tidbit from this interview: Fox is saying he's learning to play off the ball (7:10). So maybe the ball has been in Castle's hands more not only to develop Castle's playmaking, but Fox' offball game.

 

[kxs783]

interesting tidbit from this interview: Fox is saying he's learning to play off the ball (7:10). So maybe the ball has been in Castle's hands more not only to develop Castle's playmaking, but Fox' offball game.

Fox is the better outside shooter right now. It only makes sense for Castle/Harper to kick out to him vs the other way around. That's the only way this backcourt will work as of right now.

 

[RC_Drunkford]

 

[scott]

Messing around with a new tool that's a lot of fun so while this post has info about Fox... I'm mostly posting this to clue you all into CourtSketch.com

Huge shout outs to the dudes behind Databallr and now Courtsketch for taking access to high quality analytics and charts to another level AND making them available to the masses.

This sit has some cool tools that actually link to clips of plays in question (check out the Dunks v Blocks dashboard, for example). What an absolutely beautiful gift this website is.

 

[scott]

Also, as a resident Fox Defender, I want to officially register how much I hate this thread title