Player The Layne Staley Depression-Laden Foxhole of De'Aaron Martez Fox

[Ice009]

The #1 hater of Fox had this gem to say in the game thread.

Thanks for explaining. Now I understand

 

[spurraider21]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1991687549530829103

 

[Guru of Nothing]

No acknowledgement, and no doubt?

 

[Em-City]

The 38.6 % shooting is a very reasonable clip, given the types of 3s fox is taking, but more importantly, he's getting them up at decent volume (2.4 3PM per game), second only to his 2023-24 season in Sacramento.

The reason I believe this trajectory is important is because of how it increases the chances of playing the best players more minutes together with reasonable spacing to complement the playmaking - essentially by allowing stronger than anticipated perimeter shooting when Castle/Harper are out there

 

[couchman]

So far Fox has been everything we could have hoped for. He makes one more shot against GS and people here would be predicting a Finals berth

 

[tearsofmorningdew]

So far Fox has been everything we could have hoped for. He makes one more shot against GS and people here would be predicting a Finals berth

I definitely overreacted. He still should’ve passed the ball to Wemby tbh

 

[PanameSpur]

So far Fox has been everything we could have hoped for. He makes one more shot against GS and people here would be predicting a Finals berth

Has he now???

It's not his fault but he was acquired to be paired with Wemby and they've barely played a dozen games together, we're still waiting to see any connection between both.

I'll wait to judge tbh I'm not convinced yet. Fox's game is based on his speed and explosiveness at the rim. He's not a shooter nor a pure playmaker, 2 aspects that are the most important for the future imo. There's no reason to be surprised that Fox can do his numbers with his playing time and usage.

He's saying all the right things, like Vassell, but I'll wait to see how his game evolve or if he's just going to be the SAC Fox, which I'm not interested in tbh.

 

[bozhemoi]

We're in a lot of trouble if Fox is going to be this bad. He looks small, cannot guard anyone or even stay in front of anyone, he cannot get around players, he has no real point guard skills, and cannot get his shot off. Against PHX he got to the line, but that was it.

Not a big problem if you're paying him $30 mil/year, which would be too much, but he's maxed out. This was a game where he really needed to rise to the occasion and take over the team's needs with so many injuries and he was a painful non-factor. Really bad signs from him so far this year.

 

[ambchang]

We're in a lot of trouble if Fox is going to be this bad. He looks small, cannot guard anyone or even stay in front of anyone, he cannot get around players, he has no real point guard skills, and cannot get his shot off. Against PHX he got to the line, but that was it.

Not a big problem if you're paying him $30 mil/year, which would be too much, but he's maxed out. This was a game where he really needed to rise to the occasion and take over the team's needs with so many injuries and he was a painful non-factor. Really bad signs from him so far this year.

Of all thr entire team’s horrible play and your issue is with Fox? Give it up man Mr B… I mean @bozhemoi

 

[Ice009]

I mean, I'm not going to rag on him like Bozhemoi, but anyone that watched Fox somewhat regularly in Sacramento, how did he play there? Is he anywhere near the Sacramento Fox?

He doesn't look that great. I've been expecting him to take over. Lots of penetration/get to the rim and either score or dish it out. He's just passing the ball around a lot and not looking very dynamic out there. He's trying to let inferior players make plays and I don't know why. We need him to take over, not fit in.

 

[ambchang]

It’s because the inferior players couldn’t make plays so the entire defence was around Fox which means he can’t score and has to create for others. But if the others are ice cold well the suns will continue to do that until the other guys can make a basket.

Which is why he was scoring well I. The first half but has to pass up shots in the second it’s because the suns figured out how to stop the spurs offence.

It’s basically what Robinson encountered his entire pre Duncan life, especially in the playoffs.

 

[Fireball]

His speed still looks pretty good but now that he is alone and SA Three point shooting still sucks, I would not let him get into the paint easy either.

 

[PanameSpur]

I mean, I'm not going to rag on him like Bozhemoi, but anyone that watched Fox somewhat regularly in Sacramento, how did he play there? Is he anywhere near the Sacramento Fox?

He doesn't look that great. I've been expecting him to take over. Lots of penetration/get to the rim and either score or dish it out. He's just passing the ball around a lot and not looking very dynamic out there. He's trying to let inferior players make plays and I don't know why. We need him to take over, not fit in.

Another topic I was against everybody but you can't say I didn't warn you guys...

Fox will always do his stats but he not what we need nor does he have the profile to last at the highest level for OBVIOUS REASONS FFS ^^. It's not rocket science to see it...

His game is based on his explosiveness and attacking the rim, his assists come off of that, not bc he's good a setting up or organizing an offense.

He's not a shooter nor an organizer and pale on defense vs Castle or even Harper

FOX IS GOING TO GET A LOT WORSE IN THE COMING SEASONS.

 

[PanameSpur]

His speed still looks pretty good but now that he is alone and SA Three point shooting still sucks, I would not let him get into the paint easy either.

It's the last thing that makes him look elite, but it won't last.

TP worked on a mid-range that extended his career once he lost his speed advantage, Fox doesn't have that

 

[Fireball]

Fox is nearly 28 ... I foresee him to be with the Spurs 2-3 seasons (including this season), so not expecting a real speed drop-off during that stint. It will come afterwards ...

 

[LeBowen]

Fox since Wemby went down: 26.5ppg/3.3rpg/6.5ast with 1.5 steals and just 2 turnovers on 52/42/78 and taking the most difficult guard matchups very few all-star guards do.
But he's the problem.

 

[couchman]

Let’s be honest here: Fox was fine last night. He’s not a superstar. He’s a borderline all-star who pretty consistently gets his numbers.

Champ, Kelly O, and DJG shooting a combined 3/21 is what lost the game.

 

[ambchang]

It's the last thing that makes him look elite, but it won't last.

TP worked on a mid-range that extended his career once he lost his speed advantage, Fox doesn't have that

I can see the argument that Fox won't be successful because mid-range is being weeded out of the league, but Fox doesn't have a midrange game?

Comparing Fox to DeRozan (king of midrange) and Parker for their careers. I put in Parker since 2011-12 as that is the season he shot notably more from 10-16:

Player	3-10 FGA%	3-10 FG%	10-16 FGA%	10-16 FG%	16-3P FGA%	16-3P FG%
Fox	.249	.474	.159	.440	.108	.400
DeRozan	.108	.471	.236	.456	.280	.405
Parker Career	.186	.455	.094	.403	.271	.411
Parker (since 2011-12)	.215	.450	.132	.447	.267	.427

Fox is superior from 3-10 in both attempt % and % than both of these mid-range legends.
10-16, which is what most of us would classify as midrange, Fox is superior to Tony, both career wise and since 2011-12 season in terms of attempt % (althoug by a small margin) and very close in terms for FG% to both Parker and DeRozan.
16-3P is more a long 2, Fox had way less attempt % but are about as efficient as DeRozan but worse than Parker (though not significantly.

Based on that, not sure how you can conclude Fox didn't have a mid-range game, especially in the context of 10-16 feet.

 

[Fireball]

I can see the argument that Fox won't be successful because mid-range is being weeded out of the league, but Fox doesn't have a midrange game?

Comparing Fox to DeRozan (king of midrange) and Parker for their careers. I put in Parker since 2011-12 as that is the season he shot notably more from 10-16:

Player	3-10 FGA%	3-10 FG%	10-16 FGA%	10-16 FG%	16-3P FGA%	16-3P FG%
Fox	.249	.474	.159	.440	.108	.400
DeRozan	.108	.471	.236	.456	.280	.405
Parker Career	.186	.455	.094	.403	.271	.411
Parker (since 2011-12)	.215	.450	.132	.447	.267	.427

Fox is superior from 3-10 in both attempt % and % than both of these mid-range legends.
10-16, which is what most of us would classify as midrange, Fox is superior to Tony, both career wise and since 2011-12 season in terms of attempt % (althoug by a small margin) and very close in terms for FG% to both Parker and DeRozan.
16-3P is more a long 2, Fox had way less attempt % but are about as efficient as DeRozan but worse than Parker (though not significantly.

Based on that, not sure how you can conclude Fox didn't have a mid-range game, especially in the context of 10-16 feet.

nice work! I questioned the statement myself and am glad someone looked deeper into it

 

[Itzsoweezee]

That Mr Body changed up his whole posting style yet still outed himself due to his extreme takes on Fox (and the yearning for Branham really gave it away) is so hilarious to me

 

[scott]

That Mr Body changed up his whole posting style yet still outed himself due to his extreme takes on Fox (and the yearning for Branham really gave it away) is so hilarious to me

 

[SpursFan86]

Fox since Wemby went down: 26.5ppg/3.3rpg/6.5ast with 1.5 steals and just 2 turnovers on 52/42/78 and taking the most difficult guard matchups very few all-star guards do.
But he's the problem.

While I agree that he's not the problem, I do think his stats in this stretch are sort of over-estimating his actual impact on winning these games. I haven't been blown away or super impressed personally.

That being said, I'm definitely not one of these people who think he's a cancer or needs to be traded ASAP Put me in the camp of "slightly concerned" re: his contract for the next few years. Hoping he continues to look more comfortable as time goes on, and really the biggest thing is just developing chemistry with Wemby. Would be nice if they could actually play together for more than 5 games before someone gets injured.

 

[dn0774]

Some of the doom and gloom here regarding Fox is a bit surprising. I think he's been solid considering he's coming back from a hamstring injury that had him on light duty for ~12 weeks. He looks like he is in cruise control right now, avoiding pushing it too much and getting confidence back in his body. No reason to think he won't still have his normal burst in due time, he just needs time to spin up.

There were some stats posted recently about other players who suffered the same injury (or similar) that showed a clear stat boost after 6ish weeks of said player returning. I'm giving Fox that same ramp up time before getting too judgey. This same Suns team throttled the Spurs 3 weeks ago with Wemby/Castle/Harper all playing and now without them we are laying blame on Fox? Sorry, I just can't get there.

Need to find a way to get the Portland game. They are banged up and ripe for another loss, no excuses.

 

[LeBowen]

While I agree that he's not the problem, I do think his stats in this stretch are sort of over-estimating his actual impact on winning these games. I haven't been blown away or super impressed personally.

Kings: Carried hard with 28/11, had 12 points in the 4th.
Grizzlies: 14 points in the 3rd when they were making everything, kept us in the game.
Hawks: Solid game throughout, 26/9 with just 2 turnovers.
Suns: Noone really stood out, he did his thing and kept it competitive.

His FG in 4th quarters without Wemby is 13-19 with 0 turnovers.

Noone is claiming Fox is a franchise player, he was brought to be the second or 2A option in some games and he's just that.

Put me in the camp of "slightly concerned" re: his contract for the next few years.

Fox will be making $49M next season when his extension kicks in.
Devin and Keldon will combine for $44.5M.

Who would you rather have on the team?
Is Fox worth 30% of the cap? Probably not. But he's definitely in that ~25% range and I'd rather overpay 5 to 10 million for a legit all-star than have overpaid role players like Devin.
Cap space wise his contract won't be an issue until the final year when Castle's extension kicks in.

And unless he suffers a catastrophic series of injuries we'll always be able to easily move him if needed.

 

[SpursFan86]

Fox will be making $49M next season when his extension kicks in.
Devin and Keldon will combine for $44.5M.

Who would you rather have on the team?
Is Fox worth 30% of the cap? Probably not. But he's definitely in that ~25% range and I'd rather overpay 5 to 10 million for a legit all-star than have overpaid role players like Devin.
Cap space wise his contract won't be an issue until the final year when Castle's extension kicks in.

And unless he suffers a catastrophic series of injuries we'll always be able to easily move him if needed.

I mean yeah, Devin's contract looks terrible so of course Fox's looks better in comparison With Devin I'm "very concerned" about his contract while with Fox it's only a slight concern.

Again, I'm not saying that Fox is garbage or that his contract is awful. Just that I haven't been super impressed with his play thus far (even in this recent stretch where his raw counting stats look very solid). There's plenty of time for things to change and I more or less agree that his contract will be easily movable if he continues to play the way he has so far. I still think trading for him was the right move and am hopeful that he can be a clear 2nd option for Wemby once they get more time together.