Player The "It's My Time" Busted Clocktower of Devin Vassell

[tearsofmorningdew]

And the problem is this isn’t really fixable because I) he doesn’t have the first step/speed/shiftiness to get defender off him for a higher percentage shot and II) he doesn’t have the strength to bully or shoulder his defender off him for an easier look.

he’s also naturally stupid

 

[LeBowen]

It's time to let him go even if it's just for expiring money before we need to attach a 1st to get rid of his contract.
He was subpar with our other guards all available and enabling him to play off the ball.
He's subpar when they're out and he can go back to his supposed natural role of being a secondary ballhandler and scorer.

Injury free summer, supposedly never prepared better for the season and it's the same old Devin.
It's his sixth year, at this point hoping he'll become more consistent and efficent is just delusional.

Second highest earner on the team, fifth leading scorer with scoring as his main selling point.
Barnes is just 1ppg behind him while taking 3.8 less shots.
Keldon is 1.3 ppg behind while taking 3.5 less shots and playing 9mpg less.

Coming into the season he was supposed to join Barnes as another ~40% (or close to it) 3pt shooter on the team but he's still at pedestrian 36% as a guy we kept because he's supposedly a good shooter.

He's averaging just 0.4 more assists than Barnes who's almost exclusvely an off the ball players.
His drives are mostly tragic as we've seen last night and he's in 10th place at just 1.8 FTA per game.
The only rotation member who takes less FTs than him is Sochan at 1.3 FTA.

He's averaging 0.3 more FGA than Castle who's not that great of a scorer just yet and is scoring 3.4ppg less.

All this would be somewhat fine if he was in that 10 to 15 million a year range, but at 27 going all the way up until 2029 he simply has to go.
When everyone is healthy, I'd say we can easily DNP him and not even lose anything.

Fox/Castle/Harper can all play 30+ mpg with DJG taking leftover guard minutes if needed.
Champ/Barnes/Keldon can all play at least 25mpg, leaving us with 20ish leftover forward minutes that can be split between Wemby/Kornet lineups and Sochan/Olynyk/Bryant getting some minutes.

 

[Fabbs]

Defense.

Wasn't able to tune in last night. Was Vassell getting assrammed on treys by Phoenix?

 

[SpursFan86]

Just so disappointing to see the lack of progression in his game. I remember being so high on him after the 2023-2024 season...and then since then he's not only not improved, but actually seems to have gotten worse.

3 and a half more seasons of this contract

 

[LeBowen]

If we look at just 2pt FG%, Devin is the second worst on the roster after Bryant.

0-5ft worst on the roster at 54% if we exclude Waters, Biyombo and DJG with small sample size.
For comparison, Fox is at 80%, Keldon is at 70% and Castle is at 67%.

5-9ft by far the worst on the roster at 25%.
Castle and Keldon are at 54%, Fox is at 57%.

10-14ft is where he starts to shine at 44%.
Fox is at 33% and Castle is at 61%.

15-19ft is his game, 52%, the best on the roster. Noone else has more than 33%.

20-24ft is at 38%, better than Castle/Fox/Keldon who are in 33-36% range.

25-29ft is barely taken by anyone, he's at 35%.

Obviously mid-range is his game, but combined with the already mentioned worst FTA rate on the entire team and horrible finishing at the rim, he's a complete non-factor while attacking the paint and teams don't really care about mid-range shots from role players these days.

He won't get better at paint penetration at this stage of his career, his only semi-realistic way of staying on the roster is being a positive defender and transitioning in a relentless off the ball mover that hits 3s at close to 40% on high volume.

I honestly thought that he'd be better suited for a bench scorer role, but he's just not good at...well, scoring.
He's got only one 20+ point game this season, others are all 17 or less.

 

[scott]

Thanks @LeBowen - good stats!

I may be misremembering, but I recall at one point in his career he was quite effective at the rim... what the hell happened to that, I wonder. That's definitely disappointing.

 

[twodeep]

Lets also add Vassell rarely makes the extra pass in games he will jack up a shot when he should be making the extra pass sometimes so his shot selection can be iffy at times

 

[Exstatic]

If we look at just 2pt FG%, Devin is the second worst on the roster after Bryant.

0-5ft worst on the roster at 54% if we exclude Waters, Biyombo and DJG with small sample size.
For comparison, Fox is at 80%, Keldon is at 70% and Castle is at 67%.

5-9ft by far the worst on the roster at 25%.
Castle and Keldon are at 54%, Fox is at 57%.

10-14ft is where he starts to shine at 44%.
Fox is at 33% and Castle is at 61%.

15-19ft is his game, 52%, the best on the roster. Noone else has more than 33%.

20-24ft is at 38%, better than Castle/Fox/Keldon who are in 33-36% range.

25-29ft is barely taken by anyone, he's at 35%.

Obviously mid-range is his game, but combined with the already mentioned worst FTA rate on the entire team and horrible finishing at the rim, he's a complete non-factor while attacking the paint and teams don't really care about mid-range shots from role players these days.

He won't get better at paint penetration at this stage of his career, his only semi-realistic way of staying on the roster is being a positive defender and transitioning in a relentless off the ball mover that hits 3s at close to 40% on high volume.

I honestly thought that he'd be better suited for a bench scorer role, but he's just not good at...well, scoring.
He's got only one 20+ point game this season, others are all 17 or less.

He appears to know what he does well, though, and what he doesn’t. Those first two low shooting percentage areas are his lowest two areas in terms of attempts at 9% and 8%. Three pointers are 56% of his shot attempts. Perhaps his job is to actually space the floor for guys who do finish well at the rim.

 

[LeBowen]

Lets also add Vassell rarely makes the extra pass in games he will jack up a shot when he should be making the extra pass sometimes so his shot selection can be iffy at times

He's 4th in touches per game at 48.6 behind Castle, Fox and Wemby.
7th in points per touch at 0.286.

For comparison Barnes has 0.351 in a off the ball scorer role.
Keldon has 0.31 in a on the ball scorer role.

Fox is at 0.31 and Harper is at 0.3 despite obviously being point guards.
Castle is bad in this one at 0.22, but if those three guards had assists included in the production per touch, Devin would probably be the worst on the team.

If we're talking paint touches, he's third worst on the team with 0.3.
McL has 0.1 and Waters is at 0.

His average time of possession is 2.
Keldon is at 1.5 and Barnes is at 1.4. Obviously more effective off the ball than Devin.
Champ is at 0.9.

Fox/Castle are at 6 seconds, obviously due to them bringing the ball up etc.

Devin has 1.8 dribbles per touch.
Keldon 1.3, Barnes 1.1, Champ 0.6.

Meaning Devin has the ball way more than our off the ball scorers and is really ineffective with it.

He appears to know what he does well, though, and what he doesn’t. Those first two low shooting percentage areas are his lowest two areas in terms of attempts at 9% and 8%. Three pointers are 56% of his shot attempts. Perhaps his job is to actually space the floor for guys who do finish well at the rim.

You're right, that's why I tried looking at these touch stats and he's on the ball a lot more than our other scorers which shouldn't be a thing if he's not going to attack the paint.

 

[Exstatic]

He's 4th in touches per game at 48.6 behind Castle, Fox and Wemby.
7th in points per touch at 0.286.

For comparison Barnes has 0.351 in a off the ball scorer role.
Keldon has 0.31 in a on the ball scorer role.

Fox is at 0.31 and Harper is at 0.3 despite obviously being point guards.
Castle is bad in this one at 0.22, but if those three guards had assists included in the production per touch, Devin would probably be the worst on the team.

If we're talking paint touches, he's third worst on the team with 0.3.
McL has 0.1 and Waters is at 0.

His average time of possession is 2.
Keldon is at 1.5 and Barnes is at 1.4. Obviously more effective off the ball than Devin.
Champ is at 0.9.

Fox/Castle are at 6 seconds, obviously due to them bringing the ball up etc.

Devin has 1.8 dribbles per touch.
Keldon 1.3, Barnes 1.1, Champ 0.6.

Meaning Devin has the ball way more than our off the ball scorers and is really ineffective with it.


You're right, that's why I tried looking at these touch stats and he's on the ball a lot more than our other scorers which shouldn't be a thing if he's not going to attack the paint.

I think he’s best as a pure off ball scorer, but with all of the PG games missed so far, he’s been asked to do things he’s maybe not great at.

 

[Itzsoweezee]

I think he’s best as a pure off ball scorer, but with all of the PG games missed so far, he’s been asked to do things he’s maybe not great at.

That might be his best role, but it’s very invaluable to an nba team on its own, and not one you spend a lot of money on unless they are also a very good defender.

 

[LeBowen]

I think he’s best as a pure off ball scorer, but with all of the PG games missed so far, he’s been asked to do things he’s maybe not great at.

His comfort zone is obviously getting c&s or one dribble mid-range looks.
Then extending behind the 3pt line if his shot is falling.

Too bad it's the wrong era.
He'll either need to become a 3pt specialist or learn how to attack the paint. I don't think the second option is viable.

It's just not worth accomodating him into such a limited role considering the money he's making.
Why would we care about Devin when Champ's per36 scoring stats are near identical for 10% the money and he's 3 inches taller?
By playing Devin we lose Castle's size advantage in a lot of matchups.

Just not worth it if he can't be the player we thought he'd be when that extension was offered.
A nice guy, but it's time to move on.
If he gets injured again, we're fucked and we'll have to pay to get rid of him.

 

[ginobilized]

I might as well hop on.....

Great stats LeBowen!

First, I think his D is better overall so far this season than last. He seems more locked in, communicating, understanding schemes, energy is better, etc.

Offense-wise he's been so up and down. He still forces plays that are obviously perilous while often giving up an open shot first. He and Keldon can both be pretty easy to read when they get the ball. KJ has been so effective the first 16 games and Devin, not so much. As a catch and shoot role player he's decent.

Here's where I am with his frustrating play for the $. He's playing the roles of SF/Guard and isn't ideally suited to either. We don't really need more guards and he isn't much of one anyway. We could really use a SF who can either shoot and/or defend better than Vassell. I'd be happy with either O or D with some rebounding moxie. Both would be fantastic. PJ Washington is the dream, but, after watching Dillon Brooks carve us up, he'd be awesome. It might take Sochan and Vassell to get a SF archetype and I'd do it in a heartbeat. Barring that, his minutes need to be earned, not given from here on out.

Seeing how Keldon has adapted has been pretty inspiring and he's probably a Spur for life because of it. He might be the Udonis Haslem of the squad in a few years. KJ's growth has made Vassell's lack in that dept more obvious.

 

[SpursFan86]

Thanks @LeBowen - good stats!

I may be misremembering, but I recall at one point in his career he was quite effective at the rim... what the hell happened to that, I wonder. That's definitely disappointing.

2023 - 2024: 71.5% on 172 FGA at the rim, and 51% on 133 FGA from 3-10 feet out

This year: 55.6% on 18 FGA at the rim, and 31.2% on 16 FGA from 3-10 feet out

 

[ambchang]

He's 4th in touches per game at 48.6 behind Castle, Fox and Wemby.
7th in points per touch at 0.286.

For comparison Barnes has 0.351 in a off the ball scorer role.
Keldon has 0.31 in a on the ball scorer role.

Fox is at 0.31 and Harper is at 0.3 despite obviously being point guards.
Castle is bad in this one at 0.22, but if those three guards had assists included in the production per touch, Devin would probably be the worst on the team.

If we're talking paint touches, he's third worst on the team with 0.3.
McL has 0.1 and Waters is at 0.

His average time of possession is 2.
Keldon is at 1.5 and Barnes is at 1.4. Obviously more effective off the ball than Devin.
Champ is at 0.9.

Fox/Castle are at 6 seconds, obviously due to them bringing the ball up etc.

Devin has 1.8 dribbles per touch.
Keldon 1.3, Barnes 1.1, Champ 0.6.

Meaning Devin has the ball way more than our off the ball scorers and is really ineffective with it.


You're right, that's why I tried looking at these touch stats and he's on the ball a lot more than our other scorers which shouldn't be a thing if he's not going to attack the paint.

Great stuff. Part I don’t understand is why he’s have the ball so long and dribble so much yet be this ineffective, but continue doing it.

It’s the worst possible scenario, you’re wasting valuable possession time, allowing the defence to set up, and “create” a low efficiency shot.

He should just catch and shoot, or catch and drive straight to the basket. anything else is just a bad play.

 

[jeebus]

Spurs were so blindly high on this turd burglar that they never even stopped to think about all his inadequacies.

 

[CrustyCoastBendFan]

Lets also add Vassell rarely makes the extra pass in games he will jack up a shot when he should be making the extra pass sometimes so his shot selection can be iffy at times

Vassell had some classic Vasselling moments in Phoenix, but not the most Vasselling he’s capable of.

For Example, when he does make a pass, it’s like that one to Keldon on the perimeter—only after dribbling the air out of the ball with three seconds left on the shot clock. It was a pass with so much mustard and placed so haphazardly that it made me think of former Spur superfan (Brickowski’s drinking… er… yeah, only drinking… Buddy, sniff sniff) Charlie Sheen’s character in *Major League*, Ricky “Wild Thing” Vaughn. RESULT. TURNOVER off of KELDON's "Fumble" of the pass. With friends like Devin, Keldon doesn’t need enemies.

 

[scott]

Great stuff. Part I don’t understand is why he’s have the ball so long and dribble so much yet be this ineffective, but continue doing it.

It’s the worst possible scenario, you’re wasting valuable possession time, allowing the defence to set up, and “create” a low efficiency shot.

He should just catch and shoot, or catch and drive straight to the basket. anything else is just a bad play.

This was my exact thought about him last year! Whenever he takes more than 2 dribbles, his effectiveness as a player plummets. Catch and shoot, Dev!

 

[dastexan]

Seems like my non hatred of Devin was just temporary. Fuck he needs to go back to the 4th or 5th option and hope some idiot GM sees something more in him and is willing to take that fucking contract and give something back in return.

That's truly going to take a masterclass from Brian Wright to right this wrong!

 

[timtonymanu]

Richard Jefferson 2.0 in the sense that we have to start him because of his contract. Can we bring back the amnesty clause?

Easier said than done, but it would be nice to trade him to get a legit starting 3/4. I agree that Champ should start over him but Champ is also not the long term solution to start imo. I want some Markkanen to Spurs buzz kind of trade activity.

 

[scott]

I'm gonna throw a curveball at everyone and present some stats that may blow your minds...

Last year I observed at one point during the season that Devin Vassell made every lineup combination he participated in worse. This year, that isn't necessarily the case, though the hate for Devin seems to have risen (though I will also add my season average Grade for him is 3.25 and the Community's is 3.14).

Below are the On/Off's for 2-man combinations last year, and this year. These are not small sample sizes either, Vassell has at least 50 minutes playing with each of the players listed (this season). For clarity, the number you see is the difference it NetRating for the player on the left when they share the court with Devin versus when they play without Devin. So a negative number means that the team was worse when Devin played with a given player versus when the player played without Devin. A positive number means the team was better when Devin was on the court with the player.

As you can see, last year, almost every player combination was made WORSE with Devin on the court. But this year, the exact opposite is true, other than with KornDog.

People will knock NetRating, but it's the stat that best represents the stat that matters most: the score. And the fact is that Devin on the court is making our team better this year!

I'm going to be watching as this develops and updating this table. I think Devin has mostly been fine this year (and at time, quite good)... and I'm a Devin hater! $27MM/yr is too much to pay a 13ppg 4th or 5th option... but he's actually doing a good job in that role, salary aside.

I think I might start tracking this for other players as well.......

 

[gilmor2002]

He doesn't have the Spurs mentality of slowing down the offense when opposition defense is in place.. he just wants a quick one. It takes TP like 2-3 seasons to get this as well

 

[Fabbs]

These are not small sample sizes either, Vassell has at least 50 minutes playing with each of the players listed (this season). For clarity, the number you see is the difference it NetRating for the player on the left when they share the court with Devin versus when they play without Devin. So a negative number means that the team was worse when Devin played with a given player versus when the player played without Devin. A positive number m

People will knock NetRating, but it's the stat that best represents the stat that matters most: the score. And the fact is that Devin on the court is making our team better this year!

I'm going to be watching as this develops and updating this table. I think Devin has mostly been fine this year (and at time, quite good)... and I'm a Devin hater! $27MM/yr is too much to pay a 13ppg 4th or 5th option... but he's actually doing a good job in that role, salary aside.

I think I might start tracking this for other players as well.......

Going to need to see many more minutes before forming a season(s) long pattern imo.
He's sucked pretty badly in 3 of the 4 Loss games he has played in. The Golden State "My Time" shot was just pathetic.
Could these have been minutes when Wemby was being Wemby and Barnes was in one of his coma shooting games? (Barnes has had 2 off the charts good shooting nights, no?) Therefore all Devin had to do was be on the court and stay out of the way?
The + #s for the shot season are encouraging of course.
Can, will Vassell keep it up vs quality opponents in crunch time? Let's see.
I await your further chart a month from now.

 

[scott]

Going to need to see many more minutes before forming a season(s) long pattern imo.
He's sucked pretty badly in 3 of the 4 Loss games he has played in. The Golden State "My Time" shot was just pathetic.
Could these have been minutes when Wemby was being Wemby and Barnes was in one of his coma shooting games? (Barnes has had 2 off the charts good shooting nights, no?) Therefore all Devin had to do was be on the court and stay out of the way?
The + #s for the shot season are encouraging of course.
Can, will Vassell keep it up vs quality opponents in crunch time? Let's see.
I await your further chart a month from now.

For sure, that's why I said I want to follow this... but for now all we can go by is the season so far, right?

I'm putting together some tables that show every possible player combination for our Top 10 guys (sorry DJG and CB fans, I'm not putting in that kind of effort just yet). I'll also try to update that every 10 games or so.

 

[Exstatic]

DVHOTTC