Trade Spurs Trade Ideas

[ambchang]

this is a weird thing you’re doing. I’ve seen all of these guys play. Let’s just keep it in the scope of Devin and Jeremy. I’m pretty comfortable with the IQ assessment after watching 100+ games of each. Also have seen enough of Porter that he can be a part of a championship team as a starter, playing off a highly intuitive and versatile center. I’m just taking out of my ass though because we haven’t seen MPJ on a championship team making the necessary plays. And we didn’t see the other guys lead the most pathetic stretch of basketball the league’s seen this decade. Just spit balling.

This is so ridiculous that it's almost funny. Westbrook was an integral part of a team that went to the finals, so he must be high IQ. JR Smith was a freaking starter on a title team that went to the finals and the year after. He must be high IQ too.

Boris Diaw played and started in most games for:
- The Hawks who won 28 and 13 games (not in the playoffs, as in the entire season).
- The Bobcats who won 37, 44, and 29 games in 3 full seasons, and went 5-32 when he was there before he was traded to the Spurs.

I guess Diaw must have been one dumb mofo, but caught some magic potion and became a smart player with Phoenix and the Spurs.

Fact that MPJ played with Jokic, a "highly intuitive and versatile center" means he DIDN'T have to be high IQ to be productive. There's a reason his FG%, 3P% are at an all-time low, his 2P% is the lowest he had outside of his rookie season (and the year he played 9 games because of injuries), and his turnovers are more than doubling his career average despite similar minutes.

 

[twodeep]

This is so ridiculous that it's almost funny. Westbrook was an integral part of a team that went to the finals, so he must be high IQ. JR Smith was a freaking starter on a title team that went to the finals and the year after. He must be high IQ too.

Boris Diaw played and started in most games for:
- The Hawks who won 28 and 13 games (not in the playoffs, as in the entire season).
- The Bobcats who won 37, 44, and 29 games in 3 full seasons, and went 5-32 when he was there before he was traded to the Spurs.

I guess Diaw must have been one dumb mofo, but caught some magic potion and became a smart player with Phoenix and the Spurs.

Fact that MPJ played with Jokic, a "highly intuitive and versatile center" means he DIDN'T have to be high IQ to be productive. There's a reason his FG%, 3P% are at an all-time low, his 2P% is the lowest he had outside of his rookie season (and the year he played 9 games because of injuries), and his turnovers are more than doubling his career average despite similar minutes.

Diaw problem was he was lazy at times and let himself get out of shape that is why after we won the title I did not want to resign him but the Spurs under Pop at times seemed allergic to making changes and brought back the same people. I knew I was correct on my assessment and sure enough Diaw came back fat and lazy and we had to dump him later

 

[ambchang]

One more, on drives, MPJ had a TOV% of 10.2%. The three amigos (DV, KJ and JS) had 6.2, 5.2 and 7.1, all this despite MPJ having assist % of 7.4 and a pass% of only 28.8, while the three amigos having assist % of 8.0, 6.0 and 12.6 and pass % of 37.8, 30.8 and 42.9. How in the world can you pass less than main character Vassell?

EDIT:
Actually two more things.

On passing metrics:

PLAYER	MIN	PASSES MADE	AST	2NDARY AST	POT. AST	AST PTS CREATED	AST ADJ	AST/PASS %	AST/PASS% ADJ
MPJ	33.7	29.3	2.1	0.4	3.2	5.2	2.6	7.3	9.0
Vassell	31.0	33.3	2.9	0.6	5.5	7.4	3.7	8.6	11.0
KJ	23.9	25.4	1.6	0.2	3.2	4.4	2.0	6.4	7.8
Sochan	25.3	27.6	2.4	0.3	3.8	6.2	2.8	8.6	10.1

This is just too funny, if it wasn't for minutes, KJ would have been better at MPJ in every passing metric as well, and he somehow is worse than point sochan after he became regular back up center sochan in every passing metric other than 2ndary assist and passes made, purely due to minutes played. If they played the same minutes, Sochan would be significant better in those stats as well. All this while putting up worse turnover numbers playing with THE best passing big, if not player, ever.

But no, he is high IQ because he played for a winning team. This is just absolute stupidity.

 

[BacktoBasics]

Comparing MPJ’s IQ to the amigos is an interesting maneuver. He is an established professional high pedigree basketball player who has control over his station in the game. That requires a certain threshold of IQ. He’s not an idiot chucking passes into the stands. He just plays a limited type of role. Probably enjoys that it’s easier to be a 3&D than a guy who has to innovate so he’s fine with it.

Meanwhile we’re still potty training certain dudes that have been criticized in recent years.

He’s low IQ off the court too.

 

[Bill Brasky]

MPJ is a regarded, injury prone, spare of a player. Good god no.

 

[Arguendo]

This is so ridiculous that it's almost funny. Westbrook was an integral part of a team that went to the finals, so he must be high IQ. JR Smith was a freaking starter on a title team that went to the finals and the year after. He must be high IQ too.

I've just learned to accept that Schmurs throws out ridiculous takes and its very apparent to me that he either doesn't watch much basketball or he doesn't really understand what is going on.
Really really seems like he has no real historical context or memories of past players. Also extremely clear he doesn't understand team dynamics, roles, scheme, or how those things interact and influence play.

Like if someone could be a great #4 they should play just as efficiently and effectively while being forced to be the #1 guy without a lead guard or quality bigs or a coach running any plays. Everything is exactly how it is- everything is static- progress and development cannot be expected or anticipated. What someone was on an intentionally bad team built to lose is what they will always be.

What someone was on a great, championship team with All-timer(s) is exactly what you should expect them to be on a team built to tank. Teammates, role, and strategy have no impact. Kendrick Perkins won a championship= high IQ/all-timer really, Garnett, Pierce, and Allen played no part. Bruce Bowen is garbage - dude is a 27y/o that can't even get on the court for a terrible 19win terrible Celtics team. There's no consistency in his takes, except they aren't good.

 

[Arguendo]

Diaw problem was he was lazy at times and let himself get out of shape that is why after we won the title I did not want to resign him but the Spurs under Pop at times seemed allergic to making changes and brought back the same people. I knew I was correct on my assessment and sure enough Diaw came back fat and lazy and we had to dump him later

He was probably allergic to not bringing back a guy that was absolutely integral to the beautiful game. That simply doesn't happen without someone like Diaw playing the wholly unselfish connector for 20-25 minutes a game. And there are very few guys that have ever had Diaw's combo of BBIQ/connector skills/unselfishness and general basketball toolkit. It is not a coincidence the Beautiful Game evolved after we got Diaw. That was driven by Manu and Diaw, and fueled by everyone else buying in.

They gave him that 3yrs/$21M contract after 2014 and after he took an undermarket 2yr/$9 (when we were paying Manu, TP, TD & Cap'n Jack big money), he'd earned it. In context, its much more appropriate to look at is as a 5yrs/$31M contract that helped defined what the very best of NBA basketball could be.
Diaw also got votes for 6MOTY his last yr in SA, he was not garbage.

 

[Arguendo]

MPJ is a regarded, injury prone, spare of a player. Good god no.

And making $40M a yr. GOOD. GOD. NO.

 

[Shmurs]

My take is that MPJ has higher basketball IQ than Devin and Jeremy. It is a relative comparison more meant to highlight the deficiencies among the amigos. This is not a wild take unless you are on r/nbaspurs

Very simple thing made out to be very complicated for some reason.

 

[wemvp]

I'd start all 3 of them and stagger. Or let one of Castle or Harper come off the bench and be a 6MOY contender. I don't think the starting thing is that big of a deal for now.

Yep. start Fox, Harper, and Castle with Wemby and Barnes

Finish the game with 2 of Fox, Harper, and Castle with Wemby, Kornet, and a shooter.

On the Trey Murphy thing I saw he has 3 years left at 25m, 30m, and 31m. Could we match salary with him for Vassell and Olynyk and sweeten with picks for NO to rebuild after the Zion failure?

Would he even make sense for this team? He's getting go to man plays in NO this season. He wouldn't get that here, he'd be a shooter/playmaker at the SG/SF position to rotate with Castle and replace Vassell. Feels like he would be an upgrade over Vassell, and a sizeable one, but would he be worth 2 or 3 first round picks it would take?

 

[scott]

Yep. start Fox, Harper, and Castle with Wemby and Barnes

Finish the game with 2 of Fox, Harper, and Castle with Wemby, Kornet, and a shooter.

On the Trey Murphy thing I saw he has 3 years left at 25m, 30m, and 31m. Could we match salary with him for Vassell and Olynyk and sweeten with picks for NO to rebuild after the Zion failure?

Would he even make sense for this team? He's getting go to man plays in NO this season. He wouldn't get that here, he'd be a shooter/playmaker at the SG/SF position to rotate with Castle and replace Vassell. Feels like he would be an upgrade over Vassell, and a sizeable one, but would he be worth 2 or 3 first round picks it would take?

We could get TMIII with Vassell directly (with picks making up the gap of course), but I think the problem is the long term salary commitment.

Also... that might be too much star power on one team (if that's a thing). How do you keep 5 guys like Wemby, Fox, Castle, Harper and TMIII enough touches?

 

[LeBowen]

We could get TMIII with Vassell directly (with picks making up the gap of course), but I think the problem is the long term salary commitment.

For a player like Murphy it wouldn't be because we'd be able to get our investment back a few years down the road if needed.

 

[scott]

For a player like Murphy it wouldn't be because we'd be able to get our investment back a few years down the road if needed.

My concern is that whomever you bring in is going to be a 4th or 5th option, and the casual take will be their regressed, and we won't be able to get our investment back in a few years not because the player has taken a step back but because of role.

We have enough star power, I just want solid role players now.

 

[mo7888]

My concern is that whomever you bring in is going to be a 4th or 5th option, and the casual take will be their regressed, and we won't be able to get our investment back in a few years not because the player has taken a step back but because of role.

We have enough star power, I just want solid role players now.

Somehow we've got to get some more outside shooting. I was hoping it would come from Castle, but as good as he's been in other areas his outside shot doesn't look good. I like the Dean Wade idea. If we could move Sochan + 2nds to get someone on that level or even a guy that's 3 and no-D would help.

 

[ambchang]

My take is that MPJ has higher basketball IQ than Devin and Jeremy. It is a relative comparison more meant to highlight the deficiencies among the amigos. This is not a wild take unless you are on r/nbaspurs

Very simple thing made out to be very complicated for some reason.

lol. First it was must have high iq, then when called out in the college thread it’s at least average, now it’s just higher than Vassell and sochan, which you and only you gets to decide.

Just take the L and move on. Oh wait you can’t because that would:
A) be admitting you either dont watch any basketball outside of the spurs (but i watch highlights! I mean this is just hilarious you’d somehow think you admitting you watch highlights to determine these things is a good thing. You didn’t even watch the finals?), don’t have a clue what bbiq is, or doesn’t watch any basketball at all;
B) tear down your entire facade of being knowledgable even though most people would’ve already known you just pooya on everything;
C) admit your main point of complaint is something you have no clue over and just took it from some instagram or YouTube channel click bait;
D) you actually know nothing about the spurs and is purely a wemby Stan.

 

[Shmurs]

I think you’re unwilling to state your core argument that you think Sochan and Vassell are intelligent players. The crux of the argument isn’t that many words. Porter is a smarter player than both of those guys. You’re free to disagree. Your methods are strange. And I’m not too worried about whatever reputation I have. I think I’m contributing to the discourse with sincere opinions without targeting people. Seems like I’m doing my job on a casual fan message board.

 

[Guru of Nothing]

Somehow we've got to get some more outside shooting. I was hoping it would come from Castle, but as good as he's been in other areas his outside shot doesn't look good. I like the Dean Wade idea. If we could move Sochan + 2nds to get someone on that level or even a guy that's 3 and no-D would help.

Sam Hauser? Problem is that Celtics are dealing intent on reducing salary (They have to make moves before season ends to avoid apron penalties, I forget fine print), so it would likely involve Champ going out. Would we be getting that much more out of Hauser ($10M/yr and locked up for 4 years vs $3M/yr)? Probably not, but maybe if there are more components to a deal. Maybe negotiate with the Boston swap?

 

[RC_Drunkford]

I think it's pretty clear that we need a forward with both: elite perimeter defense and 3-point shooting

 

[mo7888]

Sam Hauser? Problem is that Celtics are dealing intent on reducing salary (They have to make moves before season ends to avoid apron penalties, I forget fine print), so it would likely involve Champ going out. Would we be getting that much more out of Hauser ($10M/yr and locked up for 4 years vs $3M/yr)? Probably not, but maybe if there are more components to a deal. Maybe negotiate with the Boston swap?

I'd be fine with Hauser, but I wouldn't move Champ in that deal. Boston, like you said, has other motivations and might not be the best trade partner.

 

[mo7888]

I think it's pretty clear that we need a forward with both: elite perimeter defense and 3-point shooting

That's exactly what we need, but I'm not sure that's out there and in its absence, I'd still take a forward that can shoot in the short term.

 

[spursfanlikeyou]

Not to rain on anyones parade but we aren't going to make any drastic moves. We all would love to, it just isn't going to happen and that's ok.

Sochan not playing as much definitely shows what the team thinks, if he isn't taking Barnes starting spot within a month or so (he is NOT) then the team views him as a 7th/8th man who provides good defense. I also don't think our power forward for the next 5-10 years should be someone who is 6'6 at best, don't pay attention to what they list online, he's not even close.

We should be in the top 6 in the West by January, that does NOT warrant any moves, just keep developing and let them build.

 

[BatManu20]

Only player I could see potentially being moved before the deadline would be Sochan. That's it. They're not trading Vassell or anyone else tbh. This is an evaluation year for us. They know we're not in contention

MPJ is a regarded, injury prone, spare of a player. Good god no.

You forgot to mention the fact that he's legitimately one of the worst defenders in the NBA (125.5 defensive rating this season is disgusting ) and is owed nearly $40M/per the next 2 years... Hard fucking pass tbh.

 

[BatManu20]

Not to rain on anyones parade but we aren't going to make any drastic moves. We all would love to, it just isn't going to happen and that's ok.

Sochan not playing as much definitely shows what the team thinks, if he isn't taking Barnes starting spot within a month or so (he is NOT) then the team views him as a 7th/8th man who provides good defense. I also don't think our power forward for the next 5-10 years should be someone who is 6'6 at best, don't pay attention to what they list online, he's not even close.

We should be in the top 6 in the West by January, that does NOT warrant any moves, just keep developing and let them build.

Correct. PATFO know this is an evaluation year for us. We're still 1-2 pieces and 2 years away from really competing for a Championship. Only player I could potentially see them dealing before the deadline would be Jeremy and even that seems unlikely to me. Spurs are much more likely to ride things out this season, evaluate, and go from there in the offseason in Free Agency, the trade market, and the Draft.

 

[mudyez]

Am I the only one that thinks, our group of guys is just fine as it is?
At this point trading for a big contract is just salary suicide. Our roleplayers are fine. Keldon seems to be the best version of himself, Vassell the same, in Sochan we have a stopper that has nice synergies with Wemby and whats most important: We will grow as Wemby, Castle and Harper grow.

I get that we could use some more shooting, but that's about it. But Castle, Harper and Bryant by themself may deliver the solution.

Only player I'd like to trade for is TM3, but I feel like that could become to expensive.

 

[mo7888]

Not to rain on anyones parade but we aren't going to make any drastic moves. We all would love to, it just isn't going to happen and that's ok.

Sochan not playing as much definitely shows what the team thinks, if he isn't taking Barnes starting spot within a month or so (he is NOT) then the team views him as a 7th/8th man who provides good defense. I also don't think our power forward for the next 5-10 years should be someone who is 6'6 at best, don't pay attention to what they list online, he's not even close.

We should be in the top 6 in the West by January, that does NOT warrant any moves, just keep developing and let them build.

I don't think anybody is expecting drastic moves. We're talking about small moves around the edges that helps our main guys develop.