Trade Spurs Trade Ideas

[Exstatic]

I'm not a huge MPJ fan, but I'm not against this at all. I do think he'd be a good fit.

I'm completely unaware of whatever Podcast controversy in which you speak, so I reserve the right to have a visceral reaction to that

They called out MPJ, for being a black hole, and he basically said he wouldn’t pass to a lesser shooter than himself. If you want to see this in action, pull up the Wemby reel for 13 point in 3 minutes. MPJ totally threw gas on that fire.

 

[scott]

They called out MPJ, for being a black hole, and he basically said he wouldn’t pass to a lesser shooter than himself. If you want to see this in action, pull up the Wemby reel for 13 point in 3 minutes. MPJ totally threw gas on that fire.

So we'd just be trading Devin for another Devin, but who's a better fit and a shorter (but higher) contract?

Tough call.

 

[Arguendo]

I'm mostly on team "no trade" but if were dealing with NOLA I'd prolly rather target Herb. should be much cheaper, much cheaper contract, can play both forwards.
We already have 2 Stars and 2 young-look-to-be-stars. We need happy role players, Herb fits that bill and should cost a lot less draft capital.

Sochan + Oly for Herb + Bey is a very close salary match, would be a huge upgrade to our Forwards and improve 3pt shooting.
Neither is a LT piece for NOLA, but TMIII is. I'd throw in our 26' w/Hawks swap and 2nds to get it done. See if they bite. Anything more costly and I'm out until we know what this team looks like healthy.

Right now there's 0 reason to rush or empty the war chest. We're not a real contender this season unless SGA and Joker go down. Buy distressed assests on good deals from shitty teams for your distressed assets or just see how it plays out.

 

[Shmurs]

MPJ is very happy to do very little. And I mean that as a compliment as far as his place on this team goes.

He was passive on Denver and as far as I know still a happy camper. I think he’s just a weird amorphous dude who doesn’t think too hard about things and can do well in multiple settings.

 

[Arguendo]

No, they are playing their correct roles. That makes a huge difference. They are both better players off ball than on ball, and you’re seeing that play out.

This, they've never had defined roles before. They grew up in the league being "the guy" and "the 2nd guy" on teams designed to lose as much as possible, then Rook Vic with very scheme, then stroked out coach w/0 scheme + Hurt Wemby + Fox trade/hurt.

They both look to understand their ultimate roles now, and their both doing pretty damn good (Keldon is crushing the small-ball 4, Devin is trying on D like I've never seen and keeping us in games pre-Fox).
Move them in the right trade, but right now they are not negative pieces, they are filling extremely important roles and doing it happily. I'm shocked, my frustration with them is done.

 

[Exstatic]

So we'd just be trading Devin for another Devin, but who's a better fit and a shorter (but higher) contract?

Tough call.

Devin’s career asst% is like 13, MPJs is like 7. They’re not the same. I guess I wouldn’t throw up in my mouth too much if it were just Devin and Lunch Lady, but be warned. His nickname is as hilarious as Lunch Lady, and as on the nose as Street Clothes:

Never Swing The Rock, per bbref.

 

[Arguendo]

If we have 4 allstar type talents I dont believe it will be difficult to move one for parts+space+picks.

Theoretically, but in reality its 1 Generational guy that's totally untouchable, 2 young studs that look to be untouchable for anything less that a Top30 guy on rookie contracts that are hard to match, and 1 former AS on a max deal that will need to play up to his contract and is the only one people will want to move.
Its really just Fox. When the time comes if Castle/Harper look like AS talents, you don't move them. And if their looking like AS talents is very possible Fox isn't and he becomes much harder to move.

 

[Guru of Nothing]

Wow that seems like a crazy price for a guy that was just draft 23rd, has played 5 games, and played less than 60 NBA minutes.

I have good news.

 

[Exstatic]

I'm mostly on team "no trade" but if were dealing with NOLA I'd prolly rather target Herb. should be much cheaper, much cheaper contract, can play both forwards.
We already have 2 Stars and 2 young-look-to-be-stars. We need happy role players, Herb fits that bill and should cost a lot less draft capital.

Sochan + Oly for Herb + Bey is a very close salary match, would be a huge upgrade to our Forwards and improve 3pt shooting.
Neither is a LT piece for NOLA, but TMIII is. I'd throw in our 26' w/Hawks swap and 2nds to get it done. See if they bite. Anything more costly and I'm out until we know what this team looks like healthy.

Right now there's 0 reason to rush or empty the war chest. We're not a real contender this season unless SGA and Joker go down. Buy distressed assests on good deals from shitty teams for your distressed assets or just see how it plays out.

They wanted multiple firsts for Herb last time he was on the market.

 

[DAF86]

Two games after Fox signed his extension (and a full year ahead of when it actually kicks in) and Spurs Fans are still trying to trade him.

I'm clearly not talking about trading him now, but if Harper and Castle become the players we hope they can become, then eventually trading Fox becomes inevitable. You can't afford 4 max type contracts anymore, much less when 3 of those come from the same position.

You also don't want to wait too much to make such a move and lose leverage on what you can get in return. Sorry, but the analysis of trading Fox in the not so distant future will inevitably happen. Maybe a year from now, maybe 2, but it will happen. Or at least I hope it happens because it will mean Castle and Harper become all-star level players.

 

[Robz4000]

I'm clearly not talking about trading him now, but if Harper and Castle become the players we hope they can become, then eventually trading Fox becomes inevitable. You can't afford 4 max type contracts anymore, much less when 3 of those come from the same position.

You also don't want to wait too much to make such a move and lose leverage on what you can get in return. Sorry, but the analysis of trading Fox in the not so distant future will inevitably happen. Maybe a year from now, maybe 2, but it will happen. Or at least I hope it happens because it will mean Castle and Harper become all-star level players.

Castle might already be an All Star-level player tbh.

 

[scott]

I'm clearly not talking about trading him now, but if Harper and Castle become the players we hope they can become, then eventually trading Fox becomes inevitable. You can't afford 4 max type contracts anymore, much less when 3 of those come from the same position.

You also don't want to wait too much to make such a move and lose leverage on what you can get in return. Sorry, but the analysis of trading Fox in the not so distant future will inevitably happen. Maybe a year from now, maybe 2, but it will happen. Or at least I hope it happens because it will mean Castle and Harper become all-star level players.

Things actually line up quite nicely for the Spurs to trade Devin and Fox with two years remaining on their deals, if they need to. That's 3 years away for Fox.

 

[Exstatic]

I'm clearly not talking about trading him now, but if Harper and Castle become the players we hope they can become, then eventually trading Fox becomes inevitable. You can't afford 4 max type contracts anymore, much less when 3 of those come from the same position.

You also don't want to wait too much to make such a move and lose leverage on what you can get in return. Sorry, but the analysis of trading Fox in the not so distant future will inevitably happen. Maybe a year from now, maybe 2, but it will happen. Or at least I hope it happens because it will mean Castle and Harper become all-star level players.

2028 is probably the sweet spot. Castle’s extension kicks in that July, and Fox would have two years left on his deal. Keep the 3 together as long as possible.

 

[Exstatic]

Things actually line up quite nicely for the Spurs to trade Devin and Fox with two years remaining on their deals, if they need to. That's 3 years away for Fox.

Yup.

 

[DAF86]

Theoretically, but in reality its 1 Generational guy that's totally untouchable, 2 young studs that look to be untouchable for anything less that a Top30 guy on rookie contracts that are hard to match, and 1 former AS on a max deal that will need to play up to his contract and is the only one people will want to move.
Its really just Fox. When the time comes if Castle/Harper look like AS talents, you don't move them. And if their looking like AS talents is very possible Fox isn't and he becomes much harder to move.

Exactly. It will come a time next season (hopefully) where keeping Harper on the bench will become unjustifiable. It is at that point that operation "trade Fox" will need to happen, or else you risk one of two things happening: 1, stunting Harper's development or, 2, benching Fox and decreasing his value.

 

[CGD]

I'm clearly not talking about trading him now, but if Harper and Castle become the players we hope they can become, then eventually trading Fox becomes inevitable. You can't afford 4 max type contracts anymore, much less when 3 of those come from the same position.

You also don't want to wait too much to make such a move and lose leverage on what you can get in return. Sorry, but the analysis of trading Fox in the not so distant future will inevitably happen. Maybe a year from now, maybe 2, but it will happen. Or at least I hope it happens because it will mean Castle and Harper become all-star level players.

Yeah, it’s kinda simple math. I like Fox quite a bit, but won’t be shocked if he’s on another team as soon as 18 months from now.

 

[mo7888]

Theoretically, but in reality its 1 Generational guy that's totally untouchable, 2 young studs that look to be untouchable for anything less that a Top30 guy on rookie contracts that are hard to match, and 1 former AS on a max deal that will need to play up to his contract and is the only one people will want to move.
Its really just Fox. When the time comes if Castle/Harper look like AS talents, you don't move them. And if their looking like AS talents is very possible Fox isn't and he becomes much harder to move.

We hope its just Fox. That assumes Castle and Harper reach these expectations we have in our heads. I'm not ready to make future decisions like that based on a hope that everyone reaches their 90th percentile. Still, what happens if they do? Then we're faced with the choice of moving one of them or moving Fox. That's still a great position to be in. The young guys would bring a bigger package, but Fox should still bring back what I suggested if he's still healthy.

 

[Exstatic]

Exactly. It will come a time next season (hopefully) where keeping Harper on the bench will become unjustifiable. It is at that point that operation "trade Fox" will need to happen, or else you risk one of two things happening: 1, stunting Harper's development or, 2, benching Fox and decreasing his value.

I know this has been said before, but maybe you missed it. You can legit play all three at once. No need for Harper to stay on the bench.

 

[DAF86]

Things actually line up quite nicely for the Spurs to trade Devin and Fox with two years remaining on their deals, if they need to. That's 3 years away for Fox.

What do you do with Harper on the meantime? Keep him on the bench? Look how Castle is doing after being given the chance to start, and Harper looks way more advanced than Steph as a rookie.

 

[Exstatic]

We hope its just Fox. That assumes Castle and Harper reach these expectations we have in our heads. I'm not ready to make future decisions like that based on a hope that everyone reaches their 90th percentile. Still, what happens if they do? Then we're faced with the choice of moving one of them or moving Fox. That's still a great position to be in. The young guys would bring a bigger package, but Fox should still bring back what I suggested if he's still healthy.

Castle and Harper are top 4 picks. Their 90th percentile is HOF. All Star is like 70-75th percentile. Castle is well on his way to that already.

 

[DAF86]

I know this has been said before, but maybe you missed it. You can legit play all three at once. No need for Harper to stay on the bench.

Sure, that can happen, but, 1, it is not an ideal fit, and, 2, they will take touches out of each other, which will also result in what I said on that post: stunting Harper's development, decreasing Fox's value, or both, probably.

 

[Exstatic]

What do you do with Harper on the meantime? Keep him on the bench? Look how Castle is doing after being given the chance to start, and Harper looks way more advanced than him as a rookie.

I’m going to keep saying this until your brain processes it.

YOU
CAN
PLAY
ALL
THREE
AT
THE
SAME
TIME

 

[Exstatic]

Sure, that can happen, but, 1, it is not an ideal fit, and, 2, they will take touches out of each other, which will also result in what I said on that post: stunting Harper's development, decreasing Fox's value, or both, probably.

All three of them are better off ball shooters, and would each benefit from playing off the other two. It’s also injury protection. You think Indy wouldn’t have died to have two young jumbo PGs in the wings when Hali went down in the playoffs?

You could actually run The Beautiful Game again.

 

[DAF86]

All three of them are better off ball shooters, and would each benefit from playing off the other two. It’s also injury protection. You think Indy wouldn’t have died to have two young jumbo PGs in the wings when Hali went down in the playoffs?

You could actually run The Beautiful Game again.

You know what happens if the 3 share the court and touches?

-The defense wouldn't be as good as it could be.

-The spacing would be a question mark.

-Castle and Harper wouldn't get as many reps to develop their games to their full potential.

-Fox becomes an 18 ppg guy instead of the 20 something we traded for, therefore decreasing his value and the assets we could get for him.

Can the 3 guard lineup work? Sure, I already said so. Is it the ideal scenario moving forward? No, it clearly isn't.

 

[Arguendo]

They wanted multiple firsts for Herb last time he was on the market.

I assume that was when he was 25 coming off his All-D1 season whre the Pels won 49 games and thought they were contenders, where they traded Daniels & 2 1sts for Dejounte.
Now he's 27 and coming off a 20 games season where he was about useful as Kelly Olynyk. Also, nobody gave what they offered. He's less valuable now, significantly less valuable to a bottom 5 team, and they've had a chance to reset their asking price.
This team just functionally traded two Top10 picks to get the 13th to draft Queen.
I'd make the offer and wouldn't offer more.