Analysis Spurs rotations and depth chart

[sfernald]

Harper has an NBA body already at 19. Given his bloodlines & pedigree, I'd give him significant minutes at the 2, if not starting him. Once Harper shows he can play at NBA speed, I find a new home for Fox's $50,000,000.00 per year extension and go all out for a 4 that compliments Wemby.

That's why I think it's a bit weird so many people don't see him starting (injury aside). He would have been the first pick in the draft last year. With his talent you start him every time. I guess you will have to eventually when he is outplaying the guards but you don't sit guys like that on the bench - he's a potential hall of famer some day.

 

[LeBowen]

As of now Harper and Castle aren't a guarantee of anything.
Fox is and he hasn't even turned 28 yet.
We need to compete and we can't gamble with these kids.
If they turn out to be better than Fox in a year or two, we make the move. Not before that.

As for cap situation, we'll have to make another topic.
In short, unless we're adding another max player, which won't happen, we won't have cap issues until summer 2029 when Harper's extension kicks in. And those problems will arise only if both Castle and Harper develop into max extension players. But then again, would that really be a problem?

 

[Maddog]

As of now Harper and Castle aren't a guarantee of anything.
Fox is and he hasn't even turned 28 yet.
We need to compete and we can't gamble with these kids.
If they turn out to be better than Fox in a year or two, we make the move. Not before that.

As for cap situation, we'll have to make another topic.
In short, unless we're adding another max player, which won't happen, we won't have cap issues until summer 2029 when Harper's extension kicks in. And those problems will arise only if both Castle and Harper develop into max extension players. But then again, would that really be a problem?

I think the only guaranteed minutes barring injury are Fox and Wemby.
I could even see a Fox, Vassell, Champ, Olynyk, Wemby lineup

 

[LeBowen]

I think the only guaranteed minutes barring injury are Fox and Wemby.
I could even see a Fox, Vassell, Champ, Olynyk, Wemby lineup

Exactly, that's why I didn't give anyone more than 25 guaranteed minutes in the opening post. other than Fox and Wemby, obviously.

 

[heyheymymy]

Fox, Castle, Barnes, Olynyk, Wemby
Harper, Vassell, Johnson, Sochan, Kornet
McLaughlin, Waters III, Champ, Bryant, Byombo

 

[Exstatic]

Fox, Castle, Barnes, Olynyk, Wemby
Harper, Vassell, Johnson, Sochan, Kornet
McLaughlin, Waters III, Champ, Bryant, Byombo

That starting forward duo is going to get absolutelyroasted on D, and there no way Julian Champagnie is 3rd team.

 

[heyheymymy]

That starting forward duo is going to get absolutelyroasted on D, and there no way Julian Champagnie is 3rd team.

My post on page 1 has my starting 5 as:

Fox, Castle, Champ, Olynyk, Wemby
Harper, Vassell, Johnson, Barnes, Kornet

But you're right, something's off and I'm still tinkering with variations. That why I said on page 1 I view it more as alternating frameworks you mix and match for each game's needs. Someone out of Johnson, Sochan, Barnes appears to be the odd man out and with new coaching who knows what direction it goes as old norms may no longer apply.

 

[heyheymymy]

Honestly Keldon needs to get pushed to 3rd string Im just afraid they won't do that for culture and tenure/pecking order reasons. But it's a perfect opportunity with Mitch being new, he could say he's not Pop and everyone has to earn it. I am curious if Keldon/Vassell would have any interesting chemistry as a bench duo since they've played so long together but I figure it will probably be dog shit in actuality. If nothing else I think they will feature Keldon to try to get trade value up at least.

 

[heyheymymy]

I also really want to try the Wemby/Olynyk pairing at times maybe even starting.

KO 6'11 6'10 wingspan, big body, can shoot the three. Could be a complete combo

 

[Shmurs]

I have to agree. Starting.

Fox/Castle/Champ/Barnes/Wemby

Bench

Harper/Vassell/Sochan/Oly/Keldon/Luke

Vassell just barely fits anywhere. All Sochan has to do is shoot like 35% from 3 and he might crack the starting rotation.

pitfalls of tanking and giving unearned minutes to raw players: everyone on earth identifies Jeremy as the guy with the embarrassing jump shot. The spurs sent out bulletins to the league for 3 years and his hair is a billboard for it.

His reputation is so destroyed that even if he improves his shot where he’s like 37% on ultra wide open corner 3’s (which still isn’t very good), nobody is going to start guarding him until after the all star break.

The gameplan against the spurs offense is simple. You take the guy who is supposed to guard Jeremy, Castle or Keldon and sag them to take away Vic’s paint game. If castle comes out shooting 40%, he’s getting guarded right away. If Jeremy does the same, nobody will care unless he can do it for 6 months. Which he can’t, of course. This whole thing ends how we knew it was going to end a year and a half ago. He’s going to be an overpaid benc guy.

 

[ambchang]

When did wemby go to a paint game? He shot more 3s than 2s.

Edit: ok not more but almost.

 

[Exstatic]

When did wemby go to a paint game? He shot more 3s than 2s.

Edit: ok not more but almost.

Yeah, people keep wishing that. He has that little thing where if he’s blocked out, he just throws it off the backboard, and goes and gets it for a dunk. If he’s in the open court with the ball,he can literally pick it up at the 3 point line, and in two steps, dunk it. If you bump him off track, he’s already gathered, so he just throws it up, and either gets two FTs or an and1.

 

[Arguendo]

This isn’t fantasy a league. They do that, they’ll ever get another FA or player wanting to come here. You trade him after 3 years, not sooner. Castle and Harper will both be cheap as chips that whole time. Besides, OKC preys on teams with limited initiators. We have 3, and that’s going to be a fucking problem for them, and much sooner than they want.

Depends on timing and wishes, no?
I don't think its hard to imagine a situation in a yr or two where Fox, Castle, and Harper all excel and all playing less minutes than they should. Fox sees a situation he likes where he doesn't have two much younger creators/cutters taking his minutes and reducing his role.
When Fox requested the trade here 2.5 months into the season Castle was much more of a question mark. Getting Harper was pretty unforeseeable.
Smart teams trade high-paid, high-impact players when they have multiple, younger guys with duplicate skill-sets and an imbalanced roster. Smart players and agents request trades to better individual situations (like Fox did already) if their concerned with maximizing their individual impact and/or stats and/or future success.
If Castle and Harper develop abnormally fast, and Fox is playing less and/or has a lesser role than he wants as a 28, 29 y/o its completely rational for him to be happy to move to maximize his talents and the Spurs will go out of their way to have him land where he wants. In that easily foreseeable scenario, it would make the Spurs a more attractive FA destination not a less attractive one.
The #2 pick changed the landscape, it wasn't a reasonably foreseeable event for Fox, Klutch, or the Spurs in January.

If Harper lives up to his potential, him and Fox will pretty much always be a sub-optimal fit, both should be primarily on-ball guys, both will have to sacrifice with the other on the roster. One plus Castle is great, but hard to imagine all 3 ever maximizing synergy together.

 

[Arguendo]

As of now Harper and Castle aren't a guarantee of anything.
Fox is and he hasn't even turned 28 yet.
We need to compete and we can't gamble with these kids.
If they turn out to be better than Fox in a year or two, we make the move. Not before that.

As for cap situation, we'll have to make another topic.
In short, unless we're adding another max player, which won't happen, we won't have cap issues until summer 2029 when Harper's extension kicks in. And those problems will arise only if both Castle and Harper develop into max extension players. But then again, would that really be a problem?

This. I can't imagine this happening with Harper as a rookie unless Fox demands a trade, which I also can't imagine. This is at least a yr away and if it happens, its a good problem to have. Fox's money is not an issue in the short-term, barring multiple injuries.

Best case, Spurs rocket out of the gate and Fox/Wemby face-off in the AS games.

 

[Exstatic]

Depends on timing and wishes, no?
I don't think its hard to imagine a situation in a yr or two where Fox, Castle, and Harper all excel and all playing less minutes than they should. Fox sees a situation he likes where he doesn't have two much younger creators/cutters taking his minutes and reducing his role.
When Fox requested the trade here 2.5 months into the season Castle was much more of a question mark. Getting Harper was pretty unforeseeable.
Smart teams trade high-paid, high-impact players when they have multiple, younger guys with duplicate skill-sets and an imbalanced roster. Smart players and agents request trades to better individual situations (like Fox did already) if their concerned with maximizing their individual impact and/or stats and/or future success.
If Castle and Harper develop abnormally fast, and Fox is playing less and/or has a lesser role than he wants as a 28, 29 y/o its completely rational for him to be happy to move to maximize his talents and the Spurs will go out of their way to have him land where he wants. In that easily foreseeable scenario, it would make the Spurs a more attractive FA destination not a less attractive one.
The #2 pick changed the landscape, it wasn't a reasonably foreseeable event for Fox, Klutch, or the Spurs in January.

If Harper lives up to his potential, him and Fox will pretty much always be a sub-optimal fit, both should be primarily on-ball guys, both will have to sacrifice with the other on the roster. One plus Castle is great, but hard to imagine all 3 ever maximizing synergy together.

You people are still thinking of 3 guys playing one position, instead of our future 1,2,3. The unhappy ones will be DV, and Keldon.

 

[pope]

So with the Harper injury, the starting lineup will almost assuredly be the same as last season, correct? Fox/Castle/Vassell/Barnes/Wemby

 

[Exstatic]

So with the Harper injury, the starting lineup will almost assuredly be the same as last season, correct? Fox/Castle/Vassell/Barnes/Wemby

Chris Paul started 82 games.

 

[Dex]

Seemingly im more up on Sochan still than most on here. So I think he's the starter until his shooting goes to shit. I'm really rooting for him. This is his contract year. And healthy. No excuses!

I want Sochan to excel...it would be great for the Spurs if he did.

But based on the tape...he just doesn't fit anywhere. He is too chaotic and frankly has no BBIQ.

IF his summer shooting videos carry any truth and he can actually shoot the three now...I think he has a chance as a solid role player, but not a starter. And that is a big IF.

 

[scott]

Not 100% sure but I think this might be the baselinebums debut of

Stephon Castle is a 3.

 

[dn0774]

I want Sochan to excel...it would be great for the Spurs if he did.

But based on the tape...he just doesn't fit anywhere. He is too chaotic and frankly has no BBIQ.

IF his summer shooting videos carry any truth and he can actually shoot the three now...I think he has a chance as a solid role player, but not a starter. And that is a big IF.

I'm gonna go ahead and spoil it for everyone in mid-September...he still can't shoot. He still doesn't look like he can shoot. He will still hesitate to shoot. Dude is going to cost himself easily over $100 million throughout the course of his career because he couldn't simply develop a a capable corner 3.

The earliest and most important skill a basketball player needs to develop is their shot and he and his trainers/coaches have failed to do that. The fact he managed to be a one and done lottery pick is a borderline miracle (leave it to the Spurs to fall for the smoke and mirrors of "what he could become if he learns to shoot").

 

[Neuromancer]

What does Sochan even do well? Like he is a solid 1 on 1 defender but his overall team defense is meh. He cannot shoot. He sucks at passing. He isn't a particularly good rebounder. He cannot score unless he's basically wide open under the basket. I like the kid but his schtick is wearing thin since he hasn't developed his game at all to justify his antics. This is a make or break season for him and if I had to bet I'd say break

 

[Kick-Stand]

What does Sochan even do well? Like he is a solid 1 on 1 defender but his overall team defense is meh. He cannot shoot. He sucks at passing. He isn't a particularly good rebounder. He cannot score unless he's basically wide open under the basket. I like the kid but his schtick is wearing thin since he hasn't developed his game at all to justify his antics. This is a make or break season for him and if I had to bet I'd say break

Yeah Sochan's my biggest concern on this roster. Seemed like all his points last season were being spoonfed layups from Wemby's gravity and Manu-esque passing. As much as I like how his defense has improved I think he probably needs to be traded for a better fit because there is no way the Spurs can afford to throw a big contract at him and cost themselves being able to pay a core piece like Castle or Harper. Or paying whoever they trade one of them for if it turns out they can't play well together.

 

[Shmurs]

Sochan, Devin and Keldon are all in the lowest of low tier IQ. Tre Jones was the same. DJM same. This team brings in 19 year olds and then teaches them how to lose and not be accountable for anything, and after long enough there’s no undoing the cognitive impact.

…or we just happen to draft the dumbest players in the NCAA out of coincidence. But really it’s the IQ of Devin and Jeremy above all else that tell you they need to go. They simply don’t know what to do. Keldon too, obviously, but this is the last year of Keldon so it’s sort of whatever.

 

[Exstatic]

Sochan, Devin and Keldon are all in the lowest of low tier IQ. Tre Jones was the same. DJM same. This team brings in 19 year olds and then teaches them how to lose and not be accountable for anything, and after long enough there’s no undoing the cognitive impact.

…or we just happen to draft the dumbest players in the NCAA out of coincidence. But really it’s the IQ of Devin and Jeremy above all else that tell you they need to go. They simply don’t know what to do. Keldon too, obviously, but this is the last year of Keldon so it’s sort of whatever.

Unless you have a crystal ball or inside info, Keldon has two years left on his contract.

 

[Shmurs]

Unless you have a crystal ball or inside info, Keldon has two years left on his contract.

Ahhhh crap. That’s not good.

But certainly someone with the exaggerated mechanics of a 10th century trebuchet will figure out his jump shot eventually.