Game Thread Spurs (23-8) vs Cavs (17-16) (Mon 12/29/25) [7:00 PM CDT]

[spursistan]

Kornet +10
Wemby -17

story of the game

Wemby Has had too many minus (non-blowout) games this season, something that was rare even with much worse supporting cast..

 

[TDomination]

Wemby was so fatigued at the end, obviously his stamina will take a bit to be restored.

On offense, I thought the cavs did a good job on making it difficult to get a basket inside. We couldn’t hit anything from 3 and they knew that so they shut the inside down and it worked. Even Harper and castle had trouble scoring at the basket.

We seriously need to establish Wemby down low more because that is our biggest advantage and because he loves living outside we don’t use it as much as we should.

 

[LeBowen]

I think it‘s more of a communication issue. Against OKC Wemby was directing everybody on defense. Haven‘t seen that intensity in the last 2 games. Watch this video to understand what I‘m talking about.

I think it's more of a who's in the corner issue.
Tomlin was 10-43 from 3pt before last night and we decided to live with it.
Which is even fine, but what's absolutely not fine is the full on drop coverage against high PNRs which leaves opposing ballhandlers with whatever shot they want to take.
We got burned against the Jazz and were lucky that Cavs didn't hit a lot of their shots, but it's another gamble and hope we don't get punished.

If there was a 3pt-paint defense slider, ours is all the way to 100% on the paint defense side, but when opponents get in rythm we're fucked.
It really needs to change and we need to defend the 3pt better even at the cost of giving up some more points in the paint.

And since our role players are streaky shooters, we need to get them more involved early on. I don't want to see Castle as the guy with the most shots.
Q1 stats from last night:
Castle 1-5 FG, 2-2 FT in 7:44.
Vassell 0-2 in 9:58.
Barnes 0-1 (0 3pt) in 7:44.
Champagnie 1-1 in 4:16.
Keldon 1-1 (0 3pt) in 4:16.

Castle took more shots in 7:44 if we include FTs than 4 of our wings in combined 26:14 minutes on the floor.
That just can't ever happen unless he's got wide open lanes. He's not the first or second scoring option.

 

[spursistan]

Obviously you can't continue to bring Wemby off the bench; we're going to have to learn how to win with him playing 30+ minutes. The re-adjustment will not go swimmingly by the looks of it. But it's needed if we want to do any damage in playoffs where star players reign supreme.

 

[LeBowen]

Obviously you can't continue to bring Wemby off the bench; we're going to have to learn how to win with him playing 30+ minutes. The re-adjustment will not go swimmingly by the looks of it. But it's needed if we want to do any damage in playoffs where star players reign supreme.

The issue is that we're trying to run a fluid system where everyone is trusted to make the right decisions, which obviously isn't the case with so many young players.
The question is do we change into a more rigid approach with more defined roles and things certain players shouldn't be allowed to do so we can generate more wins short term or we let these guys lose games and go through growing pains in hope it will pay off long term and that they'll learn from their mistakes.

 

[DaSlicer]

Obviously you can't continue to bring Wemby off the bench; we're going to have to learn how to win with him playing 30+ minutes. The re-adjustment will not go swimmingly by the looks of it. But it's needed if we want to do any damage in playoffs where star players reign supreme.

Agreed the Spurs can win a lot of regular season games having Victor come off the bench but the problem is during the playoffs is when you need star players to perform because defenses can easily counter even a good offense in which there is no star. I remember the Hawks team during the 2015 season that had no legit star but won over 60 plus games but ultimately they got exposed when they played Lebron's Cavs for not having a legit star.

 

[RC_Drunkford]

I think it's more of a who's in the corner issue.
Tomlin was 10-43 from 3pt before last night and we decided to live with it.
Which is even fine, but what's absolutely not fine is the full on drop coverage against high PNRs which leaves opposing ballhandlers with whatever shot they want to take.
We got burned against the Jazz and were lucky that Cavs didn't hit a lot of their shots, but it's another gamble and hope we don't get punished.

If there was a 3pt-paint defense slider, ours is all the way to 100% on the paint defense side, but when opponents get in rythm we're fucked.
It really needs to change and we need to defend the 3pt better even at the cost of giving up some more points in the paint.

And since our role players are streaky shooters, we need to get them more involved early on. I don't want to see Castle as the guy with the most shots.
Q1 stats from last night:
Castle 1-5 FG, 2-2 FT in 7:44.
Vassell 0-2 in 9:58.
Barnes 0-1 (0 3pt) in 7:44.
Champagnie 1-1 in 4:16.
Keldon 1-1 (0 3pt) in 4:16.

Castle took more shots in 7:44 if we include FTs than 4 of our wings in combined 26:14 minutes on the floor.
That just can't ever happen unless he's got wide open lanes. He's not the first or second scoring option.

Mitch needs to go back and run sets for these guys. Usually we used to start out games with a Vassell coming off a down screen shot from midrange. Champagnie and Barnes used to get a lot more wide open looks. He has to call more plays. Wemby post ups at the freethrow line weren't called either. These 2 last games were just basic drive and kick offense with a lot of improvising. It clearly needs more structure. The Cavs were playing smart clogging up the paint to stop us from getting into the lane.

 

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Agreed the Spurs can win a lot of regular season games having Victor come off the bench but the problem is during the playoffs is when you need star players to perform because defenses can easily counter even a good offense in which there is no star. I remember the Hawks team during the 2015 season that had no legit star but won over 60 plus games but ultimately they got exposed when they played Lebron's Cavs for not having a legit star.

Felt a similar issue for the 2018 Raptors

 

[Hyrup]

Kornet +10
Wemby -17

story of the game

 

[Ice009]

I think it‘s more of a communication issue. Against OKC Wemby was directing everybody on defense. Haven‘t seen that intensity in the last 2 games. Watch this video to understand what I‘m talking about.

Alright, will watch it a bit later, thanks.

 

[Manu20]

Difficult to win when it seemed no spurs could score consistently. Looking at the bright spot....this was a very winnable game even though a lot of player had an off game.

Barnes 27 minutes 1-7 from the field
Fox 32 minutes 4-13 from the field
Vassell 30 minutes 3-10 from the field
Harper with 4 TO and 1 assist

 

[Shmurs]

Wemby gets an exceptionally bad whistle and it’s leading to a lot of him getting smacked in the head and face. Mitch needs to pick a day to get thrown out or pick a day to get a fine.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

While annoyed, like everybody else, no reason to panic the day after. Just prior to this bad little stretch they were 14-3 in the last 17 games obviously beating Oklahoma City numerous times. But we have to clean up the offensive execution, stop going 1 on 1 so much., make three points shots, rebound better, etc. But the team is deep and talented so it’ll be alright.

 

[Ice009]

Wemby gets an exceptionally bad whistle and it’s leading to a lot of him getting smacked in the head and face. Mitch needs to pick a day to get thrown out or pick a day to get a fine.

Yeah, he is getting fouled and no calls. Doesn't excuse his play, but Mitch needs to stand up for his players a lot more demonstrably than he has been.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Wemby gets an exceptionally bad whistle and it’s leading to a lot of him getting smacked in the head and face. Mitch needs to pick a day to get thrown out or pick a day to get a fine.

He does get a bad whistle, but I’m really getting sick of seeing him setting up constantly at the three-point line and trying to drive the ball. I just don’t think that’s going to be his game.

 

[Sugus]

Plenty of people have noted Wemby falling down a lot, but has anyone noticed that this didn't use to happen frequently at all until the OKC games, especially the last one where Dort went at Wemby's shins and he fell down in pain twice??

Wemby's always had that "baby deer" look to his game because of the size, but he really didn't randomly fall to the ground to end possessions (I'm not talking about getting stripped). But in the Jazz and last night's game, as with OKC, he seems to be falling down with no apparent cause/contact and just taking a bit to get up.

Sucks because of the new availability rules - the team could absolutely use a rest for him and a "regrouping" time as they've built up a cushion of wins, but Wemby is hugely disinclined to sit out, even for valid medical reasons. Fucked up rule change tbh.

 

[Sugus]

The issue is that we're trying to run a fluid system where everyone is trusted to make the right decisions, which obviously isn't the case with so many young players.
The question is do we change into a more rigid approach with more defined roles and things certain players shouldn't be allowed to do so we can generate more wins short term or we let these guys lose games and go through growing pains in hope it will pay off long term and that they'll learn from their mistakes.

This is only a "question" because the Spurs seem to have "skipped" so many steps on their rebuild that the early returns have fans, and players/coaches alike, over-excited and anxious to reap the rewards of what really should be a multi-year learning process.

The Spurs' biggest star is 21 years old, and despite the All-Star PG alongside him, our other core pieces are also terribly young. If they can't be allowed to make mistakes now, when will they, tbh?

 

[Kick-Stand]

Some of the 3 point defense was laughable last night. Wemby was a huge part of the problem with his lack of discipline and ability or desire to close out on 3 point shooters.

Here’s just a snippet from the start of the second quarter. This wasn’t where the game was won or lost but it’s an absolute tell tale of a bigger problem defending the 3 which ended by biting them in the ass by the time the 4th quarter came and the Cavs started hitting and the Spurs went cold. Again this is just the first 2 minutes and 30 seconds of the 2nd quarter .

First three attempt by Tomlin was a wide open miss. Wemby falls over like a baby giraffe on offense for the millionth time, leads to a 5 on 4, wide open 3 from Tomlin is missed as Wemby crosses half court.

Second three attempt is a make by Mitchell. Basic back screen by Porter on Fox that frees up Mitchell for a WIDE open 3 from the corner/wing. Barnes was guarding Porter is just ball watching Mobley backing down Wemby, why are you even that concerned with ball watching when Wemby as a one on one post defender against Mobley is a win for the Spurs. Barnes has absolutely zero fucking awareness to switch onto Mitchell after Fox gets picked off even tho his own man screens Fox. Terrible defense by Barnes.

Third three attempt is a make by Tomlin. This is hilarious. Bryant defends beautifully but the 7’5 Center is standing in the paint leaving his man wide open in the corner on the strong side for a wide open 3. First Mitchell drives into the paint guarded by Champ, Wemby leaves his man Tomlin under the basket and rotates to stop Mitchells drive. It was a good rotation by Wemby even tho Champ had Mitchell on his hip. Bryant helps the helper and rotates off Hunter to Tomlin to stop the alley oop pass, leaving Hunter open at the 3 point line. Mitchell kicks it out to Hunter, Bryant scrambles back out and stone walls a Hunter drive to the basket. Hunter steps back out to the 3 point line and pump fakes a 3, Bryant contests but does a good job of not fouling, meanwhile Tomlin is now standing wide open in the corner right next to Hunter on the strong side, while Wemby stands under the basket. Hunter starts his shooting motion and Wemby turns and faces the basket seemingly to get the rebound, meanwhile Hunter passes it to Tomlin for a wide open corner 3. Wemby makes a fake attempt to close out. Bang, corner 3.


Next offensive possession Wemby on the floor again. Turnover.

Next 3 is a make again by Tomlin. Real amateur hour defense again. Exact same spot in the corner, again it was Wembys man. This time it wasn’t all Wembys fault. Mitchell gets a slip screen from Mobley which absolutely destroys Barnes. Leaves Barnes near the half court line and both he and Castle about 5 feet behind Mitchell as he drives inside the arc, Wemby is forced to rotate to Mitchell who kicks it out to Tomlin in the corner wide open 3. Absolutely zero communication and pathetic defense by Barnes and Castle. Barnes shows way too hard like he’s switching onto Mitchell, Castle doesn’t switch to Mobley and just gets blown by by Mitchell, Wemby forced to rotate to Mitchell but he could have played both Mitchell and Tomlin and forced Mitchell to make a decision instead he just completely left Tomlin.

Wemby's defensive role is to roam the paint and guard everyone who comes in it so I'm ok not having him drawn out to the three point line most of the time. Defense wasn't at all the problem last night IMO as Cleveland only shot 42.7% from the field and 31% from the three, and also really didn't start shooting a bunch of FT until garbage time. Definitely get tired of Wemby trying to dribble from the three point line and like you say, end up looking like a baby giraffe scrambling to stay on his feet as everyone swipes at his terrible handle though. He's really gotta learn when he can put the ball on the floor and when he must play as a big. You'd think he would have learned this by Year 3 but he keeps trying to be something he's not. Drives me nuts seeing him try to dribble into the paint for the poster jam when the lane is clogged. Ugh why not dribble from the right elbow to the low block just outside the paint if the spacing allows and then throw up a baby hook or something off the glass? I question if Mitch even has Victor watching tape. I know Pop used to have Kawhi watch tape of Charles Barkley and it made his post game devastating.

 

[Fireball]

Falling down is a way to reduce pressure on your ligaments. As long as this falling is controlled so you do not hurt your hip, back or head, I have no problem with it.
Of course, it takes Victor longer to get back on defense which resulted in one of those three pointers shown above in the pics.

 

[Kick-Stand]

Plenty of people have noted Wemby falling down a lot, but has anyone noticed that this didn't use to happen frequently at all until the OKC games, especially the last one where Dort went at Wemby's shins and he fell down in pain twice??

Wemby's always had that "baby deer" look to his game because of the size, but he really didn't randomly fall to the ground to end possessions (I'm not talking about getting stripped). But in the Jazz and last night's game, as with OKC, he seems to be falling down with no apparent cause/contact and just taking a bit to get up.

Sucks because of the new availability rules - the team could absolutely use a rest for him and a "regrouping" time as they've built up a cushion of wins, but Wemby is hugely disinclined to sit out, even for valid medical reasons. Fucked up rule change tbh.

Gotta disagree, Wemby dribbling into the turnover (and usually ending up on the ground) has been a major problem since Day 1. I could understand it when the team was running Point Sochan but with three high end point guards now who can and do feed him great looks it's ridiculous that he still does this low percentage move constantly. Ugh if he just operated from the high post where he's one dribble from the rim he could be so devastating an offensive option being uber athletic Vlade Divac. And before anyone shits on that Vlade in the high post was the engine of that incredible 02 Kings offense.

 

[Sugus]

Falling down is a way to reduce pressure on your ligaments. As long as this falling is controlled so you do not hurt your hip, back or head, I have no problem with it.
Of course, it takes Victor longer to get back on defense which resulted in one of those three pointers shown above in the pics.

Well, it depends -- sure falling is a better landing on the joints than a hard stop if you're jumping, but falling is not preferable to simply not falling if the play doesn't call for it.... Which is why I'm concerned about these latest falls from him, where he's not only falling but actively grimacing at his shins/legs when he does.

Hopefully a nothing burger but it's happened a bit too frequently in the past 3 games for my liking

 

[100%Duncan]

Plenty of people have noted Wemby falling down a lot, but has anyone noticed that this didn't use to happen frequently at all until the OKC games, especially the last one where Dort went at Wemby's shins and he fell down in pain twice??

Wemby's always had that "baby deer" look to his game because of the size, but he really didn't randomly fall to the ground to end possessions (I'm not talking about getting stripped). But in the Jazz and last night's game, as with OKC, he seems to be falling down with no apparent cause/contact and just taking a bit to get up.

Sucks because of the new availability rules - the team could absolutely use a rest for him and a "regrouping" time as they've built up a cushion of wins, but Wemby is hugely disinclined to sit out, even for valid medical reasons. Fucked up rule change tbh.

I wonder if it’s the same with Embiid, I think big guys are taught to fall down and go with the flow of the impact to lessen injuries.

 

[Sugus]

Gotta disagree, Wemby dribbling into the turnover (and usually ending up on the ground) has been a major problem since Day 1. I could understand it when the team was running Point Sochan but with three high end point guards now who can and do feed him great looks it's ridiculous that he still does this low percentage move constantly. Ugh if he just operated from the high post where he's one dribble from the rim he could be so devastating an offensive option.

No, I said that because (to me at least) Wemby seems to be "falling different" since the OKC games, as in "falling due to pain" instead of "tripping while getting stripped" that he usually does. I don't know if there's any public tracking data on players' falls but it just seemed notorious to me, he was grabbing at his shins/legs which he doesn't normally do.

As far as Wemby dribbling into a turnover, yeah, shouldn't happen so much with the number of guards on the team. But I also don't really like to seem him operating from the high post - he seems to be stripped much more than he can make the 1 power dribble moves, and our guards can't seem to help telegraphing their every entry pass to him. At this point, I'd like to see him as a decoy, fake the pass and have the guard drive past him instead

 

[100%Duncan]

Wemby needs to figure it out obviously. Casuals keep saying to bring him back off the bench, but that shit just wont fly. Even if it’s for the betterment of the team, which I dont agree with at all.

There’s ego in this, and rightfully so. Plus in the playoffs, your stars will be the one to win games. Should go without saying.

 

[RC_Drunkford]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2005860995953029131