Player The unfortunately low-ceilinged Shaolin monastery of Victor Wembanyama

[Shmurs]

You can be impressed by their efficiency but not by the basketball they play.

You can also add context and realize how the league is in an unstable era and most teams are in a rebuilding process just when okc finished theirs.

They're clearly the favorite (with denver bc Jokic is by far the best player today) but more by default, hence some "defiance".

If you take away the constant fouling and Shai exploiting the rules in a pretty grotesque way, OKC still is good of course. But they’re just regular good. Denver good. They won the title and rack up regular season wins because they take advantage of the known flaws of human officials.

For that reason, I’m not nearly as impressed with them as their record should dictate. But still fairly impressed overall.

 

[Ice009]

I don't remember what Shai's dad said (it's worth watching IMO), but he was on Gil's Arena last season and he did discuss the foul baiting. Again, I don't remember exactly what he said, but I think he said something like it's on the defender not to fall for it. It's not Shai's fault if the defender falls for it or the official calls it. I might try and find it and go back and watch it. It's cool that his dad recognized it and didn't shy away talking about it. I think the interview was around the time of the all-star game or just after it.

Here's the video. Worth watching IMO.

 

[Shmurs]

I don't remember what Shai's dad said (it's worth watching IMO), but he was on Gil's Arena last season and he did discuss the foul baiting. Again, I don't remember exactly what he said, but I think he said something like it's on the defender not to fall for it. It's not Shai's fault if the defender falls for it or the official calls it. I might try and find it and go back and watch it. It's cool that his dad recognized it and didn't shy away talking about it. I think the interview was around the time of the all-star game or just after it.

Yeah it’s technically a foul when he sees someone’s arms going low and then intentionally hacks himself. It’s technically a foul.

And he’s technically a person without professional integrity or any sense of fair competition and is happy to win on technicalities. He shouldn’t go to jail but this is why f’in nobody thinks the MVP is in the discussion for best player.

 

[brazil]

Yeah it’s technically a foul when he sees someone’s arms going low and then intentionally hacks himself. It’s technically a foul.

And he’s technically a person without professional integrity or any sense of fair competition and is happy to win on technicalities. He shouldn’t go to jail but this is why f’in nobody thinks the MVP is in the discussion for best player.

what ? why are you talking about professional integrity ? The fact you know the rules and exploit them to your full advantage is lacking of integrity ?... smh He does nothing very different of what Harden, Curry and many others are doing... he is just doing it better. I'd love to have his ass playing for the Spurs or Castle, Harper molding their bait fouling on him. We are here complaining for instance about the fact a Spurs player does not know how to sell a foul.

Fair competition is for pussies sorry, fair competition is NBA GM issue not the players.. he is doing nothing against the rules, it's like saying shooting threes from the logo is unfair and not in the spirit of fair competition. Blame the game and the referees not the players.

 

[Rasho]

Lol. Tim Duncan made a career by making defenders pay for extending their arms into his space.

 

[Shmurs]

Sorry - if that’s your defined gameplan going into the possession/game/season I think you don’t have integrity. That’s right. Timmy didn’t make it so that his advantage was that guys were scared to breath on him.

And bringing up harden is good for my argument, I think. He was shameful. Still would be if he was younger.

Curry gets mauled. He also wants to get his shots off. Hes not a foul baiter. Shai desperately doesn’t even want to shoot. He just wants to be at the line.

Butler is the 2nd worse behind Shai but he doesn’t do that every night. But that’s probably because he doesn’t try to do much at all for most of the year.

Embiid also a good example of integrity and foul baiting going hand in hand.

There are dozens of stars who could play this way but don’t. Shai made the bargain he’s ok being cheap. But he looks cool and is polite so he gets away with it a little.

 

[PanameSpur]

I am not sure how you translate not being impressed by the basketball they play, you may dislike watching them but this is another topic. I understand the argument about going to 7 games, I also the argument about teams rebuilding etc... but it is an elite team doing elite things.. there is no fluke being the best defensive team of the league and SGA is clearly a top 3 player. I don't know how you'd rank them against recent LOBT winners but they are the champs and favorites to win another one. Back to back is increasingly difficult to achieve of course but they are 12 and 1 even if their schedule has not been very challenging so far.

Because when I watch sport, I try to always remember to take the level of the opposition and context into account when analysing a team's performance.

In wins and losses.

They're very good, I'm not dismissing them, I just see a very weak NBA in terms of elite teams for rational reasons (in between 2 eras with a lot of stars on their way out/not as performing, all the new faces being in dev stage/not mture enough or not up to expectations, most teams in constant rebuilding mode bc of multiple reasons, mostly a handicapping cba, the 3pts shooting that is a sort of eraser where u can play badly but erase that by being good/hot for short spans on 3s (it's a caricature but u get my point), etc)

Also, as much as SGA is great, I have a hard time respecting players manipulating refs with constant foul baiting and non-called offensive fouls where he extends his arms all the time to create space. It's just me, I get I'm in the minority but it is what it is...

 

[brazil]

Because when I watch sport, I try to always remember to take the level of the opposition and context when analysis a team's performance.

In wins and losses.

They're very good, I'm not dismissing them, I just see a very weak NBA in terms of elite teams for rational reasons (in between 2 eras with a lot of stars on their way out/not as performing, all the new faces being in dev stage/not mture enough or not up to expectations, most teams in constant rebuilding mode bc of multiple reasons, mostly a handicapping cba, the 3pts shooting that is a sort of eraser where u can play badly but erase that by being good/hot for short spans on 3s (it's a caricature but u get my point), etc)

Also, as much as SGA is great, I have a hard time respecting players manipulating refs with constant foul baiting and non-called offensive fouls where he extends his arms all the time to create space. It's just me, I get I'm in the minority but it is what it is...

To each on his own bro... but you are selling OKC very short. For the rest that's indeed just you but then you have to apply same criteria for your own teams including the Spurs and be fine with other fans calling Duncan Spurs boring, with the 99 *, the finals vs. eastern teams historically bad Knicks / Nets, manu flopper etc etc

I'm not in his camp, you don't choose your opponents, you play based on your abilities, you stretch as much as you can the rules (great example is Formula 1).. I mean would you be mad if Spurs had a SGA and won foul baiting like crazy ? makes no sense to me

 

[Shmurs]

I wouldn’t be mad if the spurs did what OKC did on both ends. But if that was us and other teams wanted to diminish our talent and call us cheaters I’d be like…ok fair point. But what are you gonna do.

 

[PanameSpur]

To each on his own bro... but you are selling OKC very short. For the rest that's indeed just you but then you have to apply same criteria for your own teams including the Spurs and be fine with other fans calling Duncan Spurs boring, with the 99 *, the finals vs. eastern teams historically bad Knicks / Nets, manu flopper etc etc

I'm not in his camp, you don't choose your opponents, you play based on your abilities, you stretch as much as you can the rules (great example is Formula 1).. I mean would you be mad if Spurs had a SGA and won foul baiting like crazy ? makes no sense to me

I'm fine with everything you said.

I differentiate the levels of entertainment and difficulty. They don't always go together

Spurs-Piston is of the best Finals in History in terms of bb level but poor in terms of entertainment for the neutrals.

Neither am I saying it's their fault, good for them. It's just a cold observation, not a biased one bc I'm a Spurs fan.

This is the weakest the NBA has ever been at the top, teams have never had more rosters turnovers, the league is also in between 2 eras with all the lebron, Steph, Harden, Westbrook, PG etc on their way out and the new faces (Ant Luka Wemby ...) not ready to take over.

Okc benefits a lot from timing, it's all I'm saying

 

[Quentin_Compson]

I mean, Spurs-Pistons was REALLY rough basketball offensively, and not just because it was two great defensive teams going against each other.

 

[Ice009]

I'm not in his camp, you don't choose your opponents, you play based on your abilities, you stretch as much as you can the rules (great example is Formula 1).. I mean would you be mad if Spurs had a SGA and won foul baiting like crazy ? makes no sense to me

Can I ask what they do in Formula 1. I don't watch it, but curious what sort of stuff they do in that to stretch the rules.

I mean, Spurs-Pistons was REALLY rough basketball offensively, and not just because it was two great defensive teams going against each other.

I loved the intense games of that series. Both teams applied so much pressure on defense, it felt like who is going to fold under the pressure, would lose the game/s. It was great basketball to me.

 

[ambchang]

Wemby has been displaying low BBIQ, @Shmurs who should we trade him for?

 

[brazil]

Can I ask what they do in Formula 1. I don't watch it, but curious what sort of stuff they do in that to stretch the rules.

Each year Formula 1 authorities publish a huge book of what you can do or not regarding electronics, dimensions, weight, tires, driving assistance etc.. you look at everything and try to take advantage of any loophole or pushing inovation. One of the recent prime example is Mercedes DAS a system labelled as steering system but used to control suspension "legal" but immediately banned one year after. Another was Benetton driving electornic aids hidden into complex software, illegal but extremely difficult to prove, Benetton was condamned to pay fines as authorities could never prove the use during racing. Formula 1 is driven by inovation that aims at stretching rules basically.

 

[Ice009]

Each year Formula 1 authorities publish a huge book of what you can do or not regarding electronics, dimensions, weight, tires, driving assistance etc.. you look at everything and try to take advantage of any loophole or pushing inovation. One of the recent prime example is Mercedes DAS a system labelled as steering system but used to control suspension "legal" but immediately banned one year after. Another was Benetton driving electornic aids hidden into complex software, illegal but extremely difficult to prove, Benetton was condamned to pay fines as authorities could never prove the use during racing. Formula 1 is driven by inovation that aims at stretching rules basically.

Thanks. That's super interesting. I'm guessing rival teams would be upset about some of that stuff and kicked up a fuss?

 

[brazil]

Thanks. That's super interesting. I'm guessing rival teams would be upset about some of that stuff and kicked up a fuss?

Indeed basically rivals closely look at the performance of the most competitive cars (acceleration, braking, tires angles, consumption...) but also take bunch of photos to study what aerodynamic elements can explain some slight competitive advantages... it is very comun to see a team making a denunciation to FIA to question car performance, most of the official investigation starts from there. IIRC Red Bull was the whistle blower regarding Mercedes DAS system. As you can also imagine every other year there are spying scandals popping up.

 

[Shmurs]

Wemby has been displaying low BBIQ, @Shmurs who should we trade him for?

Yeah I don’t know. He should learn from the 2 amigos that you’ve said are smart players. He has a lot of expert tutelage available.

 

[ambchang]

Yeah I don’t know. He should learn from the 2 amigos that you’ve said are smart players. He has a lot of expert tutelage available.

I said they are smart players? When? Where?

I never even said they aren’t dumb, just not particularly dumb compared to the average nba role player. But that probably went over your head like a wemby three pointer.

 

[benefactor]

I love that Baseline bums already has a resident bad take guy

 

[Corso]

I love that Baseline bums already has a resident bad take guy

Raven is here too.

 

[Neuromancer]

Shmurs is definitely Mr. Body

 

[ambchang]

Raven is here too.

Though I have to say raven got a few right.

 

[Corso]

Though I have to say raven got a few right.

Blind squirrels and nuts are real

 

[BatManu20]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1989379550049194043

 

[BatManu20]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1989428511228985647