Player The unfortunately low-ceilinged Shaolin monastery of Victor Wembanyama

[MannyIG]

Another problem with the league rule -- it puts players on the margins risking themselves who are already injured in order to pass an arbitrary benchmark.

It was fine before. Voters priced in whether players were available and how many games they played. Once again this is Silver trying to solve one problem (load management) in the wrong way.

Yeah no, it was NOT fine before. Fans don't want to pay to go see stars and get injury management. This raises the bar for that. I think its fine if they look for tweeks, but this is the rule WORKING. These games mean something now. And its not just the games we have left, but the ones throughout the season where Wemby might have sat but instead played because of this rule.

Load management hit a really big mark a few years back and we're seeing the pushback on that take shape. I am all for that.

 

[cediskace]

Danny Green just argued that "total minutes" played should also be considered, rather than just games, for postseason awards. not that this would have helped Wemby any. lol

it's becoming more and more ridiculous...... they have to get rid of this rule...... why not number of possessions used by a player then ? you can spend 30 minutes in a game doing way less than someone else in 20 minutes ?

pffff; this trophy is a popularity trophy. nothing scientific or objective about it. they should as well let the journalist who vote fot their favorite player take in account like they want the number of games played.

 

[MannyIG]

Its pretty simple y'all. If Wemby can't play the required 65 games, then he's not DPOY. Simple as that. I'm OK with that. I also see absolutely no reason to think he's not going to play in at least one of these final games

 

[Mugen]

Yeah I don't think they need to do away with it completely and it sounds like they won't.

I like adding the minutes OR 65 game threshold tweak. I like having 2nd and/or 3rd team all nba not being tied to it. Decoupling how it affects contract extensions, supermaxes, etc. is probably also worth taking a look at.

The best solution would be reducing the number of regular season games but that's not gonna happen. So i'm still for whatever incentivizes star players to actually play tbh.

 

[Ice009]

Its pretty simple y'all. If Wemby can't play the required 65 games, then he's not DPOY. Simple as that. I'm OK with that. I also see absolutely no reason to think he's not going to play in at least one of these final games

Not fair when the guy is FAR AND AWAY the best defensive player in the league and looking to be the best defensive player ever to not have a DPOY award. Missing it by a one game cutoff, that would be a joke. I don't agree with the rule at all.

If they're going to keep the game threshold, it should be 25-30% games missed. I think 30% personally, or just round up to 60 games to make it about 27% games missed.

 

[brazil]

Yeah no, it was NOT fine before. Fans don't want to pay to go see stars and get injury management. This raises the bar for that. I think its fine if they look for tweeks, but this is the rule WORKING. These games mean something now. And its not just the games we have left, but the ones throughout the season where Wemby might have sat but instead played because of this rule.

Load management hit a really big mark a few years back and we're seeing the pushback on that take shape. I am all for that.

The issue is that NBA tries to solve a problem that NBA created... everybody knows that 82 games in 6 months is too much but then you add more games, play in, nba cup finals.... The 65 games rule is fucking dumb and makes 0 sense, load management became a thing because NBA has never had the courage to tackle the root causes... too many games. Back to back games is insane concept, 4 / 5 games a week is insane especially considering the distance you need to cover.

NBA has depreciated his own product. Less games better quality not that hard.

You either play 82 games over a longer period of time or you reduce that to 65 (it seems to be THE magic number).

BTW why 65, why not 66 or 80 or 50 ? what NBA thought it would happen tbh ? that never a star player would be uneligible because of 1 or 2 games or 10 mn ? Also I am not familiar with working law in the US but how legally is it allowed, you can reduce salary/contract because of injuries you got doing your profession ? I would not be surprised to see a legal action against NBA if ever a player has a lower contract due to this.

 

[bozhemoi]

Yeah no, it was NOT fine before. Fans don't want to pay to go see stars and get injury management. This raises the bar for that. I think its fine if they look for tweeks, but this is the rule WORKING. These games mean something now. And its not just the games we have left, but the ones throughout the season where Wemby might have sat but instead played because of this rule.

Load management hit a really big mark a few years back and we're seeing the pushback on that take shape. I am all for that.

I mean it's fine the way the award was handled before, not load management. And I'm right -- they don't need these arbitrary rules like 65 games. It's not working. It's a stupid rule and making things worse.

If load management is a problem, figure out some other way.

But the secret is that players are missing time from injuries because the game is being played much faster than it was before. No one's willing to talk about this and the wear and tear it's putting on bodies.

 

[bozhemoi]

If you don't want players to get hurt, then reduce the number of games, reduce the number of back-to-backs, do something for THAT, don't create stupid benchmarks like the 65.

 

[eric365]

Spurs will have the 2nd best record in the league whatever they do.
Okc are not losing 3 games

Just let wemby stand midcourt for 20 minutes in any of the 3 remaining games

Let say spurs do that against Portland and let them win playing 4 against 5. It will be funny to see clippers fans be mad

 

[Mugen]

They’ll never ever reduce the number of games unfortunately.

 

[Mugen]

Spurs will have the 2nd best record in the league whatever they do.
Okc are not losing 3 games

Just let wemby stand midcourt for 20 minutes in any of the 3 remaining games

Let say spurs do that against Portland and let them win playing 4 against 5. It will be funny to see clippers fans be mad

That’s not who we are tbh. I’d be ashamed if they did something that clown like

 

[bozhemoi]

They’ll never ever reduce the number of games unfortunately.

I agree, and I don't actually think they should. Makes it hard to compare players and records across eras. I'd start the season even earlier and eliminate as many back-to-backs as possible. Pre-season isn't very important.

 

[Coyote2!]

Its pretty simple y'all. If Wemby can't play the required 65 games, then he's not DPOY. Simple as that. I'm OK with that. I also see absolutely no reason to think he's not going to play in at least one of these final games

The requirement that a player reach 65 games is so arbitrary though. Is there something special that happens when a player reaches 65 games that rubber stamps a player's season as being valid? Establishing a minimum threshold for awards is stupid for the simple reason that voters implicitly factor in on-court time into their decisions. A player that plays 35-40 games (like Embiid) isn't going to get the nod for all-NBA or MVP in any season because voters understand that he hasn't been on the court enough to move the needle on his team's success. It's obvious that players like Cade, Luka, and Wemby have been impactful enough, despite being at risk of going below that threshold. All this rule does is potentially force players to play through injury risk before they've had the chance to recover.

 

[Ice009]

You either play 82 games over a longer period of time or you reduce that to 65 (it seems to be THE magic number).

I never want the games to be lowered. I don't like that idea as it means the records are changed too much if the amount of games are shortened, it can screw with all the records. And then the other reason is, if a player is injured in shorter season, that may rule them out for the season, whereas, with an 82 game season, that player might be able to come back and play at the end of the season or the playoffs. Those are the two reasons I don't like a shorter season at all.

I've always wanted the season to be longer. There is no reason you can't eliminate all back to backs if they just start the season one whole month earlier. Just start the season Oct. 1st or maybe the last week of Sept. Have training camp start on September 1st and take out all back to back games. Give that a go first and see what happens with that before ever consider lowering games.

 

[spurraider21]

regular season being long is why depth matters. lakers playing Luka/Reaves for 37-38 mpg down the stretch, LeBron at his age playing 35mpg down the stretch is begging for something to go wrong. we all know rotations shorten during the postseason where there are no back to backs anymore and you are frequently getting even 2 days off between games, let alone time between series'

same happens in baseball with pitching rotations. you have a 5 man rotation in the regular season, put guys on pitch counts, but then in the postseason the rotations shorten and guys strain a bit more.

Fox leads the spurs in minutes per game, averaging just under 31 minutes. surely in the playoffs wemby would be averaging 33-34+ minutes. meanwhile houston is playing with fire with Amen/Durant being the NBA's leaders in total minutes played, and Jabari 7th

so depth is part of it... but i still think the NBA season is just too congested. too many back to backs still, and having consecutive days off is far too infrequent.

 

[Tom-Tom82]

This is the downside of playing it too safe with Wemby's load: Freak injuries happen. I don't know how he exactly felt pre- Denver & Clippers games he missed, but when you know it will be close shave for 65-game requirement, players don't usually skip those types of games even when not at 100 percent. It would be a crying shame if lose out on DPOY in extremis because of this miscalculation.

My thoughts exactly!! I said they were playing with fire when they sat him against the Clippers.

 

[BatManu20]

Spurs currently outscoring opponents by 17 points per 100 possessions with Wemby on the court this season:

• 120.2 Offensive Rating (2nd)
• 103.2 Defensive Rating (1st)
• +17 Net Rating (1st)

MVP.

 

[spursistan]

No news this late in the day (around 4PM CT) is probably good news. Day-to-day thing my guess.

 

[Ice009]

My thoughts exactly!! I said they were playing with fire when they sat him against the Clippers.

And if that is the case, the Spurs have outsmarted themselves yet again. He should have played those games if he was healthy enough to play. There is no reason he couldn't have played just 20-25 minutes against both the Denver and the Clippers on those two games he missed. If he legitimately needed them off, that is OK, but if he was healthy and they just sat him just because, well, they may have cost him yet another award/s.

 

[spurs2112]

The issue is that NBA tries to solve a problem that NBA created... everybody knows that 82 games in 6 months is too much but then you add more games, play in, nba cup finals.... The 65 games rule is fucking dumb and makes 0 sense, load management became a thing because NBA has never had the courage to tackle the root causes... too many games. Back to back games is insane concept, 4 / 5 games a week is insane especially considering the distance you need to cover.

NBA has depreciated his own product. Less games better quality not that hard.

You either play 82 games over a longer period of time or you reduce that to 65 (it seems to be THE magic number).

BTW why 65, why not 66 or 80 or 50 ? what NBA thought it would happen tbh ? that never a star player would be uneligible because of 1 or 2 games or 10 mn ? Also I am not familiar with working law in the US but how legally is it allowed, you can reduce salary/contract because of injuries you got doing your profession ? I would not be surprised to see a legal action against NBA if ever a player has a lower contract due to this.

Sorry, but I don't think 82 basketball games in 6 months and 4/5 games a week is a lot. Starters play somewhere between what 30-40 minutes a game. That's 120 to 200 minutes a week. If a top athlete in the best shape of their life can't pull that off there's something wrong. Especially when players in previous decades were doing it on the regular. That's why I don't really understand all this "rest" talk. I can see the flying all over being a issue and maybe doing away with back to backs but again back to backs have been around for decades. Now with that being said I'm all for player safety first and foremost. At the end of the day they are the ones putting asses in seats and eyes on tvs. So like I've mentioned before if a player is hurt and can't go you don't play them.

 

[Mugen]

No news this late in the day (around 4PM CT) is probably good news. Day-to-day thing my guess.

I'm guessing he misses the Blazers game. Comes off the bench for the Mavs game to get load managed.

Then see how he is the next day and decide how they want to handle the Denver finale.

 

[Mugen]

My thoughts exactly!! I said they were playing with fire when they sat him against the Clippers.

Or he plays that game, gets hurt and people are losing their shit about him playing a b2b this close to end of the season.

It's life, shit happens. You deal tbh.

 

[MannyIG]

The issue is that NBA tries to solve a problem that NBA created... everybody knows that 82 games in 6 months is too much but then you add more games, play in, nba cup finals.... The 65 games rule is fucking dumb and makes 0 sense, load management became a thing because NBA has never had the courage to tackle the root causes... too many games. Back to back games is insane concept, 4 / 5 games a week is insane especially considering the distance you need to cover.

NBA has depreciated his own product. Less games better quality not that hard.

You either play 82 games over a longer period of time or you reduce that to 65 (it seems to be THE magic number).

BTW why 65, why not 66 or 80 or 50 ? what NBA thought it would happen tbh ? that never a star player would be uneligible because of 1 or 2 games or 10 mn ? Also I am not familiar with working law in the US but how legally is it allowed, you can reduce salary/contract because of injuries you got doing your profession ? I would not be surprised to see a legal action against NBA if ever a player has a lower contract due to this.

But its not just the NBA's rule. The players agreed to this! The players could make the 82 games a sticking point but they also don't want to take less money. The 65 game mark is what they jointly came up with.

 

[Seventyniner]

65 games is arbitrary, but so is any other number.

The rule is working, for better or worse. I bet Victor would have sat out at least 4 games post ASB without the 65 game rule.

I'm totally in favor of having it be the current 65 games (at least 20 minutes in each with two 15 minute exceptions) OR a total of 2000 minutes played. That's 57 games at a hair over 35 MPG.

 

[MannyIG]

I mean it's fine the way the award was handled before, not load management. And I'm right -- they don't need these arbitrary rules like 65 games. It's not working. It's a stupid rule and making things worse.

If load management is a problem, figure out some other way.

But the secret is that players are missing time from injuries because the game is being played much faster than it was before. No one's willing to talk about this and the wear and tear it's putting on bodies.

What do you mean no one is willing to talk about this? The players know this quite well and it was discussed during the negotiations. This isn't something that is just being handed down.

I need you guys to realize how this rule came about, why it came about, and who put it in place because I feel like y'all are missing that aspect of it. The players are quite happy with the contracts and money they get from an 82 game season and aren't willing to walk that back anymore than the owners because they get the same amount of money whether they play in 55 games or 70 games. They made these awards part of the reasoning for contracts, and that was a good thing for them but also opened up making the rules around those awards stricter.