Player The Layne Staley Depression-Laden Foxhole of De'Aaron Martez Fox

No, the criticism wasn't nuanced, it was just about fans who haven't seen enough of Fox thinking that he's a different player than he actually is.
Described as an undersized, inefficent low effort chucker by the most clueless person on Spurstalk on the day he joined.

Instead we got a player who's everything opposite of those things he's being accused of.
So far he's playing on elite efficency.
Doesn't force things, in fact it looks like Mitch had to tell him to take more shots and be more selfish over the past few games.
His C&S 3pt looks great, meaning there won't be any issues when he's off the ball.

And most importantly, he's a way better defender than anyone advertised.
I said it when he joined, playing with competent rim protection instead of layup lane Sabonis will be a huge difference, but I didn't expect Fox to be this good defensively.
Don't get me wrong, he'll never be an all-NBA defender, he very well might be the best all-star point guard defender among regularly sized gurads.

Maxey, Mitchell, Brunson, Harden, Curry, Booker, Murray...Fox is a way better defender than all of them.
He's also better than Cade and Luka, despite the size difference.
SGA is the only great defender among elite lead guards.

And that's a huge thing for us, especially come the playoffs.
Fox guarded both Booker and Avdija for some stretches over the past two games. Not by mismatch hunting, but by design. And while he's obviously not an elite defensive stopper, he's maybe even the fastest player in the league and has elite hands. His steals aren't a product of him gambling the passing lanes all the time like Dejounte did, but he'll actually punish careless handles.
Which is enough for him to be a respectable defender and I doubt we'll ever see him being the designated target on defense like it's the case with all those lead guards I listed.
SGA is the only guard sized player who could really hurt Fox in their matchups, but he hurts everyone, can't do much about it.

As for the suboptimal things, he's obviously not an elite passer.
But he's smart enough to know his limits and it doesn't look like he'll throw many errant passes.
Those 6 assists he's averaging will be just enough.

Sidenote, but both C&S 3pts Harper took also looked really smooth and natural, I don't think Fox/Harper/Catle lineups will be an issue spacing wise.
Due to the already mentioned and somewhat unexpected defensive skills Fox has, that lineup won't have any size issues in most matchups.

As for his contract, I really hate how people are either 0 or 100 about it, when as per usual the truth is always inbetween.
There's almost always a compromise in trades.
The only reason we got Fox is that he was dirt cheap considering the instant impact value he adds and his preference to go to the Spurs were the decisive factor.
The compromise is that we had to give him a max extension, no questions asked. That was obviously pre-arranged before he even joined.

Is paying Fox 30% of the cap too much? Probably. (Don't mention 50, 60 or whatever million numbers when that's irrelevant, max contracts are given based on cap percentage.)
But it's not a massive overpay, he's surely a 25% player.
And most importantly we won't have any cap issues for two more years after this one and we won't be in the luxury tax for three more years.
And those tax issues will happen only if both Castle and Harper play their way into max extensions, which will obviously be a great thing for us.
And even if we get into those tax issues, it's going to be only for one year because Harper's first year of extension would be Fox's last year.
If the ownership can't afford one year of luxury tax on a top contender, what are we even talking about?

Fox will also always have value and be easy to trade unless catastrophic injuries happen, but that's a risk with every max contract.
If we decide to trade him in 2028 or 2029, it's going to be easy enough because he'll have 2 or 1 year left on his deal and be just 30/31.
Most teams are desperate to get a guard of his level and even if he declines a bit, he'll still be a great player. We won't get a haul back for him, but he'll never enter negative asset territory.

Another thing is that all the young contenders have overpaid players on their roster. That's how things function if you're competitive with a bunch of rookie contracts.
Is Hartenstein worth $28M a year? Not really, but only his final year causes cap issues and they can get out of it.

Bottom line is that Fox haters club is obsessed with a hypothetical situation that could happen in 2028 at the earliest while he's winning us games right now.
We were fucking garbage by Spurs standards for 5 years, we get arguably the best player we ever traded for, but not only that he wanted to come to the Spurs which was unheard of for decades, even during the best years, but it's still not enough for some of you doomers. Something always has to be wrong. You'd be happy only if we got a 25 year old KD 2.0 for 3 SRPs and Zach Collins.
At least try to look at things from a realistic angle from time to time.
(This isn't referring to just you, but a huge number of Spurs fans that can't understand all the variables required to pull of a Fox-like trade.)
I like your points, let's see how it goes.

Not sure who you're referring to who said Fox was an "undersized, inefficient low effort chucker..." tho, hope it's not me because I never said close to that.

It feels like one has to be all in or all out... I'm just in a "not convinced" place that can evolve, hence the "nuanced" I referred to.
 
Two things are certain:
1. Wemby obviously has to be the first option and highest usage player.
2. Wemby obviously needs to get th KD 2.0 idea out of his head because nothing good comes from it. Both him and his teammates benefit if he plays to his strengths like he did in the first few games of the season.
3- Wemby needs to work on a go-to move ASAP
4- Wemby needs to stop the talk and start the walk
5- Wemby needs to not forget he's 7'10

the list can go on about Wemby, any criticism of Fox doesn't exonerate anything about him contrary to what some baaaadly want to think ^^
 
It never gets old to witness grown ass men getting all emo after a game bc they think it validates their takes, tbh :ROFLMAO:
I'll wait to see, not necessarily the efficiency as much as the intentions, when Wemby is back to change my stance on him.
Yeah, stick to your points even when they have been proven wrong over and over again. That's what real men do.
 
???

My point is just that a game doesn't change anything, and the criticism is a lot more nuanced than what those who disagree want to portray.

I don't recall anyone saying Fox was done or not able to do his usual numbers, the question has always been about his complementarity with Wemby and overall fit considering the emergence of Castle and Harper.
Or, bear with me, you’re just a hater.
 
People gotta remember that when we had a top 5 all time guy in Duncan in his prime, we thrived with Tony being a score-first point guard. His scoring threat opened things up for Duncan.

Fox isn’t supposed to be shy or defer just because it’s Wembys team. If the defense isn’t scared of your attacking at all times, you are also making it easier for them to defend the other studs.

It can be hard to find the line of chucking and aggression but star players are the ones talented enough to do it but are also able to figure out how to toe that line.

Even Kobe who was 6/24 in game 7 vs Boston found Artest and fisher for dagger shots at the end
 
Not sure who you're referring to who said Fox was an "undersized, inefficient low effort chucker..." tho, hope it's not me because I never said close to that.
It wasn't you, but a well-known hater, I don't want to summon him here.

3- Wemby needs to work on a go-to move ASAP
4- Wemby needs to stop the talk and start the walk
5- Wemby needs to not forget he's 7'10

the list can go on about Wemby, any criticism of Fox doesn't exonerate anything about him contrary to what some baaaadly want to think ^^
He already has enough moves, it's just that he wants to be unpredictable and flashy.
Sounds harsh, but I feel like Wemby won't realize it until he fails in a playoff series with KD 2.0 playstyle. But it's going to be worth it long-term.
 
Fox woke up and had a great game. Need better defense, too much ball watching, and I don't like him dialing up 3s for himself. He can't hit those. But he finally looked like what he should be.
shoots 38% from 3 :st-lol:
 
I realize it is still small sample territory, but if Fox is going to maintain anywhere near this kind of efficiency then Fox and Vic probably need to be more 1a & 1b on offense rather than 1 & 2. That doesn't necessarily mean "my turn, your turn" type stuff, just night to night where either could lead the team in scoring and it not raising eyebrows.

Vic, Fox and Castle have all been awesome at getting to the line this year as well. They absolutely need to continue to exploit that. Don't avoid/fade from contact, get free throws. Put the opposing team in the penalty with 8 mins left in the quarter. Put the best defenders in foul trouble.
 
Fox and Wemby have played less than 10 games together tbh. I think their games mesh really well once they get to actually build some chemistry.

I also like how Fox has seemingly been okay with an off-ball role when paired with Castle or Harper.

Not sure how anybody can be anything but pleased with how he's played with the Spurs so far tbh.
 
Meanwhile, Zach Lavine is playing like trash and getting loyal Kings fans kicked out of the arena. Really sucks to be a Kings fan right now.
 
I just want to see the two together! Bad luck with injuries, but still frustrating. Hope that changes very soon.
 
stfu Karen, you're missing the point as usual

Keep learning how to read stats
It’s been a year and a bit, and you still haven’t shown any ability to read stats at all, but that won’t stop you from acting like you know something. Keep throwing out buzzwords like nuanced, or lacking awareness.

Case in point about refusing to change, using the word Karen. Multiple people flat out laughed at you about the usage and I startightnout told you that it really isn’t annoying me at all like you think and is making you look like a fool, and yet you continues to use it as if it would get to me some how. It’s bizarre. But keep your confidence up because your knowledge of the game, use of stats, logical thinking or anything else would need some time to catch up.
 
It’s been a year and a bit, and you still haven’t shown any ability to read stats at all, but that won’t stop you from acting like you know something. Keep throwing out buzzwords like nuanced, or lacking awareness.

Case in point about refusing to change, using the word Karen. Multiple people flat out laughed at you about the usage and I startightnout told you that it really isn’t annoying me at all like you think and is making you look like a fool, and yet you continues to use it as if it would get to me some how. It’s bizarre. But keep your confidence up because your knowledge of the game, use of stats, logical thinking or anything else would need some time to catch up.
Are you trying some sort of reverse technic or something?? ^^

YOU have always been the one struggling with the use of stats, isolating and picking the ones that fit your narrative, ignoring context etc

If you took the time to read me, you could've had noticed that I'm not pretending to hold the truth but giving an opinion/projection based on what we know today. That's how thinking and convo work dear...

I don't care being wrong in the end, my ego is fine, especially if it means the Spurs are good, so if Fox happens to be ultimately the perfect fit I'll be the happiest to admit being wrong in my predictions.

You can keep acting as if I'm a hater who tries to sell Fox as garbage as much as you want it'll never make if a fact. I like Fox, I just have long term doubts for multiple objective reasons I'm not going to repeat again.

Now let's wait and see and enjoy the journey, we'll see who was right or wrong soon enough.

Just as a reminder, we've had the same type of exchanges in the last 2 seasons about Vassell, Tre or Sochan, I was also seen as a hater with my criticism of those 3 but, was insulted with ad hominem bs as you guys love to do, but happened to be right in the end with th emajority joining my original pov.

I have no issue being in the minority, I'm used to it.
 
Are you trying some sort of reverse technic or something?? ^^

YOU have always been the one struggling with the use of stats, isolating and picking the ones that fit your narrative, ignoring context etc

If you took the time to read me, you could've had noticed that I'm not pretending to hold the truth but giving an opinion/projection based on what we know today. That's how thinking and convo work dear...

I don't care being wrong in the end, my ego is fine, especially if it means the Spurs are good, so if Fox happens to be ultimately the perfect fit I'll be the happiest to admit being wrong in my predictions.

You can keep acting as if I'm a hater who tries to sell Fox as garbage as much as you want it'll never make if a fact. I like Fox, I just have long term doubts for multiple objective reasons I'm not going to repeat again.

Now let's wait and see and enjoy the journey, we'll see who was right or wrong soon enough.

Just as a reminder, we've had the same type of exchanges in the last 2 seasons about Vassell, Tre or Sochan, I was also seen as a hater with my criticism of those 3 but, was insulted with ad hominem bs as you guys love to do, but happened to be right in the end with th emajority joining my original pov.

I have no issue being in the minority, I'm used to it.
PanameSpur using stats …. Still loading.
 
Meanwhile, Zach Lavine is playing like trash and getting loyal Kings fans kicked out of the arena. Really sucks to be a Kings fan right now.
Calling it right now: Spurs will get more for Fox when they trade him to Miami/Nets in 2027 or 2028 offseason than the Kings got for trading him to us at the prime age of 27 :st-lol:
 
His shot wasn't falling, but his defense was very good and 12 assists with just 3 turnovers is enough to still make it a positive impact game.
A couple of his 3s went all the way in and out, if those falls noone would say he had an inefficent game.
 
His shot wasn't falling, but his defense was very good and 12 assists with just 3 turnovers is enough to still make it a positive impact game.
A couple of his 3s went all the way in and out, if those falls noone would say he had an inefficent game.
Hating on Fox without any irony feels like a mental illness at this point. These people are actively rooting for the Spurs to fail. Honestly, it’s the usual suspects—20-year board vets who I don’t think are, or ever were, Spurs fans. Just trolls.
 
Last edited:
His shot wasn't falling, but his defense was very good and 12 assists with just 3 turnovers is enough to still make it a positive impact game.
A couple of his 3s went all the way in and out, if those falls noone would say he had an inefficent game.
He's being more aggressive which is what I wanted (I believe with him being aggressive, it helps lead the team - gives other guys confidence to perform and play well themselves), but this game, he still played a team game and passed it instead of forcing it all the way. I thought he played a really good game despite his shot not falling. If he hits just two of those shots that you said were in and out, that's all it takes for him to get going. He's just that type of player, he can turn his game around quickly with just a couple of makes.

Hopefully with Steph and Victor out, they're getting a good look at how all the guys are playing and how they can fit in and help make them better, as De'Aaron and Dylan were able to watch the team and see what the guys are capable of when they were out.
 
Last edited:
Nuggets were heavy in the gaps to stop Fox from driving into the paint, so he started to create open looks for shooters. That‘s exactly what should happen if teams focus on stopping him.

Perfectly played even though his shooting numbers look inefficient. I take those 12 assists any day.
 
Back
Top