Player The Layne Staley Depression-Laden Foxhole of De'Aaron Martez Fox

heres the fun part. The 4 year extension begins next season
It is not looking good, man. I thought he could be a 35-40 piece threat when the moment called for it like tonight, but he's genuinely struggling to put points on board. I mentioned above; he only scored 30 or more three times in a season in which the primary option missed a total of 18 games.
 
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The issue is that Mitch is treating Fox as if he was a consistent scorer that can do it at will.
It's been happening all season long, he doesn't get the ball for basically half the game and then when shit gets rough, we expect him to turn it on and be SGA for us. Won't happen.
Not an excuse for Fox, but Mitch needs to stop overrating his abilities.
We get the best version of Fox by having him engaged early on, like he was early in the seaason when Wemby sat with a calf injury.
 
Makes it doubly frustrating, there isn’t a physical reason he’s bad he’s just intrinsically ass like DDR
He loses confidence whenever he gets blocked.
His horizontal speed is still unmatched, but he's got no explosive verticality unless he goes for the dunk two steps ahead.
His layups around the basket have too low release point, making them easy to block, even if the defender is a step behind.
Castle and Harper are basically at the rim for most of their layups, Fox often looks like he's attempting them from the floor, with no elevation.
 
He loses confidence whenever he gets blocked.
His horizontal speed is still unmatched, but he's got no explosive verticality unless he goes for the dunk two steps ahead.
His layups around the basket have too low release point, making them easy to block, even if the defender is a step behind.
Castle and Harper are basically at the rim for most of their layups, Fox often looks like he's attempting them from the floor, with no elevation.
That’s a great assessment. I wonder what the reason for that is. Would that be the hamstring? Did he always do this? I still feel he can get a first step on guys which mitigates his bad technique but he hasn’t really taken advantage all year.

I don’t know how to get him more engaged at the beginning of games either. He seems perfectly content lollygagging and dicking around. I think I counted four turnovers first quarter
 
BW should never ever pay some midget the max tbh. Fox is just too small going against giants and only to get blocked.

Is there any stats website that count shots being blocked? I am sure Fox is in the top 5
 
Only 3 30+points games in 72 games played in a season in which Wemby missed 18 games can't be solely explained by "taking a backseat" to accommodate the young guards.

There is a palpable sense that he's lost the explosive ability to manufacture points for himself (career low in free throw rate is a telltale sign). That and never bothering to improve his 3PT shot which is one of the clunkiest-looking for a lead guard-- the combo of which is a recipe for steep and fast decline for his player archetype.
I don't believe he has. Again, he's just not being used right to get the best out of his abilities. I'm sorry, but as I've said before, if this is how they're going to use him, should have never signed to to that max contract for this kind of role.

The issue is that Mitch is treating Fox as if he was a consistent scorer that can do it at will.
It's been happening all season long, he doesn't get the ball for basically half the game and then when shit gets rough, we expect him to turn it on and be SGA for us. Won't happen.
Not an excuse for Fox, but Mitch needs to stop overrating his abilities.
We get the best version of Fox by having him engaged early on, like he was early in the seaason when Wemby sat with a calf injury.
Much better articulated than how I've been trying to say it. Yes, not an excuse, but Mitch is expecting him to do what he's not capable of. He played his best when he was 1A at the start of the season, or 1B when he took a more aggressive approach from the start of some of the games Victor played (OKC game being one example).

He loses confidence whenever he gets blocked.
His horizontal speed is still unmatched, but he's got no explosive verticality unless he goes for the dunk two steps ahead.
His layups around the basket have too low release point, making them easy to block, even if the defender is a step behind.
Castle and Harper are basically at the rim for most of their layups, Fox often looks like he's attempting them from the floor, with no elevation.
Fantastic observations. Did he play like this in Sacramento? Has he lost a little bit of jumping ability from his SAC days, or is this how he's always played close to the rim?

That’s a great assessment. I wonder what the reason for that is. Would that be the hamstring? Did he always do this? I still feel he can get a first step on guys which mitigates his bad technique but he hasn’t really taken advantage all year.

I don’t know how to get him more engaged at the beginning of games either. He seems perfectly content lollygagging and dicking around. I think I counted four turnovers first quarter
Great questions. He does seem to be lollygagging at the start of games, and maybe, that is a little bit on him. Maybe he is contributing a little to this. He should not be happy/content to play that way. If that is his mindset and he's happy to do it, I don't know if that's going to get it done. He needs a lot more killer instinct. Take a look at Scoot. That dude is going for it. That's how De'Aaron should have been playing. A lot more decisive with or without Vic.

BW should never ever pay some midget the max tbh. Fox is just too small going against giants and only to get blocked.

Is there any stats website that count shots being blocked? I am sure Fox is in the top 5
I think what LeBowen said is happening. He's getting no elevation around the rim. Not sure if he always played this way, or if the hamstring took away some of his vertical, I don't know.

This bum on max contract should be able to lead his team to a win against Portland
I really don't know why I'm sticking up for Fox so much. I wasn't really a fan of his in Sacremento, but I just feel this isn't all his fault. I've been trying to say what LeBowen mentioned a few posts above, they're just expecting too much from him and are putting in poor position to be able to deliver that. It's obvious he can't just turn it on as he hasn't been able to do that at the end if the season in multiple games in crunch time. Not sure why they thought it'd be any different. They're asking him to bail them out after everyone else craps the bed with the ball sharing/ISO/your turn approach. I'm not sure a lot of great players would be able to play like that. A lot of these other star players need to get into a rhythm earlier in the game to be able to close games. Not just do it in the last 5 minutes.
 
I don't believe he has. Again, he's just not being used right to get the best out of his abilities. I'm sorry, but as I've said before, if this is how they're going to use him, should have never signed to to that max contract for this kind of role.


Much better articulated than how I've been trying to say it. Yes, not an excuse, but Mitch is expecting him to do what he's not capable of. He played his best when he was 1A at the start of the season, or 1B when he took a more aggressive approach from the start of some of the games Victor played (OKC game being one example).


Fantastic observations. Did he play like this in Sacramento? Has he lost a little bit of jumping ability from his SAC days, or is this how he's always played close to the rim?


Great questions. He does seem to be lollygagging at the start of games, and maybe, that is a little bit on him. Maybe he is contributing a little to this. He should not be happy/content to play that way. If that is his mindset and he's happy to do it, I don't know if that's going to get it done. He needs a lot more killer instinct. Take a look at Scoot. That dude is going for it. That's how De'Aaron should have been playing. A lot more decisive with or without Vic.


I think what LeBowen said is happening. He's getting no elevation around the rim. Not sure if he always played this way, or if the hamstring took away some of his vertical, I don't know.


I really don't know why I'm sticking up for Fox so much. I wasn't really a fan of his in Sacremento, but I just feel this isn't all his fault. I've been trying to say what LeBowen mentioned a few posts above, they're just expecting too much from him and are putting in poor position to be able to deliver that. It's obvious he can't just turn it on as he hasn't been able to do that at the end if the season in multiple games in crunch time. Not sure why they thought it'd be any different. They're asking him to bail them out after everyone else craps the bed with the ball sharing/ISO/your turn approach. I'm not sure a lot of great players would be able to play like that. A lot of these other star players need to get into a rhythm earlier in the game to be able to close games. Not just do it in the last 5 minutes.
To counter the “Mitch needs to get him more engaged early on” point, he’s a PG and has a chance to engage in the offense HIMSELF at the beginning of a lot of possessions. Instead of deferring to castle immediately why doesn’t he call a screen? Initiate a dribble hand off? Pnr? He can do a lot with how he’s deployed already
 
To counter the “Mitch needs to get him more engaged early on” point, he’s a PG and has a chance to engage in the offense HIMSELF at the beginning of a lot of possessions. Instead of deferring to castle immediately why doesn’t he call a screen? Initiate a dribble hand off? Pnr? He can do a lot with how he’s deployed already
Not sure. He's done it most of the season. Maybe this is what the coaching staff wanted and he's going along with it. I don't know the reason/s, but if he's been doing it under instruction, maybe he's still following some sort of instruction from the coaching staff on how they want to play. Poor coaching, though, if it's coming from the coach. They need to change things up a bit. Not drastically as it's too late for that, but they need to change it a little bit and get the ball in his hands a bit more IMO.
 
I'll hate to be blunt but if he doesn't step it up then please trade this bumb this offseason.

And this is coming from someone who was ecstatic when we traded for him
 
Bit late in the game to say this, but all season the thread title has bothered me. Didn't really want the association with Layne Staley. I'm not really into grunge and I know the guy was considered a great vocalist in the genre/his time (I still have to give AIC a proper listen to a full album as I'm way more open minded music wise these days), but the thread title hasn't given me good vibes all season :(. Maybe because I haven't listened to more than a few songs, the unfamiliarly is causing that, but yeah, I don't feel it was a positive thread title.
 
Bit late in the game to say this, but all season the thread title has bothered me. Didn't really want the association with Layne Staley. I'm not really into grunge and I know the guy was considered a great vocalist in the genre/his time (I still have to give AIC a proper listen to a full album as I'm way more open minded music wise these days), but the thread title hasn't given me good vibes all season :(. Maybe because I haven't listened to more than a few songs, the unfamiliarly is causing that, but yeah, I don't feel it was a positive thread title.
Jar of Flies is excellent.
 
after my crazy Giannis trade proposition, here is another one Fox for Curry. The Warriors have to rebuild, Curry is at the end of this career and cannot win a title in SF, he has one year left at 62 millions. He is old but still puts good number and is one of the best 3-point shooters in the game, which we lack. He is not a great defender but neither is Fox.

It gives the Spurs one more year for Castle and Harper to develop while benefiting from a real vet experience who actually won titles and it doesn't jeopardize their future financially. The Warriors replace Curry with a starting PG who is still in his prime to continue with Butler and Green next season, making 11 million less than Curry so providing them with a little of room for another player.
 
after my crazy Giannis trade proposition, here is another one Fox for Curry. The Warriors have to rebuild, Curry is at the end of this career and cannot win a title in SF, he has one year left at 62 millions. He is old but still puts good number and is one of the best 3-point shooters in the game, which we lack. He is not a great defender but neither is Fox.

It gives the Spurs one more year for Castle and Harper to develop while benefiting from a real vet experience who actually won titles and it doesn't jeopardize their future financially. The Warriors replace Curry with a starting PG who is still in his prime to continue with Butler and Green next season, making 11 million less than Curry so providing them with a little of room for another player.
Would one million percent do this. Love curry
 
after my crazy Giannis trade proposition, here is another one Fox for Curry. The Warriors have to rebuild, Curry is at the end of this career and cannot win a title in SF, he has one year left at 62 millions. He is old but still puts good number and is one of the best 3-point shooters in the game, which we lack. He is not a great defender but neither is Fox.

It gives the Spurs one more year for Castle and Harper to develop while benefiting from a real vet experience who actually won titles and it doesn't jeopardize their future financially. The Warriors replace Curry with a starting PG who is still in his prime to continue with Butler and Green next season, making 11 million less than Curry so providing them with a little of room for another player.
I mean, automatically I'd say no due to his defense, age and availability, but then I think about it real hard due to his shooting. I'd be interested to get him in to see if he can teach Steph, Dylan and those guys anything different about shooting the ball. If he can help improve their shooting, show them his training methods etc. that alone would be worth two De'Aaron Foxes ;). I'm sort of more interested in Draymond Green, though.
 
Scoot Henderson also taking a shit on us sucks. Embarrassing first two games really. Spurs have not looked great in either game. I haven't felt like they've played with playoff intensity at all. They've played with regular season big game intensity.

I felt the game intensity is fine. Except Fox, I see D is good.

Coming to O we dont have Offensive philosophy. For all the brotherly talk that spurs brag about, players dont play for each other and move the ball. Basic.

For Steph intensity means doing Russian roulette more aggressively. Pass pass pass and we will be just fine. Our sharp shooter who hit 2 3’s didn’t even see a ball whole 2nd half although he is open. Fox dont pass, Steph dont pass. Team needs a selfless passer to take it to next level.
 
Cross posting this from the Castle thread. Game 3 is a pretty big moment for Fox. I'm sure Tiago will be game planning for this as well - but it's not like we didn't see this 3 times already in the regular season.

No excuses in Game 3.

Game 3 there needs to be a deliberate point for Fox to be the primary option. Not 1A/1B... but Clear #1 when he is on the court. On the bright side, it appears that's generally what the Spurs have done this year. Fox's USG (and efficiency) get a pretty significant boost when Wemby is out, whereas Castle splits with and without Wemby are a little more consistent. What throws this off a little is that StatMuse doesn't want to cooperate so I can't pull the splits of Fox without Wemby and with/without Castle, since Fox played some games without the both of them.

Fox without Wemby playing: 18 games, 24.6 pts, 6.2 assists, 4.4 reb, 17.7 FGA, 7.0 3PA, 5.7 FTA on 49.1/38.1/80.6 (61.0 TS%), 29.6 USG
Fox with Wemby playing: 54 games, 16.5 pts, 6.2 assists, 3.5 reb, 13.5 FGA, 5.0 3PA, 2.6 FTA on 48.4/30.9/72.7 (56.4 TS%), 23.2 USG

Castle without Wemby: 8 games, 18.4 pts, 7.1 assists, 6.8 reb, 12.6 FGA, 3.8 3PA, 6.4 FTA on 44.6/50/82.4 (59.5 TS%), 26.2 USG
Castle with Wemby: 60 games, 16.4 pts, 7.4 assists, 5.1 reb, 11.9 FGA, 3.6 3PA, 5.6 FTA on 47.5/30.8/72.1 (57.2 TS%), 24.7 USG
 
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