Player The blessed howl's moving Castle of Stephon Javonte

[scott]

I wonder were Steph gets drafted if he was in the 2025 draft?

Steph the 2024 Draft Prospect probably goes 8-10 (*will give my hypothetical mock below)

Steph the reigning ROTY who has shown what he has so far probably goes 4, IMO.

*Hypothetical 2024 + 2025 Class Mock, going only on how players we perceived entering their respective draft

1. Flagg
2. Harper
3. VJ
4. Risacher
5. Sarr
6. Kon
7. Ace
8. Reed
9. Castle
10. Tre

I could see a case where Ace falls down all the way below Castle, bumping Steph to 8. I can also see a case where Tre goes before Steph. I don't see him in any way slipping below Fears, Egor, CMB, etc.

I'm not bumping Steph above anyone who was drafted ahead of him in this exercise, since we know he wasn't. Most of us felt like there was a very strong chance we'd have a chance to pick him at 4, so it's not like he slipped to us either. I think to do this right you have to keep the actual relative order of the 2024 and 2025 classes in tact and merge them where you see fit.

 

[Shmurs]

The alternative to Castle not shooting open 3s is him passing up open 3s, and then he just becomes Jeremy Sochan out there. Hard pass. His form looks good, they'll start falling.

So when it’s swing swing and 12 seconds left with Sochan wide open in the corner - that’s a shot you want him to take.

Me, I want him to quickly hand it to someone else because there’s ample time for a better outcome. And in castle’s case he can even try to re-initiate and we’d have a good shot at winning the possession.

If byombo was open you wouldn’t want him taking the shot. I think I’d expand that out to all bad shooters and not just centers. You think that a person being a wing means they’re required to shoot when they’re open. I think a lot of coaches agree so I’m not saying it’s stupid. But I think we just learned a lot of coaches were wrong about the value of a 3 pointer and you’re seeing a shift back into reality.

 

[Maddog]

The turnovers don't bother me at the moment
he's just turned 21 and plying point despite having not having played it in college. Shooting has always been a concern. To date he's not shown any consistent ability to hit outside. Agreed, it's early in his second season and I like the confidence, but he's 1-15 from three the last 3 games. He's under Sochan level
Curiously he has hit 21 of last 24 FTs so fingers crossed.

 

[scott]

So when it’s swing swing and 12 seconds left with Sochan wide open in the corner - that’s a shot you want him to take.

Me, I want him to quickly hand it to someone else because there’s ample time for a better outcome. And in castle’s case he can even try to re-initiate and we’d have a good shot at winning the possession.

If byombo was open you wouldn’t want him taking the shot. I think I’d expand that out to all bad shooters and not just centers. You think that a person being a wing means they’re required to shoot when they’re open. I think a lot of coaches agree so I’m not saying it’s stupid. But I think we just learned a lot of coaches were wrong about the value of a 3 pointer and you’re seeing a shift back into reality.

If Steph makes a habit of taking ill advised early shot clock 3s, then I think that's worth calling him out on (much like we did with Wemby a year ago). His shot selection should (and will, IMO) improve. I don't think the handful of "bad" 3s we're talking about are as big a problem as we're making it out to be, it's just that there have been a couple that really stand out. He'll be okay.

But if he's still at .244 in January, we should certainly revisit this conversation.

I'm much more concerned about the lazy boneheaded passes, but he seems to have cut (or at least reduced) those out the last few games.

 

[SpursBills]

6'6"-6'8", "better playmaking than a typical wing, not enough PG skills or shooting to be a true PG" - let's see how these four are doing:

Looks like Castle comfortably outstrips Anthony Black as a prospect. His turnovers and general shooting inefficiency are probably causing his offensive DPM to take a dive, but at this point as players I'd still comfortably take him over Daniels. He's still got a ways to go before being able to catch Amen in terms of impact, but the interesting thing to note here is that both Black and Amen took a nice little leap around age 21, right around where Castle is now, so it will certainly be interesting to see what this chart looks like in a year.

 

[Guru of Nothing]

Is Castle taking a leap? Breakdown of Castle's progress (working admittedly with a small sample so far).

 

[CGD]

6'6"-6'8", "better playmaking than a typical wing, not enough PG skills or shooting to be a true PG" - let's see how these four are doing:

Looks like Castle comfortably outstrips Anthony Black as a prospect. His turnovers and general shooting inefficiency are probably causing his offensive DPM to take a dive, but at this point as players I'd still comfortably take him over Daniels. He's still got a ways to go before being able to catch Amen in terms of impact, but the interesting thing to note here is that both Black and Amen took a nice little leap around age 21, right around where Castle is now, so it will certainly be interesting to see what this chart looks like in a year.

Interesting. Did the Thompson brothers enter the league a little order? Hadn’t appreciated that if so.

 

[CGD]

Steph the 2024 Draft Prospect probably goes 8-10 (*will give my hypothetical mock below)

Steph the reigning ROTY who has shown what he has so far probably goes 4, IMO.

*Hypothetical 2024 + 2025 Class Mock, going only on how players we perceived entering their respective draft

1. Flagg
2. Harper
3. VJ
4. Risacher
5. Sarr
6. Kon
7. Ace
8. Reed
9. Castle
10. Tre

I could see a case where Ace falls down all the way below Castle, bumping Steph to 8. I can also see a case where Tre goes before Steph. I don't see him in any way slipping below Fears, Egor, CMB, etc.

I'm not bumping Steph above anyone who was drafted ahead of him in this exercise, since we know he wasn't. Most of us felt like there was a very strong chance we'd have a chance to pick him at 4, so it's not like he slipped to us either. I think to do this right you have to keep the actual relative order of the 2024 and 2025 classes in tact and merge them where you see fit.

Interesting. My only quibble is that Reed at 3 was so Houston-context specific in that draft. I’m convinced many other teams would’ve taken Steph 3, in which case I think Steph would jump slightly on your list. Fun to think about.

 

[SpursBills]

Interesting. Did the Thompson brothers enter the league a little order? Hadn’t appreciated that if so.

Yeah, I think the entire knock on them going into their draft year was that they were basically 19 year olds beating up on 17 and 18 year olds in OTE which made their evaluation tough

 

[frenchfred]

The turnovers don't bother me at the moment
he's just turned 21 and plying point despite having not having played it in college. Shooting has always been a concern. To date he's not shown any consistent ability to hit outside. Agreed, it's early in his second season and I like the confidence, but he's 1-15 from three the last 3 games. He's under Sochan level
Curiously he has hit 21 of last 24 FTs so fingers crossed.

his mid range shooting has been pretty good though. He has improved it and his passing at the beginning of his second season. He is Derozan but with defense at the moment, not too bad.

 

[OK Computer]

Meh, every time I watch Amen I don’t come away that impressed. Sure, he’ll have a big game every now and then, but a star really makes his presence felt or even an elite role player (like Derrick White) does as well. I don’t see him as a standout in the games I’ve seen him play.

 

[Ice009]

Meh, every time I watch Amen I don’t come away that impressed. Sure, he’ll have a big game every now and then, but a star really makes his presence felt or even an elite role player (like Derrick White) does as well. I don’t see him as a standout in the games I’ve seen him play.

Like, if you were to take him off the Rockets and put him on a lottery team, I don't think he can turn that team around. Not trying to knock him, but I agree with you, I don't see him as a star player in the games I've watched. He's got some great tools and all that, but he doesn't seem like a true star player that can turn a team around (I could be wrong).

 

[CGD]

Yeah, I think the entire knock on them going into their draft year was that they were basically 19 year olds beating up on 17 and 18 year olds in OTE which made their evaluation tough

I remember rumblings that the Spurs were high on one of the twins if they didn’t land Vic. Happy we got a potentially equal or better version the year after in Steph.

 

[spursparker9]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1987548736407412987

wtf Cam Thomas is only 1/4 against Castle? Then who the fuck let Thomas scored on him all the way to 40 pts

 

[Ice009]

The Cam Thomas and Luka ones are not what I expected. I thought they scored quite a bit on him, but looks like I was wrong if those stats are correct.

 

[OK Computer]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1987669860172898747

 

[DAF86]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1987669860172898747

What's this supossed to show?

 

[Exstatic]

What's this supossed to show?

Well rounded game.

 

[spursparker9]

Well rounded game.

Luka not inside? That guy is average almost 40 pts triple double

 

[ginobilized]

Luka not inside? That guy is average almost 40 pts triple double

I think Luka has missed too high of a percentage of games so far to be on any stats lists. That should change shortly.

 

[T Park]

The turnovers don't bother me at the moment
he's just turned 21 and plying point despite having not having played it in college. Shooting has always been a concern. To date he's not shown any consistent ability to hit outside. Agreed, it's early in his second season and I like the confidence, but he's 1-15 from three the last 3 games. He's under Sochan level
Curiously he has hit 21 of last 24 FTs so fingers crossed.

His shots all looked great vs NO. They’re just not falling.

 

[ambchang]

Got to know what those statistics are. Not sure if ranking high in FG% should count the same as PPG, RPG, or stuff like that.

 

[dn0774]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1987548736407412987

I’ve loved his defense this season, but anecdotally it felt like Booker hit way more than 1 shot with Castle on him.

 

[ambchang]

I’ve loved his defense this season, but anecdotally it felt like Booker hit way more than 1 shot with Castle on him.

Actually looked up the highlights:

So With Castle on the floor, Booker:
- Hit a low post turnaround over Harper after Castle went help out a Goodwin drive. (around 45s). I think this counts as a shot against Harper.
- Hit an elbow pull up over Castle after Castle was screened by Nigel Hayes-Davis. Should definitely count against Castle (around 50s mark)
- Passed to grayson Allen for a wide open 3 while Champaigne was guarding him. Castle was supposed to be guarding Allen but went help out to double Booker. (1:25 mark)
- Passed to Goodwin after shouldering Castle to the floor for a wide opened 3. Barnes had to help out on a Dunn cut, and Vassell had to leave Goodwin to block off the cut. In retrospect Vassell should have stayed no his man and Wemby should be helping out. (1:38)
- Pull up from 18 after a Mark Williams screen, right in Castles face. Should definitely count (1:48)
- Passed to Williams for a bunny after Castle switched off on him and Vassell had him instead. Castle was pretty lost there (2:05)
- Drove in for a layup vs. Barnes. Castle was guarding Grayson Allen (2:15)
- Fast break layup when Castle was trying to crash in for a defensive board. I think this should count but I doubt it (2:21)
- Turn around from 10 feet right in Castle's face. Definitely should count (2:38)
- Hit a pull up around the elbow after Barnes was switched onto him from a Dunn screen. Booker was originally guarded by KJ. Castle was on Williams (2:45)
- Passed out to Gillespie allen for a 3 while Castle was guarding him (2:56)
- Passed to O'Neale for a three in a semi fast break while Castle was guarding him (3:10). At this point the Spurs were helping on doubling anything Booker it seemed.
- Pulled up from the elbow off a screen after Castle was guarding him. Vassell came to help and challenged. Should have counted but again i doubt it. (3:17)

So there were at least 3 shots Booker nailed on Castle, potentially 5. Booker scored or assisted on 23 points, so Castle didn't really do that well and the matchup thing doesn't seem to be overly accurate. It also showed Booker had 4 assists when I counted 5.

 

[spurraider21]

he is playing at a high level overall, and its cool to see that he has taken a leap despite not getting even 1% better at shooting

just means there is still a lot of room for his game to take off if he can improve on one of the things that tends to be fairly improvable... shooting

but right now he is shooting 24.4% from 3 on 4.6 attempts per game, while shooting 69.7% from the line on 7.3 attempts