Analysis Spurs rotations and depth chart

[Vienna]

Sochan is shorter than Barnes. rather undersized for a PF.

 

[heyheymymy]

what lineup do you roll out against a Mavs squad expected to start DLo, Klay, Flagg, Davis, Lively? you cant have Barnes on one of those bigs, and are already giving up size with Vassell on Flagg.

imo you kind of have to start one of Kornet/Olynyk. that way one of those guys can check the second Dallas big while Barnes is more suited to guard Flagg. then you have Vassell on Klay and Castle on DLo.

This is why I initially advocated for Wemby/KO to start as bigs since KO gives you the full 6'11ish at PF instead of Barnes or Sochan giving only 6'8. At least selectively against big lineups like DAL. Not sure if it'll work but I like how KO can shoot the 3 some too, should pair with Wemby nicely conceivably as long as his defense is good enough

 

[Itzsoweezee]

The idea of Sochan starting is already making my blood boil. That guy is an undersized backup center. A bench role is the right place for him.

No need to make this complicated.

For game 1:
Castle
Vassell
Champagnie
Barnes
Wemby

For the rest of the season:
Fox
Castle
Vassell
Barnes
Wemby

 

[Corso]

Mavs matchups won't be that bad for us, it's just that Castle+Sochan doesn't work if they haven't made significant shooting improvements.

I guess it's going to be:
Wemby on AD
Jeremy on Lively
Barnes on Flagg
Devin on Klay
Castle on D'Lo

If Jeremy is struggling we bring Kornet or Olynyk on.
Olynyk is a dirty fucker, maybe he injures AD.

Olynyk doesn't even need to be dirty. AD blinks wrong and his eyeball falls out.

 

[Arguendo]

The idea of Sochan starting is already making my blood boil. That guy is an undersized backup center. A bench role is the right place for him.

No need to make this complicated.

For the rest of the season:
Fox
Castle
Vassell
Barnes
Wemby

NBA average Reb%= 10.0%.
Fox, Castle, Barnes all @ 7.4%, Vassell at 6.9%. You want to surround Vic with 4 WAY below avg rebounders? You realize Vic is an avg O-rebounder? Is your plan to win by never getting any 2nd chance points and by giving up tons of 2nd chance points? Bold strategy Cotton.

Oly = 12.4%, Top40 overall rate, Top25 O%. Sochan = 13.8%, Top25 rate in league, top 15% in O%.
Rebounds are important, without Oly or Sochan starting we are the worst O rebounding team in the league, and a bad Rebounding team overall.

Sochan is as much a starter as Barnes. Neither is an NBA starter. We need 3% and rebounding, both offer only one.
The idea Barnes is some locked-in starter, or even NBA starting material is as ridiculous as saying Sochan is. Sochan has a much better chance to improve compared to Barnes. Barnes shot EASILY his best 3% ever last yr, what's more likely another huge outlier yr or regression to the mean??
He will not be quicker/more athletic/a better rebounder one yr older. He pretty much offers efficient 3% only, but shooting 43% again is highly unlikely. I think its more likely Sochan shoots 34%. Sochan at 34% is much more valuable than Barnes at 38.5% (career average). Barnes shot 5% above his career avg last yr, I'd rather bet on Sochan raising his avg from 31% to 34% than Barnes repeating. Barnes has shot above 40% twice in 13 yrs, once is the past decade. Last yr. He's historically a solid 3% guy, not a great one. That's basically the only positive he brings.

I don't want Sochan starting, but someone must, and to me, Barnes is prolly the worst option. He is a 3% bench specialist likely to regress, Sochan is a bench D-specialist likely to improve based on age alone (and he's playing for a contract, contract yrs are a thing). Oly is a 34 y/o never a real starter, but he's the best combo of 3 and Rebs.

No need to make this complicated, rebounding is very fucking important. Barnes reb's like a PG, Oly offers both. None of the 3 are NBA starters, all are sub-optimal, but one will start, that complicates the situation.

 

[Itzsoweezee]

Sochan probably has the lowest BBIQ on the entire team. I don’t care about his rebounding percentage. He makes bad plays, misses good plays. I’ll take Barnes’ smarts and shooting over Sochan any day.

Oly is already injured. A frequent status for him.

 

[Shmurs]

Do you want 3% more rebounds or a functional half court offense? Unanswerable question of our time.

Also Sochan just eats Wemby’s rebounds. He’s not filling a void.

 

[Exstatic]

Sochan probably has the lowest BBIQ on the entire team. I don’t care about his rebounding percentage. He makes bad plays, misses good plays. I’ll take Barnes’ smarts and shooting over Sochan any day.

Oly is already injured. A frequent status for him.

He’s not injured, just still recovering from his spring surgery. In his 12 year long career, he’s only failed to play at,least 60 games twice, once last year when he needed surgery.

 

[Pioant]

The thought of Vassell as our starting SF is nauseating tbh. He is going to get cooked by any real SF with a pulse on offense. Champ would be better suited to starting with DV off the bench as the microwave scorer role. No that Champ is a legit SF either but he's clearly better as a defender. Devin peaked as a rookie and has gotten considerably worse on D since then. Can't wait until we trade him for someone useful

Champ is almost 6'8 with a 6'10" wingspan. That's legit enough

 

[OK Computer]

Going to do this in a different way.

PG Rotation:
Fox/ Harper/ Castle/ McLaughlin/ DJG

SG Rotation:
Vassell/ Castle/ Harper/ Waters

SF Rotation:
Champagnie/ Keldon/ Bryant/ Ingram

PF Rotation:
Barnes/ Sochan/ Wembanyama/ Bryant/ Minix

C Rotation:
Wembanyama/ Kornet/ Olynyk/ Biyombo

It’s not my favorite, but it’s the likeliest outcome IMO.

 

[Paramore]

I'll respond with deeper thoughts later... but I think Kelly O might surprise us with a larger role than we might be giving credit for right now.

I second the motion good Sir.....

Kelly can even get into the starting five.....making the bench deeper

 

[STAT88]

Is it a stretch to say the Spurs best 4 players this year will be

Wemby
Fox
Kornet
Harper

Love Castle but still don’t think he’s past the inflection point of being a winning/impact player despite the solid stats, potential, poise etc. Harper I think can be that sometime during his rookie year he’s that level of a prospect.

 

[Paramore]

Fox, Castle, Barnes, Olynyk, Wemby
Harper, Vassell, Johnson, Sochan, Kornet
McLaughlin, Waters III, Champ, Bryant, Byombo

Not bad, also my idea.....but perhaps the Spurs mgmt has other ideas

 

[Paramore]

Why not start Fox and Harper then someday?

 

[ginobilized]

I could envision a scenario where Fox/Castle/Champagnie/Barnes/Wemby are the SL after Fox comes back. KO might displace Barnes, but, Ol' Man Harrison tends to wake up once the season begins.
I could also see one Dylan Harper single-handedly making Devin Vassell the new 6th man of the year by setting him up for open jumpers all day long.
That's at least a win-win. Harper/Vassell/KJ/KO/Kornet is a solid 2nd team. Waters/Sochan/Biyombo/Bryant are the 3rd stringers

 

[DAF86]

I could envision a scenario where Fox/Castle/Champagnie/Barnes/Wemby are the SL after Fox comes back. KO might displace Barnes, but, Ol' Man Harrison tends to wake up once the season begins.
I could also see one Dylan Harper single-handedly making Devin Vassell the new 6th man of the year by setting him up for open jumpers all day long.
That's at least a win-win. Harper/Vassell/KJ/KO/Kornet is a solid 2nd team. Waters/Sochan/Biyombo/Bryant are the 3rd stringers

I doubt Sochan starts the season as a 3rd stringer.

 

[spurraider21]

when the dust settled sochan wound up as the backup 4 last year, where he didnt have too much competition. there were some minutes where champagnie/keldon occupied the 4 nominally, but nobody else really fought for sochan's role

this year, if the two-big lineups stick, thats a legitimate threat to sochan's role. he averaged 25mpg last year, i could see that dropping to 20 or below if his offense isn't markedly improved

 

[Shmurs]

He’s gonna back up Barnes and that’s that. If Barnes goes down then you bump Olynyk to starter from 3rd string.

 

[LeBowen]

It's not about how many players we play, but how many get enough minutes.
Someone will always be left out.

Pacers game rotation looked like what we'd see in a serious regular season game.
Castle, Harper, Devin, Champ, Keldon, Barnes, Wemby, Kornet was the 8 man rotation.
Fox is guaranteed to get 30mpg+, Jeremy will get minutes and there's also Olynyk.

Can't have everyone at 15mpg+, my opening post in that other topic goes in depth about it.

 

[Seventyniner]

Most of the first 3 quarters of Monday's game felt like regular season intensity from both teams.

 

[Shmurs]

It's not about how many players we play, but how many get enough minutes.
Someone will always be left out.

Pacers game rotation looked like what we'd see in a serious regular season game.
Castle, Harper, Devin, Champ, Keldon, Barnes, Wemby, Kornet was the 8 man rotation.
Fox is guaranteed to get 30mpg+, Jeremy will get minutes and there's also Olynyk.

Can't have everyone at 15mpg+, my opening post in that other topic goes in depth about it.

Yeah maybe the 4 is just a platoon at this point. You look at those 3 dudes, take them out of any initiation or primary/secondary/tertiary actions, have them try to not get in the way and hit open shots.

OKC didn’t need everyone to be a genius in the half court. Some dudes can sort of chill. They just need to be guarded.

 

[Paramore]

https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/s...ign=83753277&page_source=pushly_notifications

 

[scott]

I sure hope we get to see some Fox-Harper-Castle-Korndog-Wemby minutes. I think that will be a fun lineup, especially if Korndog is given a green light to fire up threes from time to time (and he can make them) and the guards can be average shooters.

 

[sfernald]

Reading this thread you guys have made me realize how deep this team is this year. The great news is I expect the “French vanilla” cream will rise to the top.

Harp/Castle/Champ/French/Vanilla would be the right lineup to start against this particular behemoth foe

 

[Robz4000]

At this point I think the only non-negotiable starter should be Wemby imo. Next would be Champ if his improved shooting is legit.

Fox
Castle
Champ
Barnes
Wemby

Harper
Vassell
Keldon
Sochan
Kornet

Waters
McLaughlin
Olynyk

If Barnes is washed and not in cruise control I'd hope Mitch would switch in Bryant in the SL but realistically it'd be Sochan. Hopefully by February Bryant and DJG replace Sochan and Vassell in the rotation if they don't show any growth tbh.

I know it won't happen but I really like the idea of Fox off the bench to destroy opposing benches.