Player Sochan's Extension Watch

[KobesAchilles]

I'm pretty sure the Spurs are not starting Sochan in favour of Barnes. I personally think that's a mistake. I understand the lack of shooting in the starting unit would be a concern with Sochan and Castle starting. But then I'm really concerned at the bench unit of Harper, Julian, Keldon, Sochan, and Kornet. That's a bad way to create room for Harper. I think Barnes really helps here.

Also not starting in the NBA is a sure way not to get paid. His agent might want to ask out to try net him a place as a starter.

Let him ask out tbh. Thats would actually be doing the Spurs a favor. Bc his immaturity and lack of seriousness is a detriment to the team.

 

[Thoodee]

Barnes is a temporary fix. I think you have to start sochan at this point and its do or die for him. Worst case scenario is he is the same player, no progress, and now spurs would have no choice not to overpay him. That's worth the sacrifice in my book.

 

[LeBowen]

Barnes is a temporary fix. I think you have to start sochan at this point and its do or die for him. Worst case scenario is he is the same player, no progress, and now spurs would have no choice not to overpay him. That's worth the sacrifice in my book.

We have no need to cater to a fundamentally flawed player like Sochan.
It's up to him to prove he's good enough to play more than 10 to 15 mpg.
He had three years to develop his shot in a pressure-free environment and made no progress.

We discussed it before, it's not about his fit with Wemby, but guards that all need better spacing to attack the paint.
I'm not making Castle's and Harper's development more difficult just because Jeremy might learn to shoot in his fourth year, which I doubt happens.

We have a lot of assets and with the new CBA cap space is precious. We can easily afford to let Jeremy walk if he doesn't improve. It's not like a wing with average athleticism and no jumpshot will have many suitors.

 

[Thoodee]

We have no need to cater to a fundamentally flawed player like Sochan.
It's up to him to prove he's good enough to play more than 10 to 15 mpg.
He had three years to develop his shot in a pressure-free environment and made no progress.

We discussed it before, it's not about his fit with Wemby, but guards that all need better spacing to attack the paint.
I'm not making Castle's and Harper's development more difficult just because Jeremy might learn to shoot in his fourth year, which I doubt happens.

We have a lot of assets and with the new CBA cap space is precious. We can easily afford to let Jeremy walk if he doesn't improve. It's not like a wing with average athleticism and no jumpshot will have many suitors.

I don't disagree with much of this however I don't see how playing or not playing Sochan stifles castle's and harper's development. If anything it would stifle Barne's and Carter Bryant's role. And if that's true, I don't think leaning on Barnes heavily makes the spurs better in the long run. If Sochan continues to play mediocre, provide him a lowball offer and let him walk, let bryant fill the spot, and get a sf w next year's first (rinse and repeat).

 

[dn0774]

I'm pretty sure the Spurs are not starting Sochan in favour of Barnes. I personally think that's a mistake. I understand the lack of shooting in the starting unit would be a concern with Sochan and Castle starting. But then I'm really concerned at the bench unit of Harper, Julian, Keldon, Sochan, and Kornet. That's a bad way to create room for Harper. I think Barnes really helps here.

Also not starting in the NBA is a sure way not to get paid. His agent might want to ask out to try net him a place as a starter.

I would argue not taking and making wide open shots at a reasonable clip or being a competent offensive basketball player is a sure way to not get paid as well. I like reading the alternate points of view, but no matter what angle I look at the Sochan dilemma from I ultimately see an extremely flawed, hard to integrate player who hasn't demonstrably improved at his weaknesses in 3 years.

It is not incumbent on the Spurs to ensure Jeremy gets paid a hefty sum, he has to earn that himself.

 

[Sugus]

We have no need to cater to a fundamentally flawed player like Sochan.
It's up to him to prove he's good enough to play more than 10 to 15 mpg.
He had three years to develop his shot in a pressure-free environment and made no progress.

We discussed it before, it's not about his fit with Wemby, but guards that all need better spacing to attack the paint.
I'm not making Castle's and Harper's development more difficult just because Jeremy might learn to shoot in his fourth year, which I doubt happens.

We have a lot of assets and with the new CBA cap space is precious. We can easily afford to let Jeremy walk if he doesn't improve. It's not like a wing with average athleticism and no jumpshot will have many suitors.

Yeah, the new CBA really changed the contract dynamics for most if not every non-All Star player, and middling guys like Sochan are bound to get shafted. The more restrictive the system, the more a players' flaws are examined and weighted when contract time is near.

I like Sochan etc etc, but the Spurs' situation has changed massively from the days since his draft, and the team has rapidly created what appears to be a contention window (may not fully open until next year but it's evidently where we're headed, no more tanks for this core with 3rd year, post-DVT Wemby). That sucks for a player like Sochan who appeared to be "two years away from" at times last season.

He is obviously not a playoff-caliber starting PF without a semblance of an outside shot, it's just too easy to exploit over a 7-game series. I'm low-key hoping the Spurs get off to a great start - which will add incentives to try and make a consolidating mid-season trade for the Friendship Crew in order to push for POs.

 

[dn0774]

I don't disagree with much of this however I don't see how playing or not playing Sochan stifles castle's and harper's development. If anything it would stifle Barne's and Carter Bryant's role. And if that's true, I don't think leaning on Barnes heavily makes the spurs better in the long run. If Sochan continues to play mediocre, provide him a lowball offer and let him walk, let bryant fill the spot, and get a sf w next year's first (rinse and repeat).

The "stifling" possibilities comes from playing Castle/Harper significant minutes with a guy who has no real offensive game and likes to occupy spots on the floor that Castle/Harper want to get to.

 

[LeBowen]

I don't disagree with much of this however I don't see how playing or not playing Sochan stifles castle's and harper's development. If anything it would stifle Barne's and Carter Bryant's role. And if that's true, I don't think leaning on Barnes heavily makes the spurs better in the long run. If Sochan continues to play mediocre, provide him a lowball offer and let him walk, let bryant fill the spot, and get a sf w next year's first (rinse and repeat).

It stifles their development because as we've talked about before, Wemby/Sochan is fine, but Wemby/Sochan/Castle wasn't. It will be the same with Harper if he's not a very good shooter right away.
If Jeremy doesn't improve his shot, his only way to regular minutes is for everyone else to suck on defense. I don't think that will be the case with Sweeney and Williamson on the coaching staff.

Also, why play Sochan/Wemby when we can play Wemby/Kornet? Especially since a lot of Western teams have big PFs.

 

[Sugus]

Also, why play Sochan/Wemby when we can play Wemby/Kornet? Especially since a lot of Western teams have big PFs.

This is actually a very significant question if the Wemby/Kornett pairing has chemistry as good as they showed during the last game..........

The Wemby/Kornett unit is fundamentally switchable since they both can play the 5, which Sochan really can't, Wemby will always be the de-facto 5 on any lineups with Sochan. So Jeremy will really have to show some value, either truly great perimeter defense, or much improved shooting/passing/whatever...... Because the potential of Kornett is too great to ignore otherwise, especially come playoffs.

It's funny because Kornett has kind of reduced his 3pt shooting volume, which would be a point against him as opposed to other players, but Sochan is one of the only players who cannot capitalize on that either

 

[Shmurs]

Kornett’s got a 15 minute a night body type.

 

[rjv]

Kornett’s got a 15 minute a night body type.

obscure post of the day. is this roundabout way of saying he has a "dad bod"?

 

[Thoodee]

It stifles their development because as we've talked about before, Wemby/Sochan is fine, but Wemby/Sochan/Castle wasn't. It will be the same with Harper if he's not a very good shooter right away.
If Jeremy doesn't improve his shot, his only way to regular minutes is for everyone else to suck on defense. I don't think that will be the case with Sweeney and Williamson on the coaching staff.

Also, why play Sochan/Wemby when we can play Wemby/Kornet? Especially since a lot of Western teams have big PFs.

If the conclusion is Sochan is who he is and likely has not improved his shot, (which I understand is likely and a very real possibility), even getting a good deal 10 mil a year for him may ultimate do more harm than good for the spurs. I don't think you pay a player 10-15 mil to have him play 10-15 minutes a night. That's why I wouldnt mind seeing spurs get one last look at the beginning of the season before pulling the trigger, and if there is no improvement, then lean on barnes and cut your losses with sochan.

If we don't see sochan starting, guarantee he won't be a spur for long, again which may not be a bad thing.

 

[Shmurs]

If the conclusion is Sochan is who he is and likely has not improved his shot, (which I understand is likely and a very real possibility), even getting a good deal 10 mil a year for him may ultimate do more harm than good for the spurs. I don't think you pay a player 10-15 mil to have him play 10-15 minutes a night. That's why I wouldnt mind seeing spurs get one last look at the beginning of the season before pulling the trigger, and if there is no improvement, then lean on barnes and cut your losses with sochan.

If we don't see sochan starting, guarantee he won't be a spurs for long, again which may not be a bad thing.

That’s right. There are countless vets making below the MLE that can give you 10-15 minutes of motor on D and nothing on offense. Find those guys. They exist.

 

[Exstatic]

We have no need to cater to a fundamentally flawed player like Sochan.
It's up to him to prove he's good enough to play more than 10 to 15 mpg.
He had three years to develop his shot in a pressure-free environment and made no progress.

We discussed it before, it's not about his fit with Wemby, but guards that all need better spacing to attack the paint.
I'm not making Castle's and Harper's development more difficult just because Jeremy might learn to shoot in his fourth year, which I doubt happens.

We have a lot of assets and with the new CBA cap space is precious. We can easily afford to let Jeremy walk if he doesn't improve. It's not like a wing with average athleticism and no jumpshot will have many suitors.

Barnes is just as flawed. What good is spacing, if you give it back on the other end? If they do in fact play Kornet a lot more than we thought, Barnes is actually unplayable at the 3. He can barely stay with quicker 4s.

 

[Shmurs]

Barnes is a 4/10 on D and 8/10 fit into the offense.

Jeremy is a 7/10 on d and a 2/10 fit into the offense.

…you can dispute these figures but this is the argument being made. The totality of Sochan is worse than the totality of Barnes.

 

[scott]

Low key kind of excited to see "New Sochan" here in the preseason, though I mostly just expect to be the same as the old Sochan

 

[couchman]

The NYT just put out an article about how Wemby is being reimagined as a Forward this season (which was the original dream alongside Zollins).
This explains why we signed three centers in the offseason, which at first felt like too many bodies at that position, but makes a lot more sense if Wemby is a 4.
This could have big implications for Sochan, who can't start next to Wemby and Kornet.
He also gets pushed further down the Forward depth chart if Wemby is in that mix.

 

[Exstatic]

The NYT just put out an article about how Wemby is being reimagined as a Forward this season (which was the original dream alongside Zollins).
This explains why we signed three centers in the offseason, which at first felt like too many bodies at that position, but makes a lot more sense if Wemby is a 4.
This could have big implications for Sochan, who can't start next to Wemby and Kornet.
He also gets pushed further down the Forward depth chart if Wemby is in that mix.

Well, Barnes certainly can’t play the 3 anymore. He can barely stay in front of 4s.

 

[TBdog]

I would argue not taking and making wide open shots at a reasonable clip or being a competent offensive basketball player is a sure way to not get paid as well. I like reading the alternate points of view, but no matter what angle I look at the Sochan dilemma from I ultimately see an extremely flawed, hard to integrate player who hasn't demonstrably improved at his weaknesses in 3 years.

It is not incumbent on the Spurs to ensure Jeremy gets paid a hefty sum, he has to earn that himself.

There are plenty of players that can't shoot that become and still are successful.

 

[TBdog]

Where would Sochan realistically expect to start, though? Maybe you can make a case for a couple of teams, but even then I don't think it's a slam dunk. He would be better served developing the skills that allow him to be playable in a high stakes game, which right now is not the case. That should set his grandchildren for life, even if he doesn't start.

Well it's more if things line up and another team opens up. But currently lots of bad teams. But for good teams, like the Grizzlies with JJ, or NY with Towns, Blazers instead of Grant.

 

[ambchang]

Mine is strictly his shot. He’s changed his shot every single year and every single year his shot has supposedly improved but in reality it never has.

And his lack of a shot has affected his mindset bc he’s aware of his shitty shooting ability and refuses to shoot open 3s. Sochan shot 1.7 threes a game last year and he was open waaaay more than that. In fact opposing teams purposely leave him open knowing he’s not going to either A) shoot the open shot or B) make the open shot.

And you can’t post instagram videos of you working on your shot during the summer when you don’t even make them in game. That’s what Ben Simmons did all the time. Sochan put out videos of him working hard last summer just for us not to see any improvement on it. He’s too boy who cried wolf for me. Stop posting shitty workouts and let the Spurs post your made 3s from actual games

Sochan can’t shoot but I can’t say it’s a lack of trying, at least I see no evidence of it. He tried changing his shot and it led to nowhere. I’d argue he made it worse. Some guys can’t shoot and it’s a confidence thing.

The issue, if it really isn’t sochan being a lasy bum, is how will the FO handle this? Trade him, find a role for him? With wemby drawing that much attention on offence there shouldn’t be issues designing plays for cutters. People act like any functional nba team needs five shooters on the floor but really you only need two or three with the other two or three players cutting and weaving effectively, and everyone passing.

The spurs have wemby and Barnes who can shoot, Vassell who shoots way too much, Fox can sort of shoot a bit. Castle, sochan, keldon and maybe Harper can’t. Luke is a likely reasonable enough shooter. Olynk can shoot.

So between castle sochan and keldon, castle is the only one who has any meaningful impact on offence due to his ballhandling and moves. Sochan and keldon are pure role players which is why I can’t figure out the reason they got so much hate.

It’s like Kobe fans blaming samaki walker and Kwame brown for those missed playoffs when they don’t even have much significant impact on the team.

 

[LeBowen]

Sochan can’t shoot but I can’t say it’s a lack of trying, at least I see no evidence of it. He tried changing his shot and it led to nowhere. I’d argue he made it worse. Some guys can’t shoot and it’s a confidence thing.

Fair point. But Spurs aren't a charity organization. We shouldn't hand out participation trophies for trying.
What changed our franchise's fortune in 2011? Trading a very good player and Pop's favorite George Hill for a 3-D wing we desperately needed.
The front office can't and I'm sure they won't make decisions based on emotional attachment.
If Sochan isn't good enough, best of luck to him wherever he goes.

The issue, if it really isn’t sochan being a lasy bum, is how will the FO handle this? Trade him, find a role for him? With wemby drawing that much attention on offence there shouldn’t be issues designing plays for cutters. People act like any functional nba team needs five shooters on the floor but really you only need two or three with the other two or three players cutting and weaving effectively, and everyone passing.

2025 playoffs, how many non-shooters have we seen get minutes on legit playoff teams?
Giannis, Amen and McConnell. Arguably two best athletes in the league and an exception that proves the rule.
Even Draymond took 29 3pts in 5 games against the Timberwolves.
Unless Jeremy's Rodman cosplay becomes something more than a cosplay and he develops into 1st team all-defense defender, he's not getting minutes when we get to the playoffs.

Obviously anything goes in the regular season, but I hope we're trying to build a contending roster and not a treadmill regular season team.

The spurs have wemby and Barnes who can shoot, Vassell who shoots way too much, Fox can sort of shoot a bit. Castle, sochan, keldon and maybe Harper can’t. Luke is a likely reasonable enough shooter. Olynk can shoot.

This is your issue, imo.
You can't put Jeremy into the same category with those other guys.
Everyone else will take open shots without any hesitation. Open shots as in the defense helps off them, but are still trying to get back and contest.
Jeremy passes up "alone in the gym" shots when noone is even bothering to contest him.

There's a bigger gap between a non-shooter (Jeremy) and a bad shooter (Castle), than there is between a bad shooter and a great shooter (Barnes).
If Jeremy hasn't made any improvement whatsoever in three seasons of pressure free environment, I don't see how anything changes this season.
I'd like to be wrong on this matter because we need a defensive wing like him, but one that can hit open shots consistently.

So between castle sochan and keldon, castle is the only one who has any meaningful impact on offence due to his ballhandling and moves. Sochan and keldon are pure role players which is why I can’t figure out the reason they got so much hate.

Because they're not capable of improving on the most basic things and it's been too many years of no improvement.
First basket we gave up last night was Keldon ball-watching the play he's not even close to and allowing Wiggins to cut at the baseline for a wide open layup.

He's unaware to the point where it's honestly triggering and unwatchable. Noone is asking him to be come an elite defender, but being so unware after all these years is inexcusable.
This exact same thing applies to Devin. He's still leaving his man wide open in the corner to help Wemby contest in the paint. Like what? Why would he think that's a good idea? It's not even his man that's attacking the basket.
If you're a bad defender, you focus on your man not getting easy points, you don't try to help whenever someone attacks the rim.

As for Jeremy, this goes for any player, I personally think it's an embarrassing when a player can't develop a functional jumpshot after years of trying.
Most of us from this forum would have a better looking jumpshot than Jeremy after a year of practice, let alone having NBA coaching to help us.
It's like his brain shuts down every time he starts his shooting motion.

Another thing I hate about him is that he's a low IQ player on offense.
High IQ playmakers process things on the fly and don't need to pre-plan their every drive.
Jeremy is one of those players that need to think about what's the sequence of events when they start their drive.
But he doesn't. How many of those drives into nothing have we seen over the past years? Teams want him to be the player that has the ball and attacks the paint.
Then he gets into awnkward positions, has no post moves to finish over anyone with size and has to kick the ball out in panic, but passing lanes are already clogged and it's usually a disaster.

Spurs brand of basketball was high IQ team play for more than two decades.
Friendship crew is everything but high IQ and at this point I'm not sure it's worth wasting resources of salvaging their Spurs careers when we have plenty of assets to make things work without them.

In a year Bryant will surely be a better player than Jeremy if Jeremy doesn't develop his jumpshot.
Image if it was Jeremy getting fouled in clutch time. Would we have won the game?

Fox/Harper
Castle/Waters
Champ/Bryant
Barnes/Olynyk
Wemby/Kornet

Would you look at that, everyone fits their role and can play multiple positions.
The question presents itself do we even need the friendship crew?
Because our level of play and winning percentage got better when they sat both in 23-24 and 24-25 seasons.

Upgrading them to a legit PF would be the dream scenario.

 

[spurraider21]

Upgrading them to a legit PF would be the dream scenario.

John Collins 2026 thread?

 

[OK Computer]

If Olynyk doesn’t play a lick of preseason, I have a hard time believing he’s in any shape to play during the regular season. Historically, preseason is usually the time they solidify the lineups they’re going to play during the regular season. Yes, we have injuries right now, but still. If he plays at all, then I think it’s another season in the tank, tbh. Hope I’m proven wrong.

 

[Exstatic]

If Olynyk doesn’t play a lick of preseason, I have a hard time believing he’s in any shape to play during the regular season. Historically, preseason is usually the time they solidify the lineups they’re going to play during the regular season. Yes, we have injuries right now, but still. If he plays at all, then I think it’s another season in the tank, tbh. Hope I’m proven wrong.

Not playing a guy who’s recovering from surgery =/= tanking.