Player Sochan's Extension Watch

[The Truth #6]

I'm assuming his jumper still sucks. But I am curious if Sweeney can find a place for him in a defensive scheme that is effective for us. Despite all our point guards and their offensive potential, I still feel like defense will be what makes or breaks this season.

 

[Shmurs]

This is where the weird Sochan cult comes out of the woodwork ignoring the previous 15 games, 'Jeremy heard yall talkin shit!'

r/nbaspurs is already printing out their “apology forms” for Keldon since he dazzled us with his sharpshooting the other day. Sniffers are already going to work.

 

[Shmurs]

There’s this other thing with Sochan that’s a little obfuscated by his limitations in talent.

The injuries won’t get better. His game is predicated on exerting a ton of energy on D and around the rim. Those are rough minutes, and for a young guy that’s a lot of injuries already. The thumb…whatever. But soft tissue and back injuries for a guy who’s only chance at success is his high motor - hard pass. I think it’s even plausible that he’s peaked as an iso defender at this point. The athleticism and health will decline because that’s how it works for everyone. So where does someone like this make up ground?

 

[dn0774]

Question, has he been a full go in training camp or is the calf still holding him out from that even? I've watched the little clips the media team has put out but I can't recall seeing him playing full contact, not trying to go dig through those again. Just wondering if he is low key not going to be ready for the season opener as well.

 

[ambchang]

So take it for what it is, but according to nba advanced stats, sochan is actually best in eFG% and scoring frequency, as well as third in PPP as the pick and roll ball handler on the team. Doesn’t mean that he scored at that rate, just that the team scored at that rate when he’s the ball handler (at least based on how I understand the stats). But take it with a huge handful of salt as it’s only half a possession per game over 54 games, comparing to 3+ for Vassell, Paul, fox and castle. He’s 83rd percentile on offense (?!!??) and 67th on d.

As a roll man he’s 3rd on the team in fg%,scoring frequency and ppp, behind Vassell and bassey in all three. That’s on high frequency as well as he has the second highest possession per game on the team behind wemby. Puts him about 75th percentile in the league on o. But he’s only 14th as a d in these situations.

He’s also 50th percentile on post ups (I’m struggling to understand why) on offense and 66th on defense.

In isolation he’s expectedly bad at 20th percentile on O but then Wemby is even worse at 17.5th. Not sure how this works. On d he’s 87th percentage but then Vassell is 96th. I’m thinking they mixed up Wembys and Vassell stats.

As a cutter he’s surprisingly bad at 44th percentile.

On d he’s 66th off screens. Didn’t get enough possessions to get o data.

So while he’s not some superstar on offense, he is far from being as useless as most of you make it out to be. He is mostly at or above average on most offensive plays. Then of course keldon and Vassell rates pretty well on some of them as well so take it for what’s it’s worth. The plays you guys complain about the most (him being low iq) happens so infrequently it didn’t even make the minimum for the stats, and yet all these hearsay about him doing it multiple times a game just doesn’t line up.

For some guy who has such a low usage rate (3rd least of the regulars) there is just an outsized amount of blame on our offensive ineptitude placed on him.

 

[Exstatic]

So take it for what it is, but according to nba advanced stats, sochan is actually best in eFG% and scoring frequency, as well as third in PPP as the pick and roll ball handler on the team. Doesn’t mean that he scored at that rate, just that the team scored at that rate when he’s the ball handler (at least based on how I understand the stats). But take it with a huge handful of salt as it’s only half a possession per game over 54 games, comparing to 3+ for Vassell, Paul, fox and castle. He’s 83rd percentile on offense (?!!??) and 67th on d.

As a roll man he’s 3rd on the team in fg%,scoring frequency and ppp, behind Vassell and bassey in all three. That’s on high frequency as well as he has the second highest possession per game on the team behind wemby. Puts him about 75th percentile in the league on o. But he’s only 14th as a d in these situations.

He’s also 50th percentile on post ups (I’m struggling to understand why) on offense and 66th on defense.

In isolation he’s expectedly bad at 20th percentile on O but then Wemby is even worse at 17.5th. Not sure how this works. On d he’s 87th percentage but then Vassell is 96th. I’m thinking they mixed up Wembys and Vassell stats.

As a cutter he’s surprisingly bad at 44th percentile.

On d he’s 66th off screens. Didn’t get enough possessions to get o data.

So while he’s not some superstar on offense, he is far from being as useless as most of you make it out to be. He is mostly at or above average on most offensive plays. Then of course keldon and Vassell rates pretty well on some of them as well so take it for what’s it’s worth. The plays you guys complain about the most (him being low iq) happens so infrequently it didn’t even make the minimum for the stats, and yet all these hearsay about him doing it multiple times a game just doesn’t line up.

For some guy who has such a low usage rate (3rd least of the regulars) there is just an outsized amount of blame on our offensive ineptitude placed on him.

You’re yelling into the echo chamber.

 

[poopbox]

The potential risk is he is simply not NBA ready mentally or physically and throwing him out there may retard or destroy his development. I don't know, hopefully the new assistants are worth their weight and do know.

What is am pretty confident of though, is it really doesn't take much production at all for say Champ + CB to outperform say Sochan + KJ pretty much across the board.

Everything I read pre and post draft, CB is a project today that is not ready for anything but spot NBA minutes, but think that was more physical and growing up in the deaf community may have him much more prepared mentally. No idea if that's true, but personally I'm much more concerned with 2/3/4 yrs from now, and I think Oly may answer a ton of our Sochan related questions, and if Oly does that the risk/reward on giving CB real minutes doesn't look favorable.

But also take your point, if CB is mentally ready, even if not physically, it probably is just delaying the inevitable and those 2/3/4 yrs may be much better by learning on the fly this season, just a matter of is he adding value (like by taking KJs minutes) or subtracting from maybe Oly or Champ who better serve the team.

I'm soooo ready to start getting some answers this season!!

You don't get nba ready mentally or physically by not playing in the nba.

 

[spurraider21]

anybody else get nervous every time they see this thread bumped?

 

[Shmurs]

So take it for what it is, but according to nba advanced stats, sochan is actually best in eFG% and scoring frequency, as well as third in PPP as the pick and roll ball handler on the team. Doesn’t mean that he scored at that rate, just that the team scored at that rate when he’s the ball handler (at least based on how I understand the stats). But take it with a huge handful of salt as it’s only half a possession per game over 54 games, comparing to 3+ for Vassell, Paul, fox and castle. He’s 83rd percentile on offense (?!!??) and 67th on d.

As a roll man he’s 3rd on the team in fg%,scoring frequency and ppp, behind Vassell and bassey in all three. That’s on high frequency as well as he has the second highest possession per game on the team behind wemby. Puts him about 75th percentile in the league on o. But he’s only 14th as a d in these situations.

He’s also 50th percentile on post ups (I’m struggling to understand why) on offense and 66th on defense.

In isolation he’s expectedly bad at 20th percentile on O but then Wemby is even worse at 17.5th. Not sure how this works. On d he’s 87th percentage but then Vassell is 96th. I’m thinking they mixed up Wembys and Vassell stats.

As a cutter he’s surprisingly bad at 44th percentile.

On d he’s 66th off screens. Didn’t get enough possessions to get o data.

So while he’s not some superstar on offense, he is far from being as useless as most of you make it out to be. He is mostly at or above average on most offensive plays. Then of course keldon and Vassell rates pretty well on some of them as well so take it for what’s it’s worth. The plays you guys complain about the most (him being low iq) happens so infrequently it didn’t even make the minimum for the stats, and yet all these hearsay about him doing it multiple times a game just doesn’t line up.

For some guy who has such a low usage rate (3rd least of the regulars) there is just an outsized amount of blame on our offensive ineptitude placed on him.

this is more a statement about advanced stats being junk and playing with victor being easy than it is about Sochan being good.

 

[dn0774]

anybody else get nervous every time they see this thread bumped?

lol yes, yes I do.

The good news is if the Spurs were going to roll over and overpay it likely would’ve happened by now.

 

[J_Posse301]

Deadline is Oct. 20.

I hope the Spurs not offer him an extension and see how he plays this season.
As we saw this offseason, restricted free=agents have no leverage in negotiations.

As much as I like Sochan and want him to remain on the team (since he is one of our only plus defenders with Castle & Wemby), I have to completely agree with this take.

No reason to extend him - possibly with an overpay - when we can allow him to 'test the market' & match any corresponding offer. The team is gonna have a lot of money tied up in Wemby, Castle & Harper soon, so moves past this point should be done with that in mind.

The Spurs do need more shooting around Wemby, but they also need guys that can defend multiple positions & are good to great on that end.

Unfortunately, they are lacking in both categories while Sochan can provide only one. He has gotten better with his rebounding, cutting and passing so hopefully growth elsewhere can come this season.

 

[The Truth #6]

Realistically, his injuries will drive down his value more than anything, which Shmurs acknowledged (celebrated?) Ha.

This season is going to be another rollercoaster I assume. Injuries already, a few transcendent winning streaks most likely, missed jumpers galore, wrist slashing over coaching choices. Buckle up!

I expect them to improve on a similar trajectory from what they did last year.

 

[DTW]

Every time I've heard Kornet speak since he signed, he's talked as if him and Wembanyama regularly playing some together was almost part of the deal and it seems Wembanyama wants it to happen too.

The trickle down effect is probably Sochan losing even more minutes, which is all the more reason to not extend him even if he'd accept sub MLE money. Nnaji and Vanderbilt are recent examples of thought to be fine contracts when signed, only to immediately turn bad.

 

[Exstatic]

lol yes, yes I do.

The good news is if the Spurs were going to roll over and overpay it likely would’ve happened by now.

Devin’s was on the last day. Just saying’. The spurs have a history of waiting until the last minute. In fact, the last early deal I remember was Keldon’s bargain contract. Take from that what you may.

 

[spurraider21]

to me the as much as issue with Sochan is his lack of outside shooting, its equally his lack of meaningful help defense, and in particular, weakside rim protection. if you cant provide spacing on offense, you at least need to provide some interior protection on defense. im not saying he needs to be a primary rim protector like a center or something, but the type of weakside shotblocking we've seen Carter Bryant do is what i was hoping Sochan would at least provid some of

this is something cooper flagg does and already showcased in his preseason debut. and here you have buzelis showing some as well

https://twitter.com/x/status/1975714734910677428

 

[KobesAchilles]

to me the as much as issue with Sochan is his lack of outside shooting, its equally his lack of meaningful help defense, and in particular, weakside rim protection. if you cant provide spacing on offense, you at least need to provide some interior protection on defense. im not saying he needs to be a primary rim protector like a center or something, but the type of weakside shotblocking we've seen Carter Bryant do is what i was hoping Sochan would at least provid some of

this is something cooper flagg does and already showcased in his preseason debut. and here you have buzelis showing some as well

https://twitter.com/x/status/1975714734910677428

I really wanted the Spurs to draft him with that 8th pick

 

[ambchang]

this is more a statement about advanced stats being junk and playing with victor being easy than it is about Sochan being good.

Perhaps something more specific rather than saying something that doesn’t agree with you is junk would be helpful.

I’m still trying to understand how sochan can make poor decisions multiple times a game driving to the hoop when he doesn’t even drive enough to the hoop to be qualified for stats.

There’s also on off stats for sochan that points to him helping more than hurting.

I would be very interested in you finding non junk stats that back up your claims instead of I saw him do this multiple times every game evidence.

 

[Ariel]

I really wanted the Spurs to draft him with that 8th pick

Buzelis was my third option at no. 4, I had Castle 1st, Risacher 2nd, and Buzelis 3rd for that pick.

 

[scott]

I was big time on the Buzz Brigade. And before anyone suggests we wouldn't have gotten Fox had we taken Matas, that's simply not true - we had plenty of other picks we could have used in that deal.

Now, we may not have gotten one of CP3 or Barnes...

 

[scott]

Perhaps something more specific rather than saying something that doesn’t agree with you is junk would be helpful.

I’m still trying to understand how sochan can make poor decisions multiple times a game driving to the hoop when he doesn’t even drive enough to the hoop to be qualified for stats.

There’s also on off stats for sochan that points to him helping more than hurting.

I would be very interested in you finding non junk stats that back up your claims instead of I saw him do this multiple times every game evidence.

I'd be curious to see how the plays where Sochan penetrates into the paint and then jumps and turns around mid-air to find an outlet pass are scored. Are those "drives"? Seems like they happen a lot... but maybe they only happened like 5 times all year but they are so egregious that we Mandela-effect ourselves into believing they are more frequent.

 

[ambchang]

I'd be curious to see how the plays where Sochan penetrates into the paint and then jumps and turns around mid-air to find an outlet pass are scored. Are those "drives"? Seems like they happen a lot... but maybe they only happened like 5 times all year but they are so egregious that we Mandela-effect ourselves into believing they are more frequent.

My understanding is that those are drives that would end up as turnovers. Thing about sochan is that he attracts an outsized amount of attention, mostly bad. My theory is that it’s partly due to his personality (hair, goofiness), partly due to his clumsiness and awkward movements, and mostly because of failed expectations.

Castle is heading that way if he doesn’t right the ship on those gaudy defensive numbers.

 

[KobesAchilles]

My understanding is that those are drives that would end up as turnovers. Thing about sochan is that he attracts an outsized amount of attention, mostly bad. My theory is that it’s partly due to his personality (hair, goofiness), partly due to his clumsiness and awkward movements, and mostly because of failed expectations.

Castle is heading that way if he doesn’t right the ship on those gaudy defensive numbers.

Mine is strictly his shot. He’s changed his shot every single year and every single year his shot has supposedly improved but in reality it never has.

And his lack of a shot has affected his mindset bc he’s aware of his shitty shooting ability and refuses to shoot open 3s. Sochan shot 1.7 threes a game last year and he was open waaaay more than that. In fact opposing teams purposely leave him open knowing he’s not going to either A) shoot the open shot or B) make the open shot.

And you can’t post instagram videos of you working on your shot during the summer when you don’t even make them in game. That’s what Ben Simmons did all the time. Sochan put out videos of him working hard last summer just for us not to see any improvement on it. He’s too boy who cried wolf for me. Stop posting shitty workouts and let the Spurs post your made 3s from actual games

 

[TBdog]

I'm pretty sure the Spurs are not starting Sochan in favour of Barnes. I personally think that's a mistake. I understand the lack of shooting in the starting unit would be a concern with Sochan and Castle starting. But then I'm really concerned at the bench unit of Harper, Julian, Keldon, Sochan, and Kornet. That's a bad way to create room for Harper. I think Barnes really helps here.

Also not starting in the NBA is a sure way not to get paid. His agent might want to ask out to try net him a place as a starter.

 

[Ariel]

I'm pretty sure the Spurs are not starting Sochan in favour of Barnes. I personally think that's a mistake. I understand the lack of shooting in the starting unit would be a concern with Sochan and Castle starting. But then I'm really concerned at the bench unit of Harper, Julian, Keldon, Sochan, and Kornet. That's a bad way to create room for Harper. I think Barnes really helps here.

Also not starting in the NBA is a sure way not to get paid. His agent might want to ask out to try net him a place as a starter.

Where would Sochan realistically expect to start, though? Maybe you can make a case for a couple of teams, but even then I don't think it's a slam dunk. He would be better served developing the skills that allow him to be playable in a high stakes game, which right now is not the case. That should set his grandchildren for life, even if he doesn't start.

 

[Shmurs]

I'm pretty sure the Spurs are not starting Sochan in favour of Barnes. I personally think that's a mistake. I understand the lack of shooting in the starting unit would be a concern with Sochan and Castle starting. But then I'm really concerned at the bench unit of Harper, Julian, Keldon, Sochan, and Kornet. That's a bad way to create room for Harper. I think Barnes really helps here.

Also not starting in the NBA is a sure way not to get paid. His agent might want to ask out to try net him a place as a starter.

5 man units aren’t really a thing. Everyone gets staggered, so I wouldn’t predict those 5 bench players all sharing the court that much.

And Keldon kills whatever half court offense we’re going for on the second unit anyway. No need to cram one of the most limited wings in the league in as a starter because the other non-starters are also bad. That doesn’t make a lot of sense.