Player Sochan's Extension Watch

[Shmurs]

I don’t think there should be any concern about whether Bryant is 3 or 4. He’s big and strong enough for a 4 and quick and rangey enough for a 3.

I have faith in a serviceable jump shot from the guy. But it’s TBD about his processing. It’s another raw player that’s coming out of college with a minus IQ. Even by summer league standards, the guy was totally lost on offense. No reason to be worried yet I guess , other than the recent history of player development.

 

[LeBowen]

We don't need 5 masterminds on the floor, we just need role players to have enough self-awareness about their limitations.
As in Jeremy not realizing that an open lane when he has the ball is just a bait which mostly ends up with him turning it over because he can't actually score over rim protectors.
Or Devin not having enough self-awareness to realize that pounding the ball for 10 seconds and shooting a contested mid-range isn't what we need him to do.

 

[TR21]

I'd offer him minimum wage. What is it? $7.25 per hour? If he wants more than that he can go.

Spurs really need to consolidate either of Vassell/Sochan or Johnson/Sochan into one player and contract

 

[Fabbs]

One year extension Club Option only? This would at least maintain some trade return value.

Or would Rodman wannabe and agent reject?

 

[Arguendo]

Anything much over 15MM and I’d rather just wait and make him prove himself. Less than that and I’d probably be happy extending him now. I’m still holding out hope that he’s a legitimate rotation guy but I’d be lying if I said I was very confident.

I don't have a good handle on Sochan's market value, but even 15M seems like way too much. Factor in the bad bargaining position of a RFA, poor roster fit, and Sochan almost certainly seeing a drop to significant drop in minutes which has to further erode his market value. If I'm the Spurs I let him play it out unless its a very team friendly deal. Tre Jones is a high-end backup and a reliable piece and he got 3/$24M as an RFA with only $16M guaranteed.
Sure Jeremy has much more upside potential and is a couple of yrs younger, but he also has a much lower floor and is a tweener.

Can anyone confidently say Sochan is a high-end backup or will be? I still have some hope for him, but IMO he either needs to take something a lot closer to $10M or prove he's worth more on the court and prove he's grown TF up.

 

[blueguy]

I don't have a good handle on Sochan's market value, but even 15M seems like way too much. Factor in the bad bargaining position of a RFA, poor roster fit, and Sochan almost certainly seeing a drop to significant drop in minutes which has to further erode his market value. If I'm the Spurs I let him play it out unless its a very team friendly deal. Tre Jones is a high-end backup and a reliable piece and he got 3/$24M as an RFA with only $16M guaranteed.
Sure Jeremy has much more upside potential and is a couple of yrs younger, but he also has a much lower floor and is a tweener.

Can anyone confidently say Sochan is a high-end backup or will be? I still have some hope for him, but IMO he either needs to take something a lot closer to $10M or prove he's worth more on the court and prove he's grown TF up.

100%.

The Spurs had a hand in screwing up his development, but he would be an odd fit on any modern NBA team. I think the best bet is to let him play out this year, at least this roster has more actual NBA talent on it....so, in theory, that should help see what we got here.

 

[Arguendo]

Jesus, Kuminga just got two years $48.5 million with minimal leverage. Yeah someone's going to throw stupid money at Sochan. God I hope it's not the Spurs.

IMO Kuminga had a lot more leverage than Sochan will. Bigger name, more "star" upside vs role-player upside, and GSW doesn't have any assets. They are pot committed to this geriatric roster as a last hurrah, they couldn't just let him walk.
Much different than the Spurs/Sochan situation.

 

[Arguendo]

We don't need 5 masterminds on the floor, we just need role players to have enough self-awareness about their limitations.
As in Jeremy not realizing that an open lane when he has the ball is just a bait which mostly ends up with him turning it over because he can't actually score over rim protectors.
Or Devin not having enough self-awareness to realize that pounding the ball for 10 seconds and shooting a contested mid-range isn't what we need him to do.

Totally agree, what we need around Vic/Fox are play-in-your-role guys. Castle, Barnes, Oly, Champ, Kornet all seem to be very much that type. I'm not sure KJ, Sochan, or Vassell honestly understand the concept of playing in a role.

I'm afraid the yrs of hard-tanking, let KJ/Vassell/Branham do whatever the fuck they wanted may have permanently closed the door for Sochan and Vassell to become the role players they should be. Never learned structure, never learned team, never learned role.
Hope I'm wrong, hope something clicked for one or both this offseason, but so far they both look like low BBIQ AAU ballers. Sucks, because they are both clearly NBA caliber players, but likely need a change of scenario to really change their play.

 

[Shmurs]

I don't have a good handle on Sochan's market value, but even 15M seems like way too much. Factor in the bad bargaining position of a RFA, poor roster fit, and Sochan almost certainly seeing a drop to significant drop in minutes which has to further erode his market value. If I'm the Spurs I let him play it out unless its a very team friendly deal. Tre Jones is a high-end backup and a reliable piece and he got 3/$24M as an RFA with only $16M guaranteed.
Sure Jeremy has much more upside potential and is a couple of yrs younger, but he also has a much lower floor and is a tweener.

Can anyone confidently say Sochan is a high-end backup or will be? I still have some hope for him, but IMO he either needs to take something a lot closer to $10M or prove he's worth more on the court and prove he's grown TF up.

Most of my frustration with this stems from the thing where teams figure out their own guys before other teams do.

Typically at this point a guy in Wright’s position would have been agonizing over this for the last year, watching Jeremy very closely to see if we have something to work with. If you’re an elite basketball mind paying that degree of attention every day to a guy that the national media hasn’t checked in on in a couple years, you have an advantage in bailing on the guy before everyone realizes what you realize.

Jeremy, this summer, would have still fetched a good return. But that’s the end of it. He’s now a bench guy on a middling team. There will be much more hesitation from other GM’s now.

With that said…I think there are still suckers out there who would want him. There just won’t exactly be a bidding war.

 

[LeBowen]

Totally agree, what we need around Vic/Fox are play-in-your-role guys. Castle, Barnes, Oly, Champ, Kornet all seem to be very much that type. I'm not sure KJ, Sochan, or Vassell honestly understand the concept of playing in a role.

I'm afraid the yrs of hard-tanking, let KJ/Vassell/Branham do whatever the fuck they wanted may have permanently closed the door for Sochan and Vassell to become the role players they should be. Never learned structure, never learned team, never learned role.
Hope I'm wrong, hope something clicked for one or both this offseason, but so far they both look like low BBIQ AAU ballers. Sucks, because they are both clearly NBA caliber players, but likely need a change of scenario to really change their play.

The evidence is certainly stacked up against them.

We had a great run at the end of 23-24 season with Tre/Branham/Champ/Mamu/Wemby lineup when friendship crew got shut down. That was the first proof that they're negative contributors.
Then last season both Jeremy and Devin got injured, we were playing really well with CP3/Castle/Champ/Barnes/Wemby lineup only for it to go to shit when those two returned.

Champ will be the biggest loser yet again, even though he was the perfect 5th option role player in the starting lineup.
6'8, isn't a negative on defense, averaged 12.5ppg, 5 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1 steal and 0.5 blocks in 30 games at the start of the season when he played 29mpg. 37% from 3pt on 7 attempts.
Not a wing you want starting in the playoffs, but a perfect role player for where our team is at right now.
Even though Devin is a more complete package as a player, we don't need his mediocre on the ball talents or Kobe-wannabe iso-ball. As you said.

We just need to surround Wemby and our paint penetrators with 3-D wings, it's that simple.

 

[Ariel]

OK, let's assume for a minute Sochan's shot DOESN'T come around. What kind of player are we looking at, realistically? Someone in between Vanderbilt and Bruce Brown? The latter got paid 20+ million per year short term (1+1, last year team option), and became instantly poisonous in that contract, both are currently making a hair over 10 million per year and none are seen as underpaid. This should be a realistic price tag for Sochan that doesn't skew heavily towards unlikely, overoptimistic outcomes. So if he were to be extended, I think Spurs shouldn't go above, say, a Kornet type deal, possibly 4 years with the last one being a team option. Honestly, probably a bit lower. But I'd rather wait until next offseason.

 

[LeBowen]

OK, let's assume for a minute Sochan's shot DOESN'T come around. What kind of player are we looking at, realistically? Someone in between Vanderbilt and Bruce Brown? The latter got paid 20+ million short term, and became instantly poisonous in that contract, both are currently making a hair over 10 million and none are seen as underpaid. This should be a realistic price tag for Sochan that doesn't skew heavily towards unlikely overoptimistic outcomes. So if he were to be extended, I think Spurs shouldn't go above, say, a Kornet type deal, possibly 4 years with the last one being a team option. Honestly, probably a bit lower. But I'd rather wait until next offseason.

And Jeremy can't really hope that there's a team dumb enough to throw a bag at him because of the new CBA.
As we've seen this summer, overpaid role players won't be a thing anymore.

If Jeremy never learns to shoot, he needs to become an S-tier defender and even then he wouldn't have guaranteed playoff minutes.
If there's no improvement over the first few months, I'd just trade him before the deadline, maybe we can get another reclamation project in return.

Spurs future roster building looks really simple to me.
We have Wemby, Fox, Castle and Harper on long-term deals.
Kornet looks like a perfect Wemby backup for at least 3 seasons.
Having another PF/C hybrid that can shoot like Olynyk is perfect.
Castle and Harper are two more paint penetrators with high potential ceiling.
We don't need to spend any more cap space on guards, just have another veteran backup like McL and minimum deal projects like Waters or DJG.

The rest of the cap space needs to go on 3-D wings.
I'd say 4 to 5 players between 6'7 and 6'10 that can both defend and shoot above 35% from 3pt on decent volume.
Champ and Barnes are two. Carter is the project that won't be getting many minutes.
In my ideal roster we'd be replacing Devin/Keldon/Jeremy with two more 3-D wings.
Danny, Bowen, someone like prime Batum, you get the point. I really like Jaden McDaniels if we're talking current players.

We don't need ball stoppers like Devin or non-shooters like Jeremy. Cut our losses if they can't adapt to the needed roles and move on. We got enough assets without them.

 

[Seventyniner]

OK, let's assume for a minute Sochan's shot DOESN'T come around. What kind of player are we looking at, realistically? Someone in between Vanderbilt and Bruce Brown? The latter got paid 20+ million per year short term (1+1, last year team option), and became instantly poisonous in that contract, both are currently making a hair over 10 million per year and none are seen as underpaid. This should be a realistic price tag for Sochan that doesn't skew heavily towards unlikely, overoptimistic outcomes. So if he were to be extended, I think Spurs shouldn't go above, say, a Kornet type deal, possibly 4 years with the last one being a team option. Honestly, probably a bit lower. But I'd rather wait until next offseason.

I don't think there's any overlap between what most posters here would be willing to offer on an extension (some have said 4/40) and what Sochan would be smart to accept. He's young enough that locking in his age 24 and 25 seasons at 10M per with the cap continuing to rise doesn't make sense for him.

Full MLE next season starts at 15M or so. The largest full MLE contract another team can offer is 4/65, and I doubt Sochan would extend with the Spurs for much less than that.

One interesting thing I heard from Vecenie was that extending a player on an amount that fits into another team's MLE makes him much more tradable in the future because another team can absorb his contract into the MLE and create a trade exception for the other team. That opens up the market to all teams with the MLE rather than just those with enough actual cap space.

If the player is at least neutral value, it shouldn't require any sweeteners to get off the MLE-sized contract.

 

[Ariel]

I don't think there's any overlap between what most posters here would be willing to offer on an extension (some have said 4/40) and what Sochan would be smart to accept. He's young enough that locking in his age 24 and 25 seasons at 10M per with the cap continuing to rise doesn't make sense for him.

Full MLE next season starts at 15M or so. The largest full MLE contract another team can offer is 4/65, and I doubt Sochan would extend with the Spurs for much less than that.

One interesting thing I heard from Vecenie was that extending a player on an amount that fits into another team's MLE makes him much more tradable in the future because another team can absorb his contract into the MLE and create a trade exception for the other team. That opens up the market to all teams with the MLE rather than just those with enough actual cap space.

If the player is at least neutral value, it shouldn't require any sweeteners to get off the MLE-sized contract.

I don't think I agree. If I were a player of Sochan's caliber, coming off my first rookie contract, I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to guarantee myself generational wealth. We all here play around with numbers like the armchair GMs that we are, but in terms of impact on your life, guaranteeing yourself 40 million now is well worth risking leaving a few more on the table, especially for a player coming off a rookie scale deal. If he blows up, he can always make up the difference in a third contract (like, say, Mikal Bridges did), but bird in hand would be my approach if I were him, so I wouldn't scoff at that offer.

 

[brazil]

Let’s say you had 3 employees and one of them was a new hire that needs a little work and the other two have been in your company for a number of years and really just aren’t meshing with your company. They work hard but after years of training they just don’t seem to get it. And you’re thinking about getting rid of them. Why wouldn’t you put your emphasis on the new guy who you can mold bs the other employees who you tried and failed to mold.

At the end of January, Carter Bryant needs to be getting consistent minutes. We should play Sochan and Vassell early in the year. See if they actually did improve but if we don’t see improvement then they need to make room for the guy who’s actually going to be on our team in 5 years time. It doesn’t matter if Bryant isn’t ready bc 6 years in and Vassell isn’t ready either. And he isn’t “ahead” of Bryant on defense. And he wouldn’t be “ahead” of Bryant as a role player either bc all Bryant knew on Arizona was to be a role player. He wasn’t a focal point at all on offense. He just had to hit open shots and play defense which he did. He can do the same role as a pro bc he is bigger, longer, taller, and has more want to on that side of the ball than Vassell.

Vassell needs to go. I don’t see how Spurs fans can go from Manu to Vassell and be ok with how he plays. Has Vassell ever taken a charge in his entire career? Has he even been in position or paid enough attention on defense to be able to read a play and take one?

I think this would be fine if your objective was another transition year. From what I understood Spurs want to make the POs. As you said with Vassell and Sochan you know what you have, with Carter you have a raw prospect. Give him some minutes and see what he can do but my opinion is that he is not nba ready. This team lacks shooting, replacing an even not so good shooter with a non shooter would make things worst. I have never seen any team daring Vassell to shoot from 3 and letting him wide open to clock the paint.

 

[DTW]

Wright's comment seems like they'll wait and see.

Hopefully they don't give him one. With Harper and Kornet, a role reduction is likely and by not extending him, it keeps alive the possibility of including him in a consolidation trade to upgrade at forward.

 

[Arguendo]

I don't think there's any overlap between what most posters here would be willing to offer on an extension (some have said 4/40) and what Sochan would be smart to accept. He's young enough that locking in his age 24 and 25 seasons at 10M per with the cap continuing to rise doesn't make sense for him.

Full MLE next season starts at 15M or so. The largest full MLE contract another team can offer is 4/65, and I doubt Sochan would extend with the Spurs for much less than that.

Two other things to consider. Texas is a no State income tax and you pay taxes where the money is earned. I've run the numbers before, playing for a Tx team gets you around a 9-9.5% net pay bump over a Cali team or Tor and NY is close to that. That's something fans never seem to factor in, but you can bet Agents do. That's not totally unique to the Spurs, but its a really nice fringe benefit to playing here, especially if you save and compound that over a few yrs.

Of course SA provides way less marketing/endorsement deals than other places, but playing with Wemby offers two unique endorsement possibilities: international deals today and the media attention and LT potential of playing with an All-time guy.
Sochan may well value playing next to Wemby & Co because that potential, obvious Championship potential and constant media coverage.
Championship role-players have far greater life-long endorsement opportunities compared to other role players and even mid-level "stars".

There's also a middle ground many posters here and Sochan may settle on, a prove-it type deal with increasing salaries with team options. Something that lets Sochan bet on himself while committing to the team and Spurs are the #1 organization at valuing and rewarding loyalty. Maybe something like a 3/40 with about 1/2 that guaranteed and the final yr non-guaranteed. Just throwing out numbers, I have no idea what Sochan's market is nor how he values himself and these factors.
I'm positive playing next to Durant/Kyrie/Harden & winning with Joker was a big part in Bruce Brown getting that 2/45M deal. He's looked like a much lesser player since those days while entering his prime.

IMO for fans to discuss what he's smart to accept, I think you have to factor this stuff in. 3/40 here may be a much smarter decision than taking 4/65 in Sac or Tor or Bkln, especially since right now Sochan is the only big Forward on the team under the age of 33. If he wants to bet on himself, doing it as Wemby's potential starting big partner is his best bet to really maximize career earning. I don't see him as that, but I'd bet he does.

 

[scott]

I find this thread title to be threatening.

"Sochan's Extension... watch!"

 

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't think I agree. If I were a player of Sochan's caliber, coming off my first rookie contract, I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to guarantee myself generational wealth. We all here play around with numbers like the armchair GMs that we are, but in terms of impact on your life, guaranteeing yourself 40 million now is well worth risking leaving a few more on the table, especially for a player coming off a rookie scale deal. If he blows up, he can always make up the difference in a third contract (like, say, Mikal Bridges did), but bird in hand would be my approach if I were him, so I wouldn't scoff at that offer.

He said in an interview during the offseason that he really wants that second contract to set himself up financially, which makes sense. So he's very aware of that.

 

[Shmurs]

the 3 amigos had their path mapped out for them. They were gifted a once in a century center to revolve around and work with, and all 3 did their own vision boards and personal truths instead. I guess you could say Jeremy has focused on the art of cutting when you’re wide open, which I’ll give him credit for. Those other 2 still look like they’ve never played with Vic before. So much money left on the table. Being a Wemby whisperer will pay well, for whichever guy wants to give it a try.

 

[BacktoBasics]

Great deal - 10 per year
Appropriate - 11 per year
Acceptable - 12 per year
Borderline - 13-14 per year
Questionably bad - 15 per year
BBums Suicide Watch - >15 per year

 

[dn0774]

the 3 amigos had their path mapped out for them. They were gifted a once in a century center to revolve around and work with, and all 3 did their own vision boards and personal truths instead. I guess you could say Jeremy has focused on the art of cutting when you’re wide open, which I’ll give him credit for. Those other 2 still look like they’ve never played with Vic before. So much money left on the table. Being a Wemby whisperer will pay well, for whichever guy wants to give it a try.

Wemby is a stretch big who passes extremely well and protects the rim at a generational level. If a player can't fit in around that then I question their skill at basketball and/or their mental acuity. The extreme example is Jokic; he should be the easiest player in the world to mesh with and yet we still hear about dummies like Bones Hyland who say they are a bad fit. Just seems like the friendship crew failed to read the tea leaves and took too long to understand that they aren't the co-stars, they are the supporting cast.

edit to add: No extension unless its $10 million AAV or less. Give him a prove it year otherwise.

 

[JJSPUR]

Sochan kind of reminds me of Brandon Clarke. He's sometimes a starter, sometimes off the bench, and sometimes he's just injured. Both are decent energy role players but not irreplaceable. Given that Clarke was given 12.5 million or so, adjusting for inflation, 14 million sounds about right. I'm not sure he's shown more than that.

Again the spurs have another year to evaluate him.

 

[poopbox]

if you look at Carter and Sochan.. Carter will not be at Sochan caliber. Sochan is way ahead of Carter. Nba is not any rookie can just turn the lights on..

What is meant by "Sochan caliber"? This dude can't shoot can't defend can't pass he can't do anything but get tattoos in his armpits and wreck his car.

 

[KobesAchilles]

I think this would be fine if your objective was another transition year. From what I understood Spurs want to make the POs. As you said with Vassell and Sochan you know what you have, with Carter you have a raw prospect. Give him some minutes and see what he can do but my opinion is that he is not nba ready. This team lacks shooting, replacing an even not so good shooter with a non shooter would make things worst. I have never seen any team daring Vassell to shoot from 3 and letting him wide open to clock the paint.

Imo the Spurs are trying to have their cake and eat it to when it comes to the playoffs. They are making win now moves (like trading for Fox and getting Barnes) while not admitting that they messed up with their picks of Sochan and Vassell and KJ. So the Spurs can go into the year wanting to make the playoffs all they want.

My projection on what the reality of the year will look like is that we don’t make the playoffs due mainly to playing 3 net negative players. And I’m not talking stats. Just more stupidity and lack of attention to detail and wrong mindset when it comes to winning. These 3 players are dead weight and will drag the team down. And imo when this season is looked back in retrospect, everyone here is going to be saying how obvious it was that we didn’t make the playoffs.