Player Sochan's Extension Watch

[KobesAchilles]

No point signing a 4+ year deal for him. The Spurs don’t even know if he has a role on the team in 4 years. I’d rather they do a 2 year 40 million than a 4 year 52

 

[Kick-Stand]

Any contract longer than two years for Sochan is a grave mistake. The team can't be giving these friendship crew deals out anymore with the supermax extension for Wemby looming then extensions for Castle and Harper too on top of the veteran max they're paying Fox. Sochan isn't worth losing one of Fox, Castle, or Harper but that's what a significant contract to him costs you. If within a couple of months he hasn't shown himself to be a critical part of this team, including a vastly improved three point shot, he needs to be traded for veteran role players on short term deals who won't get in the way of a Castle nor Harper extension.

 

[Ariel]

Camara and Shaedon Sharpe just signed their extensions. Sochan extension incoming…

4/82 for Camara sets the ceiling IMO. I doubt a deal gets done, but no way it's near $20M/yr. $12-15M/yr seems acceptable, but it hinges heavily on his ability to hit spot up 3s.

Then Sochan's price tag should be half that, TBH. Any more and I'm leading the Brian Wright lynching mob.

 

[Ariel]

Any contract longer than two years for Sochan is a grave mistake. The team can't be giving these friendship crew deals out anymore with the supermax extension for Wemby looming then extensions for Castle and Harper too on top of the veteran max they're paying Fox. Sochan isn't worth losing one of Fox, Castle, or Harper in but that's what a significant contract to him costs you.

Too long may ruin the cap outlook, too short doesn't really help you long term if he takes a leap, why the hell would you extend him, then? Just leverage RFA like every other team. Last contracts handed out by Brian Wright proved to be overpays, for the most part (Keldon, Vassell, Zach Collins, etc). Someone tell him he doesn't HAVE to extend his own players... Look at Houston, Atlanta, OKC for how to negotiate with your own players.

 

[Kick-Stand]

Too long may ruin the cap outlook, too short doesn't really help you long term if he takes a leap, why the hell would you extend him, then? Just leverage RFA like every other team. Last contracts handed out by Brian Wright proved to be overpays, for the most part (Keldon, Vassell, Zach Collins, etc). Someone tell him he doesn't HAVE to extend his own players...

You sign him for two years and see if he develops into someone more important to the team than one of Fox, Castle, or Harper. You cannot pay him a four year deal for what he is right now; it's suicide for this era of the aprons to have dead money invested in anyone when you're carrying three max contracts.

 

[Ariel]

You sign him for two years and see if he develops into someone more important to the team than one of Fox, Castle, or Harper. You cannot pay him a four year deal for what he is right now; it's suicide for this era of the aprons to have dead money invested in anyone when you're carrying three max contracts.

You don't HAVE to do that right now, you can simply wait until next year for that, do you foresee him blowing up a la Deni Avdija? If not, just wait. If he improves a lot, you can negotiate longer term, if not, you don't have a liability for 2 extra years.

 

[STAT88]

If Camara is 4/$82M or $20.5M per year which seems fair value, Sochan is theoretically probably around 4/$54M or about $13.5M per year. If you want to do one less year you could bump up to 3/$45M.

Camara’s shooting is easily the difference makers and worth the extra 50% as they are pretty even everywhere else.

Not sure I do either of those for Sochan. I could probably live with 3/$45M tho. If I’m the Spurs I’m letting him play out this final season and see how the shooting and health issues progress and let market forces determine his value.

 

[scott]

Then Sochan's price tag should be half that, TBH. Any more and I'm leading the Brian Wright lynching mob.

For real. Camara is so much more of a useful player than Sochan (much like Eason) that's hilarious to even mention them in the same conversation. The only thing Sochan has going for him is that he's young. So is my 10-year old daughter though, and she doesn't deserve an NBA contract either.

 

[Ariel]

If Camara is 4/$82M or $20.5M per year which seems fair value, Sochan is theoretically probably around 4/$54M or about $13.5M per year. If you want to do one less year you could bump up to 3/$45M.

Camara’s shooting is easily the difference makers and worth the extra 50% as they are pretty even everywhere else.

Not sure I do either of those for Sochan. I could probably live with 3/$45M tho. If I’m the Spurs I’m letting him play out this final season and see how the shooting and health issues progress and let market forces determine his value.

Sochan isn't 75% of Camara, not even 50%. If Toumani is worth 21 million AAV, Sochan is worth 10 (at most).

 

[Kick-Stand]

You don't HAVE to do that right now, you can simply wait until next year for that, do you foresee him blowing up a la Deni Avdija? If not, just wait. If he improves a lot, you can negotiate longer term, if not, you don't have a liability for 2 extra years.

EDIT: realized what I said doesn't make sense as they can't negotiate in the season for an extension AFAIK. So the two years would be a low risk extension they could offer now in the hopes he becomes somebody worth choosing over one of Fox, Castle, or Harper. Otherwise I'm giving him two months to see if I trade him or not. If he's really impressive two months in I might take the chance of needing to offer a four year deal to keep him by matching an RFA offer sheet. If not I'm regretfully pulling the plug and trying to flip him into short term veteran help.

 

[Ariel]

EDIT: realized what I said doesn't make sense as they can't negotiate in the season for an extension AFAIK. So the two years would be a low risk extension they could offer now in the hopes he becomes somebody worth choosing over one of Fox, Castle, or Harper. Otherwise I'm giving him two months to see if I trade him or not. If he's really impressive two months in I might take the chance of needing to offer a four year deal to keep him by matching an RFA offer sheet. If not I'm regretfully pulling the plug and trying to flip him into short term veteran help.

You have until the trade deadline to decide if you want to move him, if he doesn't improve you move him for whatever you can get, if he does you still have all the leverage in RFA (see Kuminga, Quentin Grimes, etc).

 

[Kick-Stand]

I really do hate the idea of trading Sochan for veteran role players because I think he has potential to be a good player, especially seeing how strong he has become defensively. But the aprons make it super dangerous to bet on whether he can develop the three point shot he absolutely needs to be a rotation player when they'll be paying three max contracts.

 

[Kick-Stand]

You have until the trade deadline to decide if you want to move him, if he doesn't improve you move him for whatever you can get, if he does you still have all the leverage in RFA (see Kuminga, Quentin Grimes, etc).

There's a lot of money out there for FA next summer unlike this one, which is why Kuminga got hosed. Plus the FA class is really weak next summer. I think he'll get a very significant offer sheet. The Lakers have a ton of capspace for example and between Doncic and Reaves being better shooters than any of the Spurs guards or forwards Sochan can probably be a much better fit there than here. Especially since they'll have the money to go get another shooter too.

 

[OK Computer]

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If I was a man that wasn’t getting extended, would I be attending volunteer events like this? This man is getting an extension…

 

[Shmurs]

Their managers, in conjunction with the team, point them to an event to go to. Then they go. He’s currently under contract with the spurs so he will continue to do spurs extracurriculars.

 

[Ariel]

There's a lot of money out there for FA next summer unlike this one, which is why Kuminga got hosed. Plus the FA class is really weak next summer. I think he'll get a very significant offer sheet. The Lakers have a ton of capspace for example and between Doncic and Reaves being better shooters than any of the Spurs guards or forwards Sochan can probably be a much better fit there than here. Especially since they'll have the money to go get another shooter too.

Sochan isn't getting a Camara type offer from any team with a non brain dead GM, what's the risk, he gets a MLE type offer next offseason? If he's worth it, you match. If not, you try a S&T. And if nothing works out, then sayonara, you weren't that valuable to begin with. There's more downside from extending, than from not doing so.

 

[Exstatic]

I’d rather slightly overpay for 4 years than grossly overpay for 3

But even at 4/54 I’d rather not do it at all

with our young core each coming due for extensions over the next 3 summers, the years are FAR more important than the money. 3/$60 wouldn’t even hurt our cap, and would be better than 4/$54M from a cap sheet perspective. I’m sitting on $3/$54M as what the sides will likely agree on.

 

[Neuromancer]

Waiting on the inevitable "Spurs resign Sochan 4 years/80 million" tweet

 

[Exstatic]

Waiting on the inevitable "Spurs resign Sochan 4 years/80 million" tweet

The
Meltdown
Would
Be
Epic.

 

[Kick-Stand]

The
Meltdown
Would
Be
Epic.

And wholly justified unless years 3 & 4 were unguaranteed

 

[ambchang]

Well, to put it in perspective we need to add that ALL of those players are PROVEN PLAYOFF PERFORMERS. Do we really think Jeremy would have played significant time on a contender as it is? How many minutes would he have gotten in Boston? Less than Kornet for sure. In fact, as it stands right now, I think pretty much all of the players you mention have a clearer path towards playoff minutes than Sochan. The reality is, Jeremy is going through what a lot of high picks regularly go through, they're given opportunities (minutes, touches) they didn't earn (or well above that), on the basis of upside. It's a long term investment, whose returns diminish as the rookie contract approaches its end and the data available tempers expectations.

To strip this issue to its core, I think it comes down to how you perceive Jeremy going forward. If you judge him on production, I don't think even 10 million a year is warranted, you can get similar (or better) role players who can stay on the floor in the playoffs for that much. He's a non shooter (bad and reluctant), not a good connector (you can see him freeze with the ball in his hands quite often), and his availability isn't what you'd like. On the other hand, he's still 22, a really good defender (I don't question this despite what others might say), and seems like a good locker room guy.

How likely is it Jeremy takes a big leap? How long would it take? How much would it cost the Spurs to keep investing in unearned playing time for him given the current context? Even if you will continue to allocate playing time for development purposes, is he your best bet or would Carter Bryant be a more sensible investment? My guess with the available data at this point is: 1) It is possible Jeremy achieves mediocre shooter status eventually, but not likely and not soon 2) It would come at the expense of the development of higher priority players who need spacing 3) Carter Bryant has a better chance of becoming the player we hoped Sochan could be.

Bottom line, I'd keep him around one more year to see how his development unfolds (so no salary dump or moving him unless he's valued as a positive), but no long term commitment either. This is probably the path that provides the least risk while keeping some upside.

I’m not sure if call obi toppin a proven playoff performer. He was roundly panned for his play during the playoffs.

Vanderbilt only had one real playoff run and he played 17 min a game.

Herb jones didn’t play that well in the 10 games he had in the playoffs.

Just because sochan played on the spurs that didn’t make the playoffs doesn’t make him unplayable. I mean, Vanderbilt is just as bad an offensive player and he played.

Mitch Robinson is an even worse offensive player and he actually was quite useful in the playoffs.

Unproven in the playoffs pretty much applied to every single spurs drafted players.

 

[JJSPUR]

4/82 for Camara sets the ceiling IMO. I doubt a deal gets done, but no way it's near $20M/yr. $12-15M/yr seems acceptable, but it hinges heavily on his ability to hit spot up 3s.

Twelve to fifteen million seems about right, its just the number of years or player/team options that will determine whether its a good or bad contract. We'll see soon enough.

 

[Seventyniner]

with our young core each coming due for extensions over the next 3 summers, the years are FAR more important than the money. 3/$60 wouldn’t even hurt our cap, and would be better than 4/$54M from a cap sheet perspective. I’m sitting on $3/$54M as what the sides will likely agree on.

I'm on the other side. If the yearly amount fits into another team's MLE, Sochan will be much easier to trade in the future should it come to that. 4/56 is more tradable than 3/54.

 

[pope]

Given the cap situation, it seems the number of years would be more important than the total cost?

 

[scott]

He’ll have S&T value as an RFA as well.

Of all the options available to the team, extending Sochan is the worst.