Player Sochan's Extension Watch

[LeBowen]

Tbh, the situation looks simple enough.
Bryant looks like he's got amazing 3-D upside, but he's obviously not ready yet.
That doesn't mean he can't get some minutes already.
He's maybe even the most athletic player on the team and he's already not afraid to take shots when he needs to.

Jeremy is surely a better player right now, but he's also a player that has shown very little growth over the past three years.
I don't think current version of Jeremy will be better than end of season version of Bryant.

I wouldn't even make an offer extension. The clock is ticking and it's definitely not in Jeremy's favor.
If Bryant overtakes him and is a more useful player by this time next year, I wouldn't offer Jeremy anything more than 32/4 or so.

 

[dn0774]

Also worth mentioning that even though Bryant has been up and down with the shot (mostly down) this preseason so far teams are staying attached to him at the 3 pt line. Of course that can change in the regular season as scouting reports are developed etc, but CB at least has a far more credible looking shooting stroke than Sochan and if he can manage to hover around 34% opposing teams will continue to stay attached.

I do want the team to give Sochan the opportunity to show whether his game has improved/evolved or not since last season, but with each passing day that he continues to be unavailable to play it seems more and more unlikely. It's one thing to sit a finished product (ie Luka) in preseason, Sochan is not that. Dude needs all the reps he can get and preseason is a great place to find out what works and what doesn't. Was the calf injury more serious than reported? How much work did he actually get to do this off season?

I actually have some complaints about Castle being sat as well. He was initially reported to be "fine" and now he is going to have missed 2.5 weeks (assuming he plays season opener) if he doesn't play in the 2 Pacer games this week. Harper showed more poise and lead guard processing last night than Castle did all last season.

All signs point to the first couple weeks of the regular season essentially being used as preseason 2.0 for a bunch of our lineup, just disappointing.

 

[LeBowen]

I do want the team to give Sochan the opportunity to show whether his game has improved/evolved or not since last season, but with each passing day that he continues to be unavailable to play it seems more and more unlikely. It's one thing to sit a finished product (ie Luka) in preseason, Sochan is not that. Dude needs all the reps he can get and preseason is a great place to find out what works and what doesn't. Was the calf injury more serious than reported? How much work did he actually get to do this off season?

Good point, the injury happened in early August and the story was that he'll sit out Eurobasket as a precaution.
It's been two months and he's still not playing, I think we have every right to be worried about it.

I actually have some complaints about Castle being sat as well. He was initially reported to be "fine" and now he is going to have missed 2.5 weeks (assuming he plays season opener) if he doesn't play in the 2 Pacer games this week. Harper showed more poise and lead guard processing last night than Castle did all last season.

I'm not that worried about Castle because I don't see him as a lead guard.
What we'll need the most from Castle this season is point of attack defense if Jeremy disappoints again.
And obviously for him to hit open shots he has to take.

 

[poopbox]

The question of whether or not CB has more to offer than Sochan on a given possession is answered.

But it’s really easy to get lost in a game and stay lost for rookies. You don’t want him to go to the dark side in the first quarter and then have 4 fouls and 6 turnovers before you cry uncle and have to yank him.

He’s a guy that needs NBA exposure in small doses at the moment.

With that said, it feels like he might be good enough to be your 11th/12th guy and it might be better to develop practicing with elite players than rounding out his processing in a less intense setting.

So basically a jeremy sochan game

 

[TBdog]

And what team would play any of these losers if their main goal was to win? You’re acting as if the Spurs have been good the past 7 seasons my friend. They have not been. These 3 players contribute nothing to winning. They haven’t proven they are winning players at all. And the main reason why Wemby isn’t a winner is bc every time he goes to the bench these fucking losers shit the bed.

I want you to show me the winning that Vassell, KJ, and Sochan bring to the table.

Every playoff team would have both. Like if the spurs said, Devin and KJ are on the block, you only need to match salary, then every playoff team would look into that.

 

[Ariel]

Good point, the injury happened in early August and the story was that he'll sit out Eurobasket as a precaution.
It's been two months and he's still not playing, I think we have every right to be worried about it.

There has been a trend of trying to play through calf injuries only to end up with a ruptured achilles (Haliburton, Tatum, etc). I wouldn't be surprised if the Spurs are acting extra cautious because of that.

 

[spurraider21]

Sochan is best as a 3 defensively but he basically plays the 5 offensively which is awkward. Bryant is potentially a much more natural 3, who like Sochan, can defend up or down one spot with good versatility, but can actually be a good enough offensive role player at the spot. He just needs to sharpen his decisions some, but i imagine 3 years in he’d be farther along than what Sochan is now.

I still think we need a longer term answer at the 4, but our ability to play the 2-big lineups could go a long way in mitigating that.

 

[OK Computer]

Sochan is best as a 3 defensively but he basically plays the 5 offensively which is awkward. Bryant is potentially a much more natural 3, who like Sochan, can defend up or down one spot with good versatility, but can actually be a good enough offensive role player at the spot. He just needs to sharpen his decisions some, but i imagine 3 years in he’d be farther along than what Sochan is now.

I still think we need a longer term answer at the 4, but our ability to play the 2-big lineups could go a long way in mitigating that.

Tbh I don’t know what a longer term answer at 4 even means with the current and future makeup of the roster. Whoever the 4 is will never need the ball in their hands, isn’t expected to score a lot on a nightly basis, isn’t expected to be a defensive menace. They just need to be good enough to hit corner 3’s, and not be a total liability on defense. In other words, just someone with more youth than Harrison Barnes and a little better on defense.

I honestly think making a trade package for a known commodity who’s paid over $20 mil a year might hurt us than help us. I think the team needs to be financially conscious in order to keep all their key players. Using our FRP to keep drafting more Carter Bryants until one rises to the top is in my opinion, the best strategy to find the top option at PF. Trading for Markannen or Brandon Miller (who will be expected to be paid) will handicap us too much.

 

[Ariel]

Tbh I don’t know what a longer term answer at 4 even means with the current and future makeup of the roster. Whoever the 4 is will never need the ball in their hands, isn’t expected to score a lot on a nightly basis, isn’t expected to be a defensive menace. They just need to be good enough to hit corner 3’s, and not be a total liability on defense. In other words, just someone with more youth than Harrison Barnes and a little better on defense.

I honestly think making a trade package for a known commodity who’s paid over $20 mil a year might hurt us than help us. I think the team needs to be financially conscious in order to keep all their key players. Using our FRP to keep drafting more Carter Bryants until one rises to the top is in my opinion, the best strategy to find the top option at PF. Trading for Markannen or Brandon Miller (who will be expected to be paid) will handicap us too much.

Which is exactly why I thought it would make sense for the Spurs to move up in the 2nd round for a Rasheer Fleming or Noa Penda. I think both were interesting prospects who could develop into that mold.

 

[KobesAchilles]

Every playoff team would have both. Like if the spurs said, Devin and KJ are on the block, you only need to match salary, then every playoff team would look into that.

Nice troll job. I admit it, you got me. Even if you did really believe in Devin and KJ (and I now realize you don’t) it’d be impossible for every playoff team to be able to trade for them both. No playoff team can afford to trade for a $20 million a year bench player never mind two of them.

 

[ambchang]

I think he’s a fine rebounder. He plays with a high motor and likes the contact.

His finishing around the rim is where you’re losing people. We all watch. He’s unguarded and spoonfed buckets. You can’t claim that as a talent for him. He clearly struggles around the rim when he’s guarded by anyone bigger, which happens pretty often because of the scheming against Wemby. But it often doesn’t matter since every team got the memo that it’s 4v5 half court D when he’s out there.

My bias is that I favor enjoyable sports entertainment.

It may be a shock to you, getting open to finish wide open shots around the rim is a skill.

 

[ambchang]

And what team would play any of these losers if their main goal was to win? You’re acting as if the Spurs have been good the past 7 seasons my friend. They have not been. These 3 players contribute nothing to winning. They haven’t proven they are winning players at all. And the main reason why Wemby isn’t a winner is bc every time he goes to the bench these fucking losers shit the bed.

I want you to show me the winning that Vassell, KJ, and Sochan bring to the table.

Which is exactly there was zero market for cam Thomas, herb jones, TMIII, well basically the entire NOP team and nets team, Markannen. Bunch of losers.

 

[TBdog]

Nice troll job. I admit it, you got me. Even if you did really believe in Devin and KJ (and I now realize you don’t) it’d be impossible for every playoff team to be able to trade for them both. No playoff team can afford to trade for a $20 million a year bench player never mind two of them.

I didn't mean two together, as in both would be traded.

 

[024]

Sochan lost his chance at a juicy extension when he got injured over the summer. He could have demonstrated he improved and gained a 3 pt shot during Eurobasket and the preseason. Instead he sits on the bench and posts short vids of him hitting 3-4 threes in a row.

The Spurs would be crazy to offer him a big extension now. Something more in the 10-12m/yr range is more feasible but Sochan will definitely want more. He'll have to prove himself during the regular season.

 

[KobesAchilles]

Which is exactly there was zero market for cam Thomas, herb jones, TMIII, well basically the entire NOP team and nets team, Markannen. Bunch of losers.

NOP made the playoffs more recently than the Spurs. I know you don’t follow other teams but before bashing them maybe you should look that up.

What is your opinion on the market for KJ? Is it particularly high? Would he be offered a max contract like Lauri? Is his market the same as Herb Jones and TM3? I’m just wondering what the point of your post was exactly? Other than to bash the Pels falsely.

 

[KobesAchilles]

I didn't mean two together, as in both would be traded.

Yeah whatever you say. Every playoff team ever is willing to offer a bench player $20 million dollars. Sure I can’t find an example of a $20 million dollar bench player on said playoff teams but you know every playoff team is interested in KJ coming off the bench bc you said so. Gotcha

 

[KobesAchilles]

Sochan lost his chance at a juicy extension when he got injured over the summer. He could have demonstrated he improved and gained a 3 pt shot during Eurobasket and the preseason. Instead he sits on the bench and posts short vids of him hitting 3-4 threes in a row.

The Spurs would be crazy to offer him a big extension now. Something more in the 10-12m/yr range is more feasible but Sochan will definitely want more. He'll have to prove himself during the regular season.

The thing is that if you literally look team by team, which sadly I did, you will find that bench players don’t get paid the type of money that posters are throwing around. Back up bigs get ranged from 6-12 million.

Last year no WC team had a bench player making as much money as we pay KJ. None. It’s also why we can’t bench Vassell. We would have to trade him. Sochan is a bench player. Financially speaking, he shouldn’t be getting a big contract if we are serious about making the playoffs. The only team I can find this year that has a bench player making (17 million) are the Grizzlies and Aldama.

 

[ambchang]

NOP made the playoffs more recently than the Spurs. I know you don’t follow other teams but before bashing them maybe you should look that up.

What is your opinion on the market for KJ? Is it particularly high? Would he be offered a max contract like Lauri? Is his market the same as Herb Jones and TM3? I’m just wondering what the point of your post was exactly? Other than to bash the Pels falsely.

Losing players. Wasn’t that your criteria? Didn’t realize it has to do with the magical 7 year cut off.

What? KJ Vassell and sochan haven’t even played for seven years? But they have to pay for the sins of the spurs sucking for seven years?

You didn’t know what my point was? Maybe read your own post. Which had nothing to do with these suddenly new criteria that you just made up. Some might even call it moving the goalpost.

 

[TBdog]

Yeah whatever you say. Every playoff team ever is willing to offer a bench player $20 million dollars. Sure I can’t find an example of a $20 million dollar bench player on said playoff teams but you know every playoff team is interested in KJ coming off the bench bc you said so. Gotcha

Oi, goal post mover, I never mentioned contract. The whole point of this debate is you believe CB was the better fit over KJ and Vassell now.

 

[KobesAchilles]

Oi, goal post mover, I never mentioned contract. The whole point of this debate is you believe CB was the better fit over KJ and Vassell now.

Buddy you literally said that every playoff team would trade for them if all they had to do was salary match.

And I don’t know if CB is better now. But I think he will be one by February if given minutes to develop into one. It’s like 2012 Spurs with Stephen Jackson. He was a better player than Danny Green and Kawhi but they eventually became the better fit as the year progressed.

 

[KobesAchilles]

Losing players. Wasn’t that your criteria? Didn’t realize it has to do with the magical 7 year cut off.

What? KJ Vassell and sochan haven’t even played for seven years? But they have to pay for the sins of the spurs sucking for seven years?

You didn’t know what my point was? Maybe read your own post. Which had nothing to do with these suddenly new criteria that you just made up. Some might even call it moving the goalpost.

My point is that KJ is a horrible contract for a bench player. No other playoff team in the West has a contract as bad as KJ. None. He’s also just a horrible player who plays no defense at all and isn’t great at offense either.

Then you have Vassell who is a chucker. Thats literally his whole game. He doesn’t create well for others, he doesn’t pay attention at all on defense, he makes some of the dumbest help defense moves I’ve ever seen, he doesn’t battle for boards, he doesn’t take charges, and he shoots the 3 at league average but since everyone else not named Barnes shoots it at below league average we have convinced ourselves that he is vital. He isn’t. You can find the same player archetype for much cheaper.

And don’t even get me started on Sochan. Dude has no idea how to play offense. None. Except for his occasional cuts to the basket. It’s like his only move. Does he have a floater? Nope. Does he have a hook shot? Nope. Does he have any touch around the rim when he can’t dunk the ball? Nope. Does he have a little 10-5 footer? Nope. Can he hit an open 3? 28 times he can. It’s a shame they only play 82 games a season and not 182. Maybe then he would make enough in the season to be a threat.

Sochan would be nice on the team for his value which is 10 million a year. And we play him his 20 minutesish going forward. Vassell would be nice off the bench too but unfortunately he’s getting paid $27 million a year which would be the worst bench contract in the West (behind only KJs).

Also if Heeb Jones and TM3 made the playoffs, that doesn’t make them losers. And I’m projecting that the Spurs miss the playoffs for 7 years (it’s only been 6). And the reason I’m projecting this to happen is due only to these 3 anchors on our team. We shall find out who is right. Me or you. But I like my odds.

Also by default, everyone here who doesn’t predict the Spurs to finish in the top 4 in the West agrees with me. Bc everyone here thinks Wemby as a top 5 player. Everyone here thinks Fox is an allstar level PG. Everyone here (with the exception of you) believes in Castle taking a leap next year. If you have a Top 5 player, an all star teammate and a solid 3rd option, there’s no excuse not to have homecourt advantage. It’s exactly what OKC has and they won the championship. So if you don’t believe we are top of the West contenders alongside OKC, where the only difference is the quality role players, it means you don’t really believe in the power of friendship.

 

[ambchang]

My point is that KJ is a horrible contract for a bench player. No other playoff team in the West has a contract as bad as KJ. None. He’s also just a horrible player who plays no defense at all and isn’t great at offense either.

Then you have Vassell who is a chucker. Thats literally his whole game. He doesn’t create well for others, he doesn’t pay attention at all on defense, he makes some of the dumbest help defense moves I’ve ever seen, he doesn’t battle for boards, he doesn’t take charges, and he shoots the 3 at league average but since everyone else not named Barnes shoots it at below league average we have convinced ourselves that he is vital. He isn’t. You can find the same player archetype for much cheaper.

And don’t even get me started on Sochan. Dude has no idea how to play offense. None. Except for his occasional cuts to the basket. It’s like his only move. Does he have a floater? Nope. Does he have a hook shot? Nope. Does he have any touch around the rim when he can’t dunk the ball? Nope. Does he have a little 10-5 footer? Nope. Can he hit an open 3? 28 times he can. It’s a shame they only play 82 games a season and not 182. Maybe then he would make enough in the season to be a threat.

Sochan would be nice on the team for his value which is 10 million a year. And we play him his 20 minutesish going forward. Vassell would be nice off the bench too but unfortunately he’s getting paid $27 million a year which would be the worst bench contract in the West (behind only KJs).

Also if Heeb Jones and TM3 made the playoffs, that doesn’t make them losers. And I’m projecting that the Spurs miss the playoffs for 7 years (it’s only been 6). And the reason I’m projecting this to happen is due only to these 3 anchors on our team. We shall find out who is right. Me or you. But I like my odds.

Also by default, everyone here who doesn’t predict the Spurs to finish in the top 4 in the West agrees with me. Bc everyone here thinks Wemby as a top 5 player. Everyone here thinks Fox is an allstar level PG. Everyone here (with the exception of you) believes in Castle taking a leap next year. If you have a Top 5 player, an all star teammate and a solid 3rd option, there’s no excuse not to have homecourt advantage. It’s exactly what OKC has and they won the championship. So if you don’t believe we are top of the West contenders alongside OKC, where the only difference is the quality role players, it means you don’t really believe in the power of friendship.

Nice that it was about a contract now but the entire post previously was about being losing players.

I don’t disagree the contracts are outsized for what they provide but that wasn’t what I was responding to.

 

[Shmurs]

A truth and reconciliation council will be needed after the amigos are gone.

 

[Exstatic]

Nice that it was about a contract now but the entire post previously was about being losing players.

I don’t disagree the contracts are outsized for what they provide but that wasn’t what I was responding to.

It’s quite possible to waste a ton of time responding to KA or Schmurs, and come away with nothing to show for it.

 

[LeBowen]

It’s quite possible to waste a ton of time responding to KA or Schmurs, and come away with nothing to show for it.

I disagree with his take that we'll miss the playoffs, but you can't say he's wrong when it comes to what we've seen from Keldon/Devin/Jeremy over these past years.
Numbers don't even matter when we played better without them in both 23-24 and 24-25 with inferior players like Wesley, Branham, Champ and Mamu getting their minutes.

They got the benefit of the doubt because Spurs were a dysfunctional, losing team over the past years, but this is their last chance.
I just hope Pop won't be able to influence Mitch and that Mitch will have the authority to bench and even DNP them when they're not doing what's required of them.

Fox/Harper/Castle guard rotation.
Champ/Barnes/Bryant/Olynyk wing rotation without friendship crew.

We most definitely don't need all three of them and I don't see how all three manage to stay on the roster long term.