Player The unfortunately low-ceilinged Shaolin monastery of Victor Wembanyama

[CrustyCoastBendFan]

That piece of shit bballbreakdown has been a thunder shill for their entire “ascendant” run. Can’t stand that bastard

this is hist most recent video

 

[SpursBrazil]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2026765461933769200

 

[Limguoguolo]

You are 100% correct about the US. There is a moral component Americans attach to wealth. That is, the way Americans view the rich versus the poor is through a moral lens. Rich people are admired and poor people are despised.

I can’t speak on how other countries view rich v. poor. Is it really that different in France?

Am I allowed another essay? Social scientists, dual nationals, YouTubers, and ordinary travelers seem to me to accurately reflect a very different conception of the relationship to money in the two countries. These are generalizations, trends that have historical and social logic, and exceptions do exist.

We tend to say that money is a Western concept (or focus of interest, value). I would say that it is much more central to Protestant and Anglo-Saxon cultures (I assume that Germans and Dutch people have the same perception, but I am less familiar with their mindset) than in predominantly Catholic cultures.

In Catholic countries, money is taboo, linked to the sin of greed. In France, the Church played a major role in society until the early 20th century (and even longer in rural areas). While the Enlightenment in Protestant Europe led to the establishment of liberal monarchies, in France, monarchical absolutism was the norm before the Revolution. In this context, society was governed by titles (honor) and inheritance (blood), not by the power of money. When the bourgeoisie took power in the 19th century, this mindset did not disappear (the Church and the monarchists did not vanish overnight).

The result in contemporary French society? Money is sometimes taboo, and perceptions of it are ambiguous: people seek it, but not ostentatiously and, above all, not exclusively. It is a means, not an end. The wealthy do not flaunt it. There are even often heated debates in France when it comes to determining who is “rich” and how much money it takes to be considered “rich,” as it is sometimes perceived as... an insult. There is a kind of mutual quest to exonerate oneself from being rich or too rich. Typically, a wealthy person will prefer to describe themselves as “middle class.” The rich do not seek to be exposed or identified as such. (Liberty), Equality, Fraternity. Social peace is the (illusory) perception that everyone is equal, that everyone is the same. Of course, the ultra-rich and the nouveau riche are exceptions to this mindset. If Americans are often perceived as nouveau riche (a term that has remained in the Anglo-Saxon vocabulary), it is because for a long time in literature and cinema, for example, the typical image of a nouveau riche was that of a vulgar American visiting France with his ignorance and ostentation. It is a well-known caricature (at least, it used to be).

A wealthy person in France will want to distinguish themselves from the “nouveau riche” through their sophisticated manners, culture, and tastes. This is why debates, dinners in town, and social gatherings have been so popular in France for centuries. It is literally French savoir-vivre. The capital of “rich” French people is supposed to lie in this ‘education’ and “sophistication.” In France, people don't flaunt their wealth, they flaunt their culture. Sometimes you just have to listen to Victor or Boris Diaw. Some French players grew up in poor neighborhoods: they are more likely to adopt the behavior of the nouveau riche. Boris and Victor are petit bourgeois (the soft middle class). They are more likely to display their passions than their wealth (photography, drawing, literature, cinema, interest in different cultures around the world, players who like to see themselves as intellectuals, etc.).

The norm among the wealthy is discretion. Not showing off your money is a true art of living. Not saying how much you earn. Not showing interest in money, etc. All of this characterizes the French spirit. Wealth must be “taken for granted,” not displayed for the world to see.

In the United States, ostentation is the norm. Consumption is a way of life. Americans even have credit cards and are rated according to their ability to take on debt. This would be ridiculous in France (we take out loans to buy a house or a car, for example, but for everything else, we don't live on credit, we save; there is no culture of debt; on the contrary, debt is seen as a problem).

This partly explains why Americans are very surprised when they go to french stores or restaurants, for example. They have a culture of consumption: they are customers. But that's not how it works in France. Employees must be respected and are equal to the “visitors” who come to buy something (or discover something). Shops are there to serve these customers, but if they are not respected, they are shown the door or given a hard time. If you show off your money in France as an American, you will be despised or mocked in exactly the same way as the caricatured American nouveau riche were despised or mocked in the 19th century.

In the US, wealth is seen as a personal achievement, proof of your hard work and talent.

The French fought against privilege in 1789. They do not appreciate it when one social class still enjoys privilege. Money in the US = merit and hard work. Money in France = privilege and injustice.

When it comes to take 5 weeks vacation, Americans tend to say that the French are lazy and that those who really work pay for those who twiddle their thumbs. In France, taking vacations, resting, taking care of yourself and your loved ones, discovering new things, traveling, and spending your money for interesting stuff are seen as positive values. A worker who works hard without enjoying themselves or taking advantage of it will be perceived as an idiot or as exploited. Few people in France believe that money leads to wealth. The most widespread idea is that money is inherited and the result of privilege and injustice.

There is one nuance, however. With the French fascination with the American way of life since 1945, this mindset has slowly but surely taken hold. Corporate culture has developed, as has the cult of success. This is truly poisonous (at least, that is how it is often perceived, because it disrupts traditional French society). And this has become more pronounced since the presidencies of Sarkozy and Macron, two presidents perceived as favoring the rich and espousing values that are more American than truly French.

(Sorry, cultural differences are one of my hobbies. Thanks for reading. Now you can laugh.)

(Sorry for going off topic, but since Victor is French and clearly embodies this spirit, which doesn't seem to be fully understood, it's worth explaining. You're free to think that all these facts, which can easily be verified via Google searches, are nonsense.)

 

[spurraider21]

 

[CrustyCoastBendFan]

Seriously, if these two want to seriously debate this nonsense, DMs are open. Are we really gonna let this thread devolve into the political forum of the former message board or the former former message board?

 

[scott]

Let’s stay on topic please

Maybe there is some confusion, but when you see a post like the one I’ve quoted - it doesn’t mean “please stay on topic but only after you’ve had a chance to dust off some high school essay and get your last word in”

Hope this clarifies some things and we can move on.