Player The unfortunately low-ceilinged Shaolin monastery of Victor Wembanyama

[Manu20]

The crappy games are the ones where you learn. Sometimes I see him dribble into the double team or his team mates freeze as if they've never seen a double team. Quick decisions and ball movement will help and Wemby needs to learn how to handle it for us to be a contender. It may take awhile to get there. When Wemby turns his back to the basket is when the doubles are really effective. TD struggled at times with doubles, too.

Can you imagine watching tape of that game and breaking down the mistakes with coaches and teammates in the room? That sounds painfully humbling to me.

Yeah I remember TD struggle with double teams early in his career, even on his MVP years. Wemby just needs repetition and experience on how to handle teams. I think with having Fox back in the lineup and Castle continued growth it will limit the effectiveness and willingness of opposing teams sending double or even triple teams at Wemby.

 

[PanameSpur]

Obviously teams are planning against Victor and double teams is the way, we need to trade for shooting asap

And/or Bigs or tall in/out forwards

It's not just the shooting, it's the combination of the only 2 options to mitigate opp's game plan vs Wemby. It's insane not to have anticipated that from the Spurs and another sign of the incompetency of the personel in place.

I'm genuinely worried it could become a huge issue until the FO makes a move (if they even intend to smh)

It can become a make it or break it with Vic

 

[brazil]

I don’t understand this post. You skipped like three players who score away from the basket (Vassell, Barnes, Champagnie) and included Sochan who hasn’t played yet. KJ is shooting 46% from 3 so far. When you only list the players with the same trait, of course it’s going to look like the whole team doesn’t score from outside.

Well I'm sorry then because I already discussed the topic already.

My point is as of today we have some balance with minutes for Vassell, Barnes and Champ and I'm saying it even after Suns losses. My point is when Sochan and Fox are back what is going to happen to the minutes of our 3 guys who score away from the basket ? I'm saying we have too many players with this trait and not enough outside shooters... it is true today, it will be true tomorrow and will be true in POs even more so if we don't adress it asap. unless we all want see Victor shooting 10 FG from 3s like last year

 

[RC_Drunkford]

it's amazing to see that people think the issue is lack of shooting when it's actually Wemby trying to make the right reads and getting pushed off his spots. Dude literally got pushed from the elbow to the 3-point line. You don't start a post up at the 3-point line. He has to understand when and where to pass the ball out of double teams. He made some good reads, but a lot of times missed the right pass. He's guessing way too long when he's in the post.

Keldon 46.7 %
Barnes 39.3 %
Harper 35.7%
Vassell 35.4
Castle 34.6 %

That might not be elite, but it's good enough. McLaughlin is a career 37% 3-point shooter and Champagnie shot the same last season. That's enough shooting. The problem was they had to take contested shots, cause we somehow weren't able to generate wide open ones off a double team.

 

[sKiN20]

it's amazing to see that people think the issue is lack of shooting when it's actually Wemby trying to make the right reads and getting pushed off his spots. Dude literally got pushed from the elbow to the 3-point line. You don't start a post up at the 3-point line. He has to understand when and where to pass the ball out of double teams. He made some good reads, but a lot of times missed the right pass. He's guessing way too long when he's in the post.

Keldon 46.7 %
Barnes 39.3 %
Harper 35.7%
Vassell 35.4
Castle 34.6 %

That might not be elite, but it's good enough. McLaughlin is a career 37% 3-point shooter and Champagnie shot the same last season. That's enough shooting. The problem was they had to take contested shots, cause we somehow weren't able to generate wide open ones off a double team.

People here turned into a blind hun and dont want to blame wemby on his obvious mistakes and softness.

 

[RC_Drunkford]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1985536908617773210

 

[dn0774]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1985536908617773210

Watched the first handful, how do you not just send Wemby to the rim when 6'3" Jordan Goodwin or 6'4" Grayson Allen get switched onto him by themselves? That is the easiest pass in the history of passes.

 

[Shmurs]

Watched the first handful, how do you not just send Wemby to the rim when 6'3" Jordan Goodwin or 6'4" Grayson Allen get switched onto him by themselves? That is the easiest pass in the history of passes.

I saw them look Wemby off when he was under the rim with Booker on him and no one else in the same zip code. This team was completely retarded in ways that still aren’t making sense unless they honestly went out to party for castle’s birthday and have major seasonal affectedness disorder

 

[benefactor]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1985536908617773210

We need Fox tbh

 

[Shmurs]

it's amazing to see that people think the issue is lack of shooting when it's actually Wemby trying to make the right reads and getting pushed off his spots. Dude literally got pushed from the elbow to the 3-point line. You don't start a post up at the 3-point line. He has to understand when and where to pass the ball out of double teams. He made some good reads, but a lot of times missed the right pass. He's guessing way too long when he's in the post.

Keldon 46.7 %
Barnes 39.3 %
Harper 35.7%
Vassell 35.4
Castle 34.6 %

That might not be elite, but it's good enough. McLaughlin is a career 37% 3-point shooter and Champagnie shot the same last season. That's enough shooting. The problem was they had to take contested shots, cause we somehow weren't able to generate wide open ones off a double team.

It’s amazing to me that people think Keldon is getting guarded on any of those 3’s. Or Castle. Or Harper. NBA players should hit those numbers when they’re wide open. Even bad ones.

The percentages don’t mean anything. The defense worrying about the person shooting means everything. Keldon might get his reputation up at some point this year but it will take several weeks of prolonged success for teams to start caring about him shooting. Jeremy will take a full calendar year to get that respect.

That’s the shitty thing - spacing is not coming no matter how much these guys improve. Which is why sometimes you need to just pay for Durant and his auto-spacing.

 

[ambchang]

There are multiple issues with the spurs in those instances, from what I saw (didn’t watch the suns game yet, thank God):
1) wemby’s post position is too high. He’s up at the elbow, and it’s about a step away for the suns to double or even triple him.
2) nobody can throw an entry pass. Rather amusing
3) nobody was running or cutting. There were no off ball movement, no off ball screens, there were 9 players on the court just looking at wemby.

I thought the team did much better the other four games (haven’t watched the heat game yet, either). Part maybe prep by the suns, part maybe that the suns have long athletic defenders to cut off passing lanes (the rockets would have a field day is that’s the case), but mostly is that we didn’t do much to counter. Wemby was way too far away from the basket, and if he was there better be players cutting in for dunks and layups.

 

[brazil]

People here turned into a blind hun and dont want to blame wemby on his obvious mistakes and softness.

Both are not mutually exclusive, Victor had a bad game.. no sugar coating here but lack of shooting, incapacity to make a proper entry pass... is also a thing

 

[BankShot21]

Needs to watch some clips of TD and the way he passes out of the double, triple and quadruple teams that he's gonna get a lot of. Patience and making the right play at the right time. Something he needs to work on. Keep his arms high when deciding, nobody can reach up there. He'll be right plus without Fox and Harper, our 2 best true PG's it's always gonna be a bit more difficult.

 

[OK Computer]

It’s quite the take to say Keldon isn’t being guarded on any three. Why is it difficult for some to make a point without heavily exaggerating - or worse, making things up?

 

[OK Computer]

There are multiple issues with the spurs in those instances, from what I saw (didn’t watch the suns game yet, thank God):
1) wemby’s post position is too high. He’s up at the elbow, and it’s about a step away for the suns to double or even triple him.
2) nobody can throw an entry pass. Rather amusing
3) nobody was running or cutting. There were no off ball movement, no off ball screens, there were 9 players on the court just looking at wemby.

I thought the team did much better the other four games (haven’t watched the heat game yet, either). Part maybe prep by the suns, part maybe that the suns have long athletic defenders to cut off passing lanes (the rockets would have a field day is that’s the case), but mostly is that we didn’t do much to counter. Wemby was way too far away from the basket, and if he was there better be players cutting in for dunks and layups.

This guy watches games

 

[ambchang]

It’s quite the take to say Keldon isn’t being guarded on any three. Why is it difficult for some to make a point without heavily exaggerating - or worse, making things up?

Because some people are player fans, not team fans. The downside of having a generational talent like Wemby is that we just attract a lot of these fans. Some even flat out expressed, multiple times, that the team is making Wemby look bad as if that is something we should be worried about. The Spurs losing to the Suns by 12 points wasn't the issue, Wemby looking bad because he only scored 9 points was, as that will impact his MVP chances and future legacy. It's almost laughably as a) I am a Spurs fan and I am not overly concerned about Wemby having a bad game here and there, as long as he improves over time (which I definitely thinks he will as he clearly has the mentality for it), and b) MVPs and all time greats have bad games.

It reminds me of those Kobestans, don't give a crap about the team, they would ignore the fact that Kobe essentially destroyed the Lakers since 2014, for a solid 6 or 7 years, but as long as Kobe got his, it's all cool.

 

[Itzsoweezee]

Watched the first handful, how do you not just send Wemby to the rim when 6'3" Jordan Goodwin or 6'4" Grayson Allen get switched onto him by themselves? That is the easiest pass in the history of passes.

Spurs guards weren’t even trying to throw it into the paint to him in the first half. Beyond frustrating to watch

 

[Shmurs]

Any thoughts as to why he stopped putting his shoulders down and driving as the initiator? Worked great in the preseason. Worked great against Dallas. It really gets the defense unglued. It’s why Shai is MVP. Maybe he should try it again

 

[TDomination]

TD became the master of passing out of the double teams, but it did take a bit. Good post position, and good shooters and having cutters will help exponentially. Having fox back will do wonders for Wemby. Fox should be able to take advantage

 

[Seventyniner]

TD became the master of passing out of the double teams, but it did take a bit. Good post position, and good shooters and having cutters will help exponentially. Having fox back will do wonders for Wemby. Fox should be able to take advantage

Wemby will learn that skill too. He's still just 21.

 

[PanameSpur]

Any thoughts as to why he stopped putting his shoulders down and driving as the initiator? Worked great in the preseason. Worked great against Dallas. It really gets the defense unglued. It’s why Shai is MVP. Maybe he should try it again

It looks like the offensive calls had an effect on his aggressiveness.

Just watched Windhorst pop, and they pointed that his early foul trouble seemed to have an effect on his game.

Another point he needs to grow on, as well as selling fouls, communicating with refs

AND SETTING HIMSELF UP FOR POST UP MUCH CLOSER TO THE RIM FFS

 

[PanameSpur]

TD became the master of passing out of the double teams, but it did take a bit. Good post position, and good shooters and having cutters will help exponentially. Having fox back will do wonders for Wemby. Fox should be able to take advantage

I think it's not fair to compare TD and Wemby

TD started his career next to a HOFer and savvy vets + a future HOFer coach who was fully dedicated to make him succeed.

Wemby had to start with one of the worst rosters in NBA history that barely got better 3 years later and a rookie coach making rookie mistakes on a regular basis.

Just imagine if Wemby started next to the admiral and all the vets...

 

[scott]

It’s quite the take to say Keldon isn’t being guarded on any three. Why is it difficult for some to make a point without heavily exaggerating - or worse, making things up?

Because some people are player fans, not team fans. The downside of having a generational talent like Wemby is that we just attract a lot of these fans. Some even flat out expressed, multiple times, that the team is making Wemby look bad as if that is something we should be worried about. The Spurs losing to the Suns by 12 points wasn't the issue, Wemby looking bad because he only scored 9 points was, as that will impact his MVP chances and future legacy. It's almost laughably as a) I am a Spurs fan and I am not overly concerned about Wemby having a bad game here and there, as long as he improves over time (which I definitely thinks he will as he clearly has the mentality for it), and b) MVPs and all time greats have bad games.

It reminds me of those Kobestans, don't give a crap about the team, they would ignore the fact that Kobe essentially destroyed the Lakers since 2014, for a solid 6 or 7 years, but as long as Kobe got his, it's all cool.

The claim that Keldon isn't being guarded on any three seemed dubious to me on the surface... so I decided to look it up, and sure enough all of Keldon's 3PAs this season have come when he's been open, kind of surprised me.

He's 2/4 this season with the nearest defender within 4 to 6 feet (what NBA.com calls "Open") and he's 5/11 with the nearest defender 6+ feet away (what NBA.com calls "Wide Open). He's not taken a single 3PA in "Very Tight" (closest defender within 0-2 feet) or "Tight" (2-4 feet) this season.

By comparison, almost all of his 2PAs have come in Very Tight (4/6) or Tight (17/26) conditions. Only 2 2PAs (he's made both) in Open or Wide Open conditions.

Not mad about this though, Keldon is taking the shots he's supposed to take, and he's taking them quickly and decisively. 14 of his 15 3PA have come within 2 seconds of getting the ball, the other one was within 2-6 seconds (and he made it).

I like Keldon's game this season. I don't want him taking closely guarded 3s. My only complaint about his game this season is it is still a little tunnel visioned. He's better than only Bismack in AST% and AST/100. He is actually making over 1 pass/minute though, so he's not completely Black Hole Keldon.

 

[OK Computer]

The claim that Keldon isn't being guarded on any three seemed dubious to me on the surface... so I decided to look it up, and sure enough all of Keldon's 3PAs this season have come when he's been open, kind of surprised me.

He's 2/4 this season with the nearest defender within 4 to 6 feet (what NBA.com calls "Open") and he's 5/11 with the nearest defender 6+ feet away (what NBA.com calls "Wide Open). He's not taken a single 3PA in "Very Tight" (closest defender within 0-2 feet) or "Tight" (2-4 feet) this season.

By comparison, almost all of his 2PAs have come in Very Tight (4/6) or Tight (17/26) conditions. Only 2 2PAs (he's made both) in Open or Wide Open conditions.

Not made about this, Keldon is taking the shots he's supposed to take, and he's taking them quickly and decisively. 14 of his 15 3PA have come within 2 seconds of getting the ball, the other one was within 2-6 seconds (and he made it).

Yeah, because as we’ve seen: when the defender is close, he drives to the basket (or makes a pass) and doesn’t try to shoot a contested shot. It’s a good sign he’s being smart about that, instead of going the Devin Vassell route. This stat doesn’t say he isn’t being guarded closely on 3’s, rather, it shows his decision making on the perimeter.

 

[scott]

Looking deeper at some advanced passing and assist stats: h(ttps://www.nba.com/stats/players/passing?PerMode=PerGame&TeamID=1610612759&dir=D&sort=PASSES_MADE)

I made a mental note recently that Wemby is getting robbed of assists by bricked shots... and sure enough, Wemby is sitting at 3.2 assists/game but his potential assists is sitting at 7.5/game.

Castle is getting robbed the most though... he's at 5.3 apg, but 11.5 potential apg.

Harper is also getting the short end of the stick, sitting at 3.8 apg but 7.8 potential apg.