But is he your personal GOAT? I don’t care one way or another. I’m just curious. I think Kareem has a tremendous case to be second over LeBron.
I have Jordan 1 and LeBron 2
i dont think kareem is in that conversation
the caveat is i barely saw the tail end of Jordan's bulls run and i never watched kareem live. im a fan of the sport and the history of it (same with the NFL), and so aside from just looking at stats, i have gone back and rewatched some of their full finals games, gotten a sense of team performance during non title years, etc. its obviously an incomplete picture
if you are just stacking trophies and accolades, yeah kareem has a GOAT argument. titles, MVPs, longevity, all star appearances, and a couple of finals MVPs. 11 all defense teams. and as a bruin alum, obviously am familiar with his college dominance leading to the temporary banning of the dunk lol
i think my case against kareem in the GOAT convo is that the early dominance he had in the 70s probably came at a weak point of NBA talent, after the wilt/russell days of the 60s, but before the magic/bird era and to an extent, pre-merger when a lot of high end talent was in the ABA. his last season in milwaukee, after oscar left, they missed the playoffs during a time where 10 of the 18 NBA teams qualified. he then joins the lakers and wins MVP in a year they miss the playoffs. i know its a team game, but stars have an inordinate impact in basketball, and somebody during his peak missing playoffs for 2 straight years in that era for 2 different teams is a stain. in his first 4 years with the lakers, during his prime (age 28-31), they made the conference finals once where they got swept by Walton and the Blazers
then magic joined the lakers, and while kareem was still very good and an all star level player, won 5 of his 6 titles along with magic, where magic was considered their best player for all except the first one (even though magic won finals MVP in 1980 and Kareem in 85). 4 titles while he was not the best player, and was still an all-star but not an MVP level force do not count as much for me in the GOAT convo.
i have both magic and bird ahead of kareem, because they imposed their wills on the league during their primes more than kareem did. if bird didnt hurt his back i think he'd be the clear #3 all time
i absolutely cant have lebron lower than 2. if he didnt melt down as bad as he did in 2011, i would have stronger considerations of putting him as a 1a/1b... and as much as it stinks to look at one playoff series over a 20+ year career, that was an egregiously poor performance that has to be factored in. but for more or less the entirety of lebron's prime, the rule was in lebron is on your team, you are making the finals. insane 2-way impact. a playoff ironman. won titles with 3 different teams where he was the best player. and unlike kareem/duncan's mid 30's when they were still all-nba types but not top 2-3 guys in the leauge, lebron at 35 was MVP runner up and final MVP winner in 2020. i value his longevity more than Kareem/Duncan's longevity because his was still at elite levels. end of lebron's prime was also fucked over by durant joining the warriors and breaking the league
