Player The unfortunately low-ceilinged Shaolin monastery of Victor Wembanyama

Kawhi kept leaking he was about to come back. One example that really sticks out was when Pop tried to rule him out for the season the day before a big ESPN game vs Golden State only for Kawhi's camp to tell ESPN he was making his return that night. And of course no he wasn't, he was hiding out from the team with Uncle Dennis in New York. I believe the Spurs medical staff over taking Kawhi's and Dennis' words as true, especially after all the illegal shit we have seen the two of them do since leaving San Antonio.
I remember that. He and his uncle kept doing a fucking scarf dance, all through the playoffs. He’s ready…oh no not quite. Maybe next game. A week after we were eliminated,they declared him 100%.
 
LeBron has delivered some of the best sports moments I have witnessed. Am I a huge fan? No. But it's really weird seeing grown ass men dissing his game and legacy the way they do. It feels like 30% of sports fans are 10 years old forever.
I don't know why people think I'm minimizing the contributions of players like Kobe and LeBron just because I say that they're not remotely as great as Jordan.

I didn't root for Jordan. I didn't love Jordan, but he is absolutely the greatest individual athlete I've ever seen in any sport ever. I watched it. I watched it fucking happen. I saw him do it to my teams. I saw him do it to hall of fame players that are admired and respected. He is by far and away the greatest player ever. LeBron doesn't come close. LeBron can play 50 more years and he won't come close. It's not disrespect of LeBron James to put him in his proper place.

Don't like grown ass men dissing him? Stop being a little fanboy trying to overrate him.
 
I don't know why people think I'm minimizing the contributions of players like Kobe and LeBron just because I say that they're not remotely as great as Jordan.

I didn't root for Jordan. I didn't love Jordan, but he is absolutely the greatest individual athlete I've ever seen in any sport ever. I watched it. I watched it fucking happen. I saw him do it to my teams. I saw him do it to hall of fame players that are admired and respected. He is by far and away the greatest player ever. LeBron doesn't come close. LeBron can play 50 more years and he won't come close. It's not disrespect of LeBron James to put him in his proper place.

Don't like grown ass men dissing him? Stop being a little fanboy trying to overrate him.
Jordan is my GOAT. *shrug*
 
The problem with anybody trying to overtake Michael Jordan for the GOAT status is that the man basically had a perfect career. Who the hell wins 3 straight NBA championships, retires, plays baseball, comes back and does it again? Shit is ridiculous.

And the Jordan brand is just so massive. The shoes, etc. It’s all ingrained in the culture.
 
The problem with anybody trying to overtake Michael Jordan for the GOAT status is that the man basically had a perfect career. Who the hell wins 3 straight NBA championships, retires, plays baseball, comes back and does it again? Shit is ridiculous.
If you ignore the first 6 years sure
 
I don't see a need to tear down LeBron in order to elevate Jordan or vice versa.

I wouldn't argue with someone who has LeBron as their GOAT because there isn't really a single "GOAT" definition everyone agrees on, and I think both have solid arguments for them.

But I also remember Jordan and what he did and the fear... the palpable fear of the man when he was at his peak (and even before.) He's my GOAT, still. But it's close. Kareem is my #3 for what it's worth, so I obviously value longevity, too. Jordan was just... next level super star. I'm not even sure it's possible to reach that kind of high again in today's world, whereas I do feel like with advancements in sports medicine, we may see some longevity merchants in the future who can duplicate what LeBron has done. That may be a shitty take, tho. Definitely a hot one.
 
I don't see a need to tear down LeBron in order to elevate Jordan or vice versa.

I wouldn't argue with someone who has LeBron as their GOAT because there isn't really a single "GOAT" definition everyone agrees on, and I think both have solid arguments for them.

But I also remember Jordan and what he did and the fear... the palpable fear of the man when he was at his peak (and even before.) He's my GOAT, still. But it's close. Kareem is my #3 for what it's worth, so I obviously value longevity, too. Jordan was just... next level super star. I'm not even sure it's possible to reach that kind of high again in today's world, whereas I do feel like with advancements in sports medicine, we may see some longevity merchants in the future who can duplicate what LeBron has done. That may be a shitty take, tho. Definitely a hot one.
There is/was a match to Jordan

but he was on another sport >>Bobby Fischer
 
He was obviously great but that wasn’t the goalpost
Well he wasn’t winning championships, but this is what he did in the first 6 seasons.

4 scoring titles
MVP and DPOTY in the same season
4 time 1st team all NBA.
1st team defense 3 times

He was the best player in the league.

I know it’s a tired narrative, constantly talking about how great he was. But it’s undeniable.
 
Well he wasn’t winning championships, but this is what he did in the first 6 seasons.

4 scoring titles
MVP and DPOTY in the same season
4 time 1st team all NBA.
1st team defense 3 times

He was the best player in the league.

I know it’s a tired narrative, constantly talking about how great he was. But it’s undeniable.
Just to reiterate, none of us were Bulls fans. I rooted for the Pistons over him. I rooted for the Sixers over him. I rooted for the Blazers over him. I rooted for the Celtics over him. I rooted for the Lakers over him. I rooted for the Suns over him. I never rooted for Jordan. I became a Spurs fan in 1990 and I was 100% Spurs from then on out. And I always rooted against Michael Jordan.

And he always beat everybody. Undeniable greatness.

EDIT: His first six years were a murderer's row of hall of fame teams in the east. He had to deal with the big three Boston Celtics, the bad boy Pistons, Barkley's Sixers. It was an absolute gauntlet in the East every single year. And he finally learned how to beat them. And as soon as he did, he didn't lose to any of them ever again. He evolved from the greatest individual player in the league to one of the greatest team players in the league, which is what made him really dangerous. A lot of players with a lot of talent don't ever learn that.
 
Another thing people don't realize is there used to be a TV station on cable called WGN, which was a Chicago independent station that carried the Bulls games. So you could watch regular season Bulls games all the time throughout Jordan's career. And he did amazing shit every night. He was absolute must-see TV if you were a basketball fan.

Also, when an old timer like me says that Victor is the closest thing to Jordan since Jordan, you should really understand how lucky you are to be a Spurs fan.
 
Jordan's career highlighted that even the goat needs teammates to win the whole thing. Wemby will eventually be the best player in the league but if he doesn't have 1-2 stars around him and a good supporting cast he won't win. The Spurs right now have a good team, there are holes (starting PF and 3rd center) but the stars might be aligning for them to win this year. I was the most afraid of Denver and Boston, the first one is out and the second one might as well. They can beat OKC, we'll see if the refs are giving the foul merchant his 25 FTs per game
 
It’s really hard to compare players across different eras not just because of training, rules, elements of the game changing and all the on court stuff, but also all the off court stuff like social media, popularity of the sport, and fanbase.

Then finally, GOAT discussions are basically like MVP of all time. It depends on definition.

Id say LeBron was more well rounded as a player, definitely better longevity (which counts), whereas Jordan was more dominant, had a much better appeal and absolutely revolutionized the game.

Hot take, if you want to talk winning though, Duncan should be right up there. He was the only superstar I can think of who was able to anchor teams that played totally different styles (99, 03, 05/07 and 14) were at least four different types of offensive and defensive teams, and yet Duncan was the defensive anchors of all of them, definitely the offensive anchor of 99, 03 and the 05/07 teams, and arguably the 14 team as well. Not saying getting players like Robinson, Manu, Parker or even Bowen were easy, but Duncan was th easiest superstar to build a contender around.

That said, and there’s a media narrative to it, Jordan and bird were the only two players where you can see the other team admitted defeat before the games/series were over, and in many cases before it began. I remembered mourning talking about not going to be swept by the bulls as if it was an accomplishment (they weren't, only lost 1-3), how Barkley said he will never say someone is better than him in basketball, but later admitted Jordan was the better player, how the Blazers basically gave up in 92, the fear Jordan put on the Cavs, the Heat, how even Magic and the Lakers just played worse and worse as the series went on. Even Isiah and the bad boys getting absolutely pummelled in 91 and swept by the Bulls, then refusing to shake their hands afterwards. Payton and the Sonics were the really the one that kept fighting and showed no fear at all, but then they can't overcome the JordanRefs.
 
Any of you guys want to do a podcast? We could do a thing where we did the equivalent of a Zoom meeting like this and talk about the Spurs and I have a feeling that our conversations would be better.
 
Well he wasn’t winning championships, but this is what he did in the first 6 seasons.

4 scoring titles
MVP and DPOTY in the same season
4 time 1st team all NBA.
1st team defense 3 times

He was the best player in the league.

I know it’s a tired narrative, constantly talking about how great he was. But it’s undeniable.
Who denies how great he was?
 
Any of you guys want to do a podcast? We could do a thing where we did the equivalent of a Zoom meeting like this and talk about the Spurs and I have a feeling that our conversations would be better.
I know @scott mentioned something like that in the past, unless I'm misremembering.
 
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