Player The Uncertainty Realm of the Improved Jumpshot of Jeremy Sochan

[couchman]

The real bummer is that’s PF is the one spot where we need help on this team. The opportunity is there

 

[RC_Drunkford]

teams that need defenders and are short on assets should be somewhat interested. Clippers, Lakers, Kings, Bucks for example.

 

[Shmurs]

I’m 100% pro not giving Jeremy a contract. Can we all say that we were hoping he would be a better than he was his rookie year. I don’t know about y’all, but I’m disappointed and there’s no reason to fucking disparage the dude. He is out of the rotation and the writing is on the wall. I feel sorry for the guy he’s lost his rotation. He didn’t get an extension. His NBA career has gone sideways. He’s still a Spur I think it behooves all of us for him in spot minutes to play well no?. Let’s have some class and know that he’s going to be gone next year.

nobody is laughing at him or reveling in his downfall. You really don’t need to be parasocial about this. He isn’t anyone’s friend or family here. He’s a person who chose to be a public figure in an industry where he is subject to a ton of scrutiny from every angle.

People who mock him or root for him to fail aren’t great. But I don’t see that here.

But also, this thread isn’t just about Jeremy. It’s about a lot of folks being gaslit for 3 years and need a little bit of an outlet to vent about it. It’s not a big deal. He isn’t reading this. And if he is…Jesus Christ man get off the internet.

 

[Kick-Stand]

We're not getting shit for him.

A fundamentally flawed player that fell out of rotation on an expiring contract?
He could go somewhere in exchange for another reclamation project, but we're not getting even a SRP for him.

Yeah Sochan's not gonna pull anything useful, especially on a $7 million contract for matching purposes.

 

[PanameSpur]

Some people wanted Scoot Henderson like seriously

Instead of Wemby??

I need names fr

 

[LeBowen]

I wouldn't say people wanted Scoot, it's just that some of us tried talking ourselves into thinking Scoot wouldn't have been a bad consolation prize.

 

[PanameSpur]

Serious question, what kind of numbers do we think Sochan would put in the G League? Would he "dominate" that league with the usual 10 points and 5 rebounds?

I would depend on his teammates and/or coach's willingness to make him shine.

He can't create his own shot or space the floor, he can only shine in P&R and offensive rebounding, but if he's not the main big (which he won't) he will not have as many opportunities as he used to when we were tanking and he was our main defensive force.

Long story short he would be exposed

 

[PanameSpur]

I’m 100% pro not giving Jeremy a contract. Can we all say that we were hoping he would be a better than he was his rookie year. I don’t know about y’all, but I’m disappointed and there’s no reason to fucking disparage the dude. He is out of the rotation and the writing is on the wall. I feel sorry for the guy he’s lost his rotation. He didn’t get an extension. His NBA career has gone sideways. He’s still a Spur I think it behooves all of us for him in spot minutes to play well no?. Let’s have some class and know that he’s going to be gone next year.

I'm going to be hated for that but I swear I say it with respect...

You and most of the observers shouldn't be disappointed because it implies you still haven't either accepted or understand that you were wrong all this time, and why.

Sochan has shown all this time who he was but for whatever reason people think people can change or refuse to see what people show them, the first red flag is his immaturity, it's SO un-Spurs like to start with, he has an overall low IQ that isn't hard to discern when you listen to him with so limited vocabulary and nuance or observe his attitudes, body language, reactions or progress (how many times can one do the same mistakes??) etc

On the basketball aspect, his fundamentals were so poor from the get-go that the most optimistic option was that he gets better at 1 or 2 ... but not all of them and there are a lot.

For all those "he was putting stats" arguments, most players with the proper playing time and usage would put decent stats, just imagine if David Jones-Garcia was playing +30min while having all the touches and shots he wants...

I can only interpret such reaction as part affection for the guy whose enthusiasm was/is refreshing and some sort of trust of the FO and their scouting.

I

 

[scott]

There are people who wanted to somehow make a trade to get Wemby and Scoot, but I can't remember a single person who wanted Scoot over Wemby, not even as a troll post.

 

[wemvp]

I’m 100% pro not giving Jeremy a contract. Can we all say that we were hoping he would be a better than he was his rookie year. I don’t know about y’all, but I’m disappointed and there’s no reason to fucking disparage the dude. He is out of the rotation and the writing is on the wall. I feel sorry for the guy he’s lost his rotation. He didn’t get an extension. His NBA career has gone sideways. He’s still a Spur I think it behooves all of us for him in spot minutes to play well no?. Let’s have some class and know that he’s going to be gone next year.

Name one person who wouldn't be happy if Sochan got some magical fairy dust and suddenly started playing like an all star tonight? No one wants him to fail.

But he's failing and magical fairy dust doesn't exist. He has no place on this roster anymore. No reason for him to be here.

 

[mo7888]

teams that need defenders and are short on assets should be somewhat interested. Clippers, Lakers, Kings, Bucks for example.

I've thought LA should try and get us to take Knecht for Sochan...let both teams try and rehab something out of each guy..

 

[Uriel]

To me, it feels like Jeremy hasn't really been given a chance this season to prove himself. He worked all summer on his game and his jump shot, but because he was injured at the start of the season, he was on the outside of the rotation looking in and hasn't really been given the chance to showcase his improvement.

It also hasn't helped him that the team has been on a tear and that there hasn't really been a reason to change things up.

 

[UbikRex]

I feel like he was given a chance early on when he came back but he passed up open looks and just looked hesitant out there on the offensive end

 

[PanameSpur]

I've thought LA should try and get us to take Knecht for Sochan...let both teams try and rehab something out of each guy..

Knecht can't defend, no lateral quickness and costs a lot more than the shots he makes

No point to replace a liability by another one

 

[thiste]

Instead of Wemby??

I need names fr

Oh man it's been long enough that I don't remember specific people, but I clearly remember on social media and on Spurstalk, they were not the majority but a decent number of people were saying Wemby's too much of a health risk, Scoot is the safe bet we should pick him instead.

I wouldn't say people wanted Scoot, it's just that some of us tried talking ourselves into thinking Scoot wouldn't have been a bad consolation prize.

There's a difference between consolation prize and picking him over Wemby. I understand the difference and I'm not talking about the former. Some people actively wanted Scoot over Wemby.

...But let's not derail the thread, this is about Jeremy not Scoot.

 

[KobesAchilles]

To me, it feels like Jeremy hasn't really been given a chance this season to prove himself. He worked all summer on his game and his jump shot, but because he was injured at the start of the season, he was on the outside of the rotation looking in and hasn't really been given the chance to showcase his improvement.

It also hasn't helped him that the team has been on a tear and that there hasn't really been a reason to change things up.

Except he didn’t actually do that in the offseason. People see the short videos of him shooting and assume he was working on it all summer. But the workouts he was posting wasn’t actually him working on his jump shot at all. It was a buncha instagram nonsense that is all flash and no substance.

The greatest shooters of all time talk about how they work on their jumpers and they all basically do the same workouts. It’s boring. It’s repetitive. It’s literally thousands of the same shot. There is no flash or sizzle about it. Look at the workouts Klay Thompson has put out. It’s pick a corner and shoot. Catch and then shoot. One dribble and then pull up and shoot. It’s the same motion and same movement every single time. You can just see the attention to detail with every single shot.

Then you look at Sochan and it’s sporadic. Different feet every time. Different arm angle every time. Different height on jump and landing spot. There’s nothing consistent about it. He doesn’t pay attention to detail. And then he posts the sizzle with him in resistance bands dribbling the ball up court and shooting pull up threes and him running and catching and doing turn around fade away threes. And it looks cool and it gets people hyped but it’s all zero help to him in the long run.

The bottom line is Sochan is too immature to actually pay attention to the little things, practice the boring things, and realize that every movement plays an integral role in shooting and to practice solely what you are going to use in the game.

 

[CGD]

It’s a shame he can’t displace Lunch Lady from the rotation.

I think Sochan needs to go the other way on offense: ditch the 3 development and work on more interior skills (baby hook, PnR fluency, rebounding positioning).

 

[spurraider21]

ha, I had to have someone explain that scene to me because I had no idea germans used a different 'three' with their fingers than humans. Er, I mean, Americans

It’s explained in the movie later

 

[Snake Eyes]

nobody is laughing at him or reveling in his downfall. You really don’t need to be parasocial about this. He isn’t anyone’s friend or family here. He’s a person who chose to be a public figure in an industry where he is subject to a ton of scrutiny from every angle.

People who mock him or root for him to fail aren’t great. But I don’t see that here.

But also, this thread isn’t just about Jeremy. It’s about a lot of folks being gaslit for 3 years and need a little bit of an outlet to vent about it. It’s not a big deal. He isn’t reading this. And if he is…Jesus Christ man get off the internet

Parasocial? Far from it. I’m just a Spurs fan. Been a fan since ‘84 so I’ve seen all of the good and all of the bad. Never been a bandwagon fan for all those shitty years. Draft picks from Alfredick Hughes, Samanic to Primo have been horrific. Gems like Leonard (ingenuine ass) to Parker and Ginobillliiii have won us championships. Sohan wasn’t horrific at one time. I was never the biggest Jeremy fan but I thought he might have a certain skillset to really help the team. He just didn’t develop as we thought he might.

To be honest, I think Pop screwed him playing him at the point. I think the majority were hoping he could be a threat from downtown, but he is not. Do not get me started about him getting into the lane with the ball. It’s like a deer in the headlights. I do think he can defend a star player and do a good job but his Offensive game is too big of a negative this year. Like I said he will be traded or not sign next year . I’m just not to win a throw him to the Lions dude for solid guys. Wherever he goes next, I am sure he will circle the Spurs game and have a career night Now, Kawhi Leonard, I take great joy ripping that asshole.

 

[spursistan]

I wouldn't say people wanted Scoot, it's just that some of us tried talking ourselves into thinking Scoot wouldn't have been a bad consolation prize.

It is wild how how the 2nd & 3rd pick of that draft ended-up being more injury-prone than Wemby ..DVT aside, half of Victor's total missed games are result of medical team being super cautious with him (got sat a month with an extremely low grade calf strain and other 4-5 B2B games after an ankle tweak his rookie season)

 

[RC_Drunkford]

It’s a shame he can’t displace Lunch Lady from the rotation.

I think Sochan needs to go the other way on offense: ditch the 3 development and work on more interior skills (baby hook, PnR fluency, rebounding positioning).

That‘s why Mitch played him as a smallball center and he sucked there too

 

[LeBowen]

To be honest, I think Pop screwed him playing him at the point.

That was three years ago.
There are no excuses for someone on NBA roster looking worse in every single aspect of their game in their fourth season.
Jeremy looks like a textbook example of someone who got into basketball just because they're tall. One of those guys that realized they can make a lot of money with their physical talents and without actually liking what they do.

No hard feelings, we tried to develop him in every possible role, but he's failed to make any progress for years. If there's a team interested in him, let him go.
If not, decline his option and let him go in the summer.

 

[Raven_]

It’s a shame he can’t displace Lunch Lady from the rotation.

I think Sochan needs to go the other way on offense: ditch the 3 development and work on more interior skills (baby hook, PnR fluency, rebounding positioning).

tbf if the desired role was to be an off ball sharpshooter, he never stood a chance

 

[spurraider21]

tbf if the desired role was to be an off ball sharpshooter, he never stood a chance

he needed to shoot enough to be guarded, but also be able to bring... something on offense other than converting spoonfed layups.

 

[ambchang]

It's harsh but it's not an absurd take considering he wouldn't be a 1RP if we did the draft again.

It's mostly bc of the new analytic driven generation that lacks real competent eyes.

D Queen is a perfect (opposite) example of a player undervalued by all but one FO bc the data aren't as flattering as Dumars's eyes told him.

My 1st impressions of Sochan were horrible but bc most Spurs fans were so excited about him I chose to wait and see what I was missing but in the end all of them came back to where I was, I've never seen a least skilled player getting so much playing time in +30 years of watching bb closely.

Sochan isn't a basketball player, he has no feel for the game, I'm not sure if he really likes basketball tbh, it's just a hustle for him to get a bag.

Wish him the best, nothing personal, just observations.

First, not being a 1RP and not being a draft pick at all are two different things.
Second, Sochan ranked by stats in his draft class, which I am fully aware you just randomly dismiss because apparently it is not as accurate as your eye test:
1) 12th in minutes played
2) 12th in pts scored
3) 6th in rebounds
4) 6th in assists
5) 15th in FG%
6) 39th in 3PG%
7) 33th in FT%
8) 11th in PPG
9) 8th in RPG
10) 7th in APG
11) 21in WS
12) 38 in WS/48

I didn't put in BPM and VORP because those numbers go into the negatives and benefits either players who play on good teams, or players in the negatives who just played less.

A player without feel to the game can still be a player. Westbrook never had feel and won MVP. JR Smith had a long career and even won a title as a starter. Darius Miles, Corey Magette, Kuminga, Lamelo Ball, Trae Young, the list just goes on and on. You act like all the NBA players who ever played are these basketball geniuses but reality is that plenty of them were just athletes who does dumb things on the court. You can say these players under achieve, but to say that they can't contribute and shouldn't be drafted is just hard to justify.

Sochan would be a perfect example to use to show the limits of metrics and data analysis in basketball.

It's always been just part of a larger picture to get the proper conclusions but it's used as THE only source of decision-making.

Sometimes, like in Sochan's case and others, it's a trap

And yet this season he sucked ass just so happened when those metrics and data analytics plummeted. Go figure.

BTW, it shouldn't be the only source of decision making, just that it is a big part.