Player The Uncertainty Realm of the Improved Jumpshot of Jeremy Sochan

[PanameSpur]

It's almost exhausting at this point.

YOU are the one making it exhausting, stop projecting.

I put an end to this convo in my previous post but can remind you the gist of it if you want...

YOU WERE WRONG ALL ALONG ABOUT SOCHAN

Cheers

 

[Seventyniner]

Things he did well last year and not this year were defence and rebounding (especially offensive), let's look at the numbers:


I don't have access to his CraftedNBA stats last year and I am not a member, but I recalled him being middle of the pack for offence and in the 70th percentile or so on defence. Now they are sitting at 44 and 42. So yes, they got worse.

That's what it boils down to. Sochan was better in year 3 than in years 1 and 2, but instead of progressing as I expected, he has regressed hard.

I was in favor of extending him, and that terrible take has aged just as badly. Good thing I'm not the GM!

 

[Itzsoweezee]

That's what it boils down to. Sochan was better in year 3 than in years 1 and 2, but instead of progressing as I expected, he has regressed hard.

I was in favor of extending him, and that terrible take has aged just as badly. Good thing I'm not the GM!

He was marginally less bad in year three because he was allowed to play center, the only position for which he possess the minimum skills to play on offense. it didn’t matter much because the spurs had no front court depth and pretty low stakes for the season. Now, Sochan has to try to fit in on a good team, doing things that good teams expect from their players, but he can’t because he’s not skilled enough. If he’s lucky, he’ll get traded to a bad team so he can pad his stats and secure a contract.

 

[ulosturedge]

In the NBA he is essentially a wing that can't shoot. He doesn't even have a midrange game, and playing Point Forward didn't even improve his dribbling skills. He got away with playing undersized Power Forward in College where everyone is smaller and slower relatively speaking.

He can't hide his weaknesses anymore. His defense on smaller players has regressed. Teams know to let him shoot. Down low he has no advantage.

Previous seasons Spurs had no depth and weren't really trying to win. So Sochan had plenty of minutes and no pressure to perform. Easy to stat pad in that scenario. Now he has a defined role and if he can't produce he is pretty much playing himself off of the Team.

What was he working on all offseason? His 3 point shot? That shot still looks god awful. Maybe he should have been working on a midrange game.

 

[ambchang]

YOU are the one making it exhausting, stop projecting.

I put an end to this convo in my previous post but can remind you the gist of it if you want...

YOU WERE WRONG ALL ALONG ABOUT SOCHAN

Cheers

You were putting an end to this convo? Like who are you? How? Stats don't back you up, actually, you brought nothing other than I said all along. You said all along everyone is trash. Tre Jones is doing well in Chicago, Keldon is doing well now, Vassell is doing less bad, you want to bring those up? In fact, you had been incredibly quiet on those fronts as in you have never said anything about it. What did you do? Did you "put an end to that convo" too?

I am not sure about all along. I stated his stats, which reflected his play. His play is terrible now, and it was reflected in the stats, so not sure how you can conclude with ALL CAPS THAT I WAS WRONG ALL ALONG, AS IF TYPING THINGS ALL CAPS MAKE YOU MORE RIGHT.

Again, if you want to bring receipts, bring some rationale. Throwing dozens off things out, then come collect when one of them turns out right and all the others didn't reeks of crap takes by a blind squirrel.

 

[Shmurs]

the people who have been correct about Sochan for 3 years now find it very humorous when the people with their heads buried in the sand want to call this a recent phenomenon.

He’s obviously been a dog shit player from day 1. A lot of people knew that with a high degree of certainty. If you needed to wait for the stats to tell the story that 2 eyes and 5-6 brain cells could also tell, it’s not the flex you think it is. Only a special kind of person would think their lack of intuition is somehow a W for them. But I’m glad you finally caught up. It’s easier when everyone agrees about obvious things.

 

[OK Computer]

the people who have been correct about Sochan for 3 years now find it very humorous when the people with their heads buried in the sand want to call this a recent phenomenon.

He’s obviously been a dog shit player from day 1. A lot of people knew that with a high degree of certainty. If you needed to wait for the stats to tell the story that 2 eyes and 5-6 brain cells could also tell, it’s not the flex you think it is. Only a special kind of person would think their lack of intuition is somehow a W for them. But I’m glad you finally caught up. It’s easier when everyone agrees about obvious things.

Hi Pauleta.

 

[KobesAchilles]

Seeing as I totally botched my prediction of how many games we win and our placement in the West, it’s nice to come to this thread and have some vindication. Sochan was the easiest call of all time and I’m glad that MATFO listened to reason rather than feelings. Personally I believe it’s the Wemby effect. Dude is totally placing pressure on these complacent fux

 

[PanameSpur]

Hi Pauleta.

You're bad at this

 

[Shmurs]

Hi Pauleta.

Hi. But also, no.

Goldsberry said Sochan has “looked great” in the discussion with Zach Lowe about the game from the other night. Which is just amusing. I’ll head out now.

 

[Knoxxx]

Sochan is a Spur and definitely an underdog. Of course we all want to see him succeed.

It has been shocking to see him remain so helpless on offense. Unless it’s a wide open dunk, anything can happen usually quite on the bad side. Put Olynk’s BBIQ into Sochan and he would be a legit rotation piece.

Otherwise, he remains a lost character from Oz that is really ‘Wicked” bad, not good, to watch.

 

[ambchang]

the people who have been correct about Sochan for 3 years now find it very humorous when the people with their heads buried in the sand want to call this a recent phenomenon.

He’s obviously been a dog shit player from day 1. A lot of people knew that with a high degree of certainty. If you needed to wait for the stats to tell the story that 2 eyes and 5-6 brain cells could also tell, it’s not the flex you think it is. Only a special kind of person would think their lack of intuition is somehow a W for them. But I’m glad you finally caught up. It’s easier when everyone agrees about obvious things.

Not gonna argue I got this one wrong but not sure how it was a flex. Sochan was not bad last year, saw him play extensively, many fixable issues that weren’t fixed, but he just got worse this year.

Absolutely disagree that he’s been dogshit since day one. He had promising moments in the past.

 

[spurraider21]

Not gonna argue I got this one wrong but not sure how it was a flex. Sochan was not bad last year, saw him play extensively, many fixable issues that weren’t fixed, but he just got worse this year.

Absolutely disagree that he’s been dogshit since day one. He had promising moments in the past.

theres been promise, but its hard to find players that have been given as many minutes as him and failed to flash promise. cody williams comes to mind but thats about it

 

[scott]

Hi. But also, no.

Goldsberry said Sochan has “looked great” in the discussion with Zach Lowe about the game from the other night. Which is just amusing. I’ll head out now.

I actually thought Kirk made a great comment during that exact segment when he said (I may be missing the exact phrasing): "Players have been demoted to a role more in line with their level of competence, which has made them look good"

That's an excellent point, and I think Kirk was more trying to say that since Sochan has a minimal role, he looks "great" - not that Sochan actually looked great (though I also think perhaps Kirk isn't watching every Spurs game super closely).

Anyway, I thought this was a fantastic way of summarizing things, and what I've been thinking. Someone like Keldon is thriving because he's finally been "demoted" to the role that best suits him. Vassell looks better than ever for the same reason. Sochan will look best when his role is spot minutes in games where we need an injection of energy in a short burst. Right now he's still getting more run than he deserves, because every time he plays himself out of the rotation, someone gets hurt and gives him a lifeline.

 

[scott]

Sochan is a Spur and definitely an underdog. Of course we all want to see him succeed.

It has been shocking to see him remain so helpless on offense. Unless it’s a wide open dunk, anything can happen usually quite on the bad side. Put Olynk’s BBIQ into Sochan and he would be a legit rotation piece.

Otherwise, he remains a lost character from Oz that is really ‘Wicked” bad, not good, to watch.

Wanted to quote this just to highlight this excellent point. Kelly and Sochan are like a yin-yang of PFs. Kelly, playing with a dad bod since he was 18, super smart, physically limited. Sochan, gifted with size and athleticism, but no processing power or skill. If you could combine them, you'd have a legit PF. Separate, they are but bit role players.

 

[ambchang]

theres been promise, but its hard to find players that have been given as many minutes as him and failed to flash promise. cody williams comes to mind but thats about it

I don’t recall Cody Williams being given as many chances tbh because sochan showed enough promise in a few things but none of them ever fully developed.

There was some promise of him being a good enough ball handling big for him to try a hand at that. Disastrous results. Then it was trying him at back up C because he could rebound, didn’t work out because he can’t protect the rim and is too small to be effective there full time. Now they are moving him back to his natural SF role (defensively) but he is completely useless on offense because he has to do way too much.

Keldon is doing what sochan was supposed to do, and korndog is doing what the the front office wanted sochan to do.

Now his bread and butter (offensive boards and perimeter defense) isn’t that good anymore he’s completely useless.

He’s not even setting good screens anymore or cutting to the basket.

 

[O_V]

He started off strong but he's full-on passing up open shots at this point. That pretty much renders him as a net negative. Yeah he hustles and gets rebounds and plays with energy. Gotta be able to confidently take those shots. I'd rather have CB and just let him take his lumps.

 

[Shmurs]

Seems pretty obvious that his entire career has been spent trying to have small bursts where he’s in his flow state and can make useful plays by zagging when other guys are zigging. Both on offense and defense that’s what he’s been. An unpredictable guy that can’t exist in a system but has had good and interesting moments.

People confused those good and interesting moments for some kind of reliable player who was doing things purposefully and was going to continue to grow. But he was just a guy guessing a bunch. If you operate that way you’re going to guess right sometimes but it’s not a style to base a career off of.

And now he’s not allowed to dick around the same way, and he doesn’t trust his body the same way. So then what is he? A guy who didn’t bother learning how to play basketball because he was bigger than everyone else in England and then fooled a front office into thinking he had any control over his game by being hidden on the bench in his year at Baylor. Never showed any skill but he was such a space cadet that he didn’t have any anxiety about it. Now he has anxiety.

 

[Shmurs]

I actually thought Kirk made a great comment during that exact segment when he said (I may be missing the exact phrasing): "Players have been demoted to a role more in line with their level of competence, which has made them look good"

That's an excellent point, and I think Kirk was more trying to say that since Sochan has a minimal role, he looks "great" - not that Sochan actually looked great (though I also think perhaps Kirk isn't watching every Spurs game super closely).

Anyway, I thought this was a fantastic way of summarizing things, and what I've been thinking. Someone like Keldon is thriving because he's finally been "demoted" to the role that best suits him. Vassell looks better than ever for the same reason. Sochan will look best when his role is spot minutes in games where we need an injection of energy in a short burst. Right now he's still getting more run than he deserves, because every time he plays himself out of the rotation, someone gets hurt and gives him a lifeline.

I agree 100% with YOUR point. But I think you give goldsberry too much credit. He’s like Howard Beck in that I don’t think he sits down and watches games. I think he has a bunch of relationships and stays generally aware of things but only learns enough to be able to write his next article. I don’t sense a deep curiosity from him, even though I think he used to operate that way. Now he spends more time on Warby Parker shopping for glasses than he does on Amazon watching games.

 

[spursparker9]

Clan saying Sochan is mistreated by coaching staff and not giving him consistent mins for him to get into a rhythm


- The real truth is that you can't play 4 on 5 on offence in 2025.
- Maybe you can get away with 4 on 5 on offence in 2005. E.g. Ben Wallace. But that non-existent player on offence must be an ELITE defensive player or shot blocker or rebounder (which Big Ben dominated in all 3 areas)
- Sochan is not ELITE is any of the defensive aspects (still do stupid fouls on 3 point shooter) nor shot blocker nor rebounder.
- Offensively, he can't shoot and can only contribute by fighting for Off Reb and clogging the paint. He might only be playable Offensively if there is a generational offensive player like "Luka" who can keep throwing lobs to him. But Sochan is not even considered a "High Flyer" and there is doubt on him catching lobs tbh. I guess he will probably mishandle the ball or get his shot blocked more than he can convert the lobs tbh.

He needs to go. tbh

 

[spursfanfromafar]

He may be useful in a lineup where guards are off ball shooters who depend upon constant movement and the bigs are like fulcrums doing the passing to them. Sochan for e.g. would be a better fit with the likes of Steph Curry. I wish we can get Moody in a trade with Sochan going to the Warriors.

 

[O_V]

If you're going to be that kind if player in that kind of lineup then you can never camp outside the arc on offense. Ever.

Sochan killed his career here when he started passing up threes again.

 

[RC_Drunkford]

He may be useful in a lineup where guards are off ball shooters who depend upon constant movement and the bigs are like fulcrums doing the passing to them. Sochan for e.g. would be a better fit with the likes of Steph Curry. I wish we can get Moody in a trade with Sochan going to the Warriors.

Sochan can only be somewhat effective if the roster is built around him. For example a Giannis roster with a stretch 5. Everybody can shoot and Sochan can play center on offense because he's only good at things that don't involve a basketball. With that being said, nobody builds their roster around a guy who's barely an NBA player. I'm quite sure he'll be playing in Europe soon.

 

[mikec]

Sochan can only be somewhat effective if the roster is built around him. For example a Giannis roster with a stretch 5. Everybody can shoot and Sochan can play center on offense because he's only good at things that don't involve a basketball. With that being said, nobody builds their roster around a guy who's barely an NBA player. I'm quite sure he'll be playing in Europe soon.

I was reading pounding the rock comments from Sochan supporters. When questioned about his fit on offense, it's "oh the spurs just need to surround him with 4 shooters and he'll thrive" Insane takes. Call me crazy but this is Wemby's team right?

 

[The Truth #6]

He deserves a limited role for good or bad. I'll be more concerned if he can't find a way into the four undersized power forwards and a point guard lineup, then that would really be bad for him.