Player The Uncertainty Realm of the Improved Jumpshot of Jeremy Sochan

[scott]

I'm by no means a Jeremy defender (side note, saw a hilarious reddit thread where several users rated him the Spurs 4th most talented player)... but to his credit, what you just described @Shmurs could be useful to a playoff team as someone who can absorb lots of regular season minutes to reduce the wear on your core playoff rotation.

That might be Jeremy's most valuable role... sounds like the kind of guy you pay the vet minimum or like $6mm/yr

 

[LeBowen]

I'm by no means a Jeremy defender (side note, saw a hilarious reddit thread where several users rated him the Spurs 4th most talented player)... but to his credit, what you just described @Shmurs could be useful to a playoff team as someone who can absorb lots of regular season minutes to reduce the wear on your core playoff rotation.

That might be Jeremy's most valuable role... sounds like the kind of guy you pay the vet minimum or like $6mm/yr

The issue is that we already have too many players that can get minutes, it's not like we'll be playing 8 man rotation so we need Jeremy.
Maybe the biggest issue is that is there even a point in having Jeremy as someone to soak minutes when we could give those minutes to Bryant and accelerate his development trajectory?

Imo, Jeremy should start the season with guaranteed ~15 minutes.
If there are no signs of jumpshot improvement, bench him and give those minutes to Bryant.
If Bryant isn't ready for the real thing, send him to Austin and give those minutes back to Jeremy.
But if Jeremy doesn't improve his shot and Bryant isn't a negative on the floor, there won't be any reason for Jeremy to have guaranteed minutes.

We also have Champ. Jeremy is obviously a way better defender and rebounder, but I'm not sure it's worth it since we desperately need shooting and Champ is our only bench wing with a reliable shot.
Unrelated to Jeremy, but if Devin doesn't show clear signs of improvement right away, I'd start Champ in his place, we need size.

 

[KobesAchilles]

What’s the argument for him as a rotation player, though? After watching the playoffs, where does he fit in on one of the contending teams?

No way he gets minutes on Indiana or OKC, obviously. Hartenstein was already slightly problematic and he’s 2x the player Jeremy is.

So then what…you think the wolves would say he’s the same caliber as NAW? No chance. Lakers would also take Vanderbilt because he’s going to give you better (which is a wild sentence).

The situation is that every playoff team wants more shooting AND every playoff team likes their own non-shooters better than would like Jeremy.

He’s just a perimeter iso guy that has the luxury of burning all his calories in D because he does f all on offense.

It’s why I would offer him a lower end contract of like 4 years 40 million. It’s better to make a bad franchise like the Wizards, Nets, or Jazz spend money on him on an overpay than it is for us to overpay him ourselves. We could always match if needed but let the market dictate his contract. Bc no contender would play him big minutes

 

[BacktoBasics]

The issue is that we already have too many players that can get minutes, it's not like we'll be playing 8 man rotation so we need Jeremy.
Maybe the biggest issue is that is there even a point in having Jeremy as someone to soak minutes when we could give those minutes to Bryant and accelerate his development trajectory?

Imo, Jeremy should start the season with guaranteed ~15 minutes.
If there are no signs of jumpshot improvement, bench him and give those minutes to Bryant.
If Bryant isn't ready for the real thing, send him to Austin and give those minutes back to Jeremy.
But if Jeremy doesn't improve his shot and Bryant isn't a negative on the floor, there won't be any reason for Jeremy to have guaranteed minutes.

We also have Champ. Jeremy is obviously a way better defender and rebounder, but I'm not sure it's worth it since we desperately need shooting and Champ is our only bench wing with a reliable shot.
Unrelated to Jeremy, but if Devin doesn't show clear signs of improvement right away, I'd start Champ in his place, we need size.

Bryant is a long ways away. Like two years. He’s a legitimate project.

 

[KobesAchilles]

Bryant is a long ways away. Like two years. He’s a legitimate project.

Is he though? I think the opposite. He’s probably 5 years away from being able to put the ball on the floor with consistency. But as far as what we need of him I don’t think it’s two years at all. I think this year he will do fine.

We don’t need his offense at all. The team averages 88 shots a game. Your figure 18 of them go to Wemby. Fox gets 15. Castle gets 12. Harper is our second pick so I think he will average 10 shots a game. Devin will also get 10 shots a game. So that leaves 23 shots for Barnes, Sochan, Bryant, and Olynik and Kornet. All Bryant is going to need to do is take at most 6 shots on offense and make half of them. (Also why I think one of Barnes, Vassell, or Sochan will be gone by trade deadline)

On defense he just has to be an energy bunny and help out on boards. This role is right up his wheelhouse since it’s essentially his role on Arizona. He will be ready for us by February once Barnes asks out

 

[Seventyniner]

If Bryant is already better than Sochan by midseason, that will be a great problem to have. I don't expect that to happen.

The Spurs have pivoted to win-now mode. Giving Bryant developmental minutes is important but not as important as putting the best lineups on the floor.

 

[LeBowen]

Is he though? I think the opposite. He’s probably 5 years away from being able to put the ball on the floor with consistency. But as far as what we need of him I don’t think it’s two years at all. I think this year he will do fine.

We don’t need his offense at all. The team averages 88 shots a game. Your figure 18 of them go to Wemby. Fox gets 15. Castle gets 12. Harper is our second pick so I think he will average 10 shots a game. Devin will also get 10 shots a game. So that leaves 23 shots for Barnes, Sochan, Bryant, and Olynik and Kornet. All Bryant is going to need to do is take at most 6 shots on offense and make half of them. (Also why I think one of Barnes, Vassell, or Sochan will be gone by trade deadline)

On defense he just has to be an energy bunny and help out on boards. This role is right up his wheelhouse since it’s essentially his role on Arizona. He will be ready for us by February once Barnes asks out

Couldn't have said it better.

The question will be can he be at least a neutral defender right away? If he can, he needs to play because he surely can't be worse than Sochan on offense because he'll take the open shots when the ball gets to him and he can be as big of a menace on the boards as Jeremy due to his athleticism.
As you said with shot distribution, I don't care about Jeremy's 11ppg when those are charity points he gets because he's always the least threatening player on the floor. I'd rather have more space for Fox/Wemby with another shooter in the corner even if that shooter doesn't take enough shots. Being a deterrence is enough.

 

[The Truth #6]

The normally slow moving Spurs, arguably, fast tracked the development of Sochan. Starting him at point guard was a Hail Mary that I believe was because they had too much confidence in him, especially from coach pop when they saw him, I don't know, not play like a pussy, and be okay shooting free throws one-handed or something.

I still believe the whole front office was drunk and or manic right after they drafted victor and they handed out two contracts that they immediately regretted, and then started Sochan at point guard. They got out of Zach, but Jesus, that Devin contract is a disaster, for morale if nothing else.

I don't see how starting Jeremy at point guard is tanking, but giving those contracts to Zach and Devin somehow are not.

Just saying...

 

[spurraider21]

What’s the argument for him as a rotation player, though? After watching the playoffs, where does he fit in on one of the contending teams?

No way he gets minutes on Indiana or OKC, obviously. Hartenstein was already slightly problematic and he’s 2x the player Jeremy is.

So then what…you think the wolves would say he’s the same caliber as NAW? No chance. Lakers would also take Vanderbilt because he’s going to give you better (which is a wild sentence).

The situation is that every playoff team wants more shooting AND every playoff team likes their own non-shooters better than would like Jeremy.

He’s just a perimeter iso guy that has the luxury of burning all his calories in D because he does f all on offense.

I don’t think he’s THAT far from someone like Toppin for Indiana

 

[Ariel]

To be fair, I do think Sochan can be a contributor in the right scheme, but Spurs can't afford to build their team around the limitations of a non-core player when they have 2 all stars and 2 high profile prospects to accommodate. Nowadays you can get away with non shooting centers or athletic freaks like Ausar Thompson who can be a vertical spacer and crash the boards like a madman, but given his role and team construct I think probably Sochan's future with the Spurs looks murky, barring some miraculous shooting development from either him or the rest of the core.

 

[Ariel]

We don’t need his offense at all. The team averages 88 shots a game. Your figure 18 of them go to Wemby. Fox gets 15. Castle gets 12. Harper is our second pick so I think he will average 10 shots a game. Devin will also get 10 shots a game. So that leaves 23 shots for Barnes, Sochan, Bryant, and Olynik and Kornet. All Bryant is going to need to do is take at most 6 shots on offense and make half of them. (Also why I think one of Barnes, Vassell, or Sochan will be gone by trade deadline)

Yeah we do, at least the threat of it... even if it's low volume. We can't play 4 on 5 on offense and expect to be a winning team in the playoffs. To be clear, more than the number of shots he takes (6 would be fine) it's about the kind of shots he is capable of making. If he can hit 36% on 3s and get some points off of offensive rebounds, that's all he needs.

 

[LeBowen]

Yeah we do, at least the threat of it... even if it's low volume. We can't play 4 on 5 on offense and expect to be a winning team in the playoffs.

We can play 4 on 5 on offense if Carter can fill the Bowen role.
A starter that's content with 6-8ppg, but will always be reliable from the corner and shoot close to 40%.
Dort averaged 8ppg in the playoffs.

 

[Ariel]

We can play 4 on 5 on offense if Carter can fill the Bowen role.
A starter that's content with 6-8ppg, but will always be reliable from the corner and shoot close to 40%.
Dort averaged 8ppg in the playoffs.

It wasn't 4 on 5 with Bowen though, he was at least good enough on corner 3s that he factored in, even if he played a very small role. That's a very good starting point. Dort role is also fine.

 

[Shmurs]

It makes no difference if he shoots 35% or 28%. Or gets 5ppg or 15. What makes a difference is that his defender gives a crap about where he is or what he’s doing. He could get rid of that hitch and come out on fire this season but nobody is going to guard him until January because his reputation is so rotten and it’s on every whiteboard in every locker room that you should never care about what this guy is doing and you should be guarding Vic instead.

 

[LeBowen]

It wasn't 4 on 5 with Bowen though, he was at least good enough on corner 3s that he factored in, even if he played a very small role. That's a very good starting point. Dort role is also fine.

That's what I'm assuming Bryant will be able to do by his third season, maybe even second.

 

[spurs10]

Anyone with any thoughts on his extension...or not?

 

[BacktoBasics]

Is he though? I think the opposite. He’s probably 5 years away from being able to put the ball on the floor with consistency. But as far as what we need of him I don’t think it’s two years at all. I think this year he will do fine.

We don’t need his offense at all. The team averages 88 shots a game. Your figure 18 of them go to Wemby. Fox gets 15. Castle gets 12. Harper is our second pick so I think he will average 10 shots a game. Devin will also get 10 shots a game. So that leaves 23 shots for Barnes, Sochan, Bryant, and Olynik and Kornet. All Bryant is going to need to do is take at most 6 shots on offense and make half of them. (Also why I think one of Barnes, Vassell, or Sochan will be gone by trade deadline)

On defense he just has to be an energy bunny and help out on boards. This role is right up his wheelhouse since it’s essentially his role on Arizona. He will be ready for us by February once Barnes asks out

That would be great. Unless there’s an injury or a failed season I don’t think we’ll see much of him. He’ll be down in the G getting plenty of playing time.

But I like your optimism.

 

[SpursBrazil]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1972065498826527197

 

[Shmurs]

i wasn’t too familiar with him after his rookie year. I came into this Wemby era with a pretty clean slate. This radicalized me instantly. 12 seconds into this video you see one of the dumbest trains of thought in league history. He is standing next to someone who is 7’6 and he thinks the lob is for him. He may not even know he’s standing next to someone 7’6 which is a different problem. But you just can’t be a pro and be this dumb. This was like, later that season, where Blake decided to eurostep Giannis instead of handing it to Vic for an easy dunk. What goes through these guys brains after arriving in this city.

Jeremy had another funny one against Charlotte that year when Vic has a wide open lane to do one of his best tomahawks. Awesome dunk. But you also see Jeremy jump up with him thinking he’s going to get a lob for some reason. And then there were the thousand times he misses Vic on wiiiiide open lobs and entry passes. He has zero processing skills, man.

 

[The Truth #6]

I think they wait it out as much as they can before extending. Use his injury as an excuse for more time, maybe. See how the season goes. That would be the Lonnie Walker route, right?

 

[spursparker9]

i wasn’t too familiar with him after his rookie year. I came into this Wemby era with a pretty clean slate. This radicalized me instantly. 12 seconds into this video you see one of the dumbest trains of thought in league history. He is standing next to someone who is 7’6 and he thinks the lob is for him. He may not even know he’s standing next to someone 7’6 which is a different problem. But you just can’t be a pro and be this dumb. This was like, later that season, where Blake decided to eurostep Giannis instead of handing it to Vic for an easy dunk. What goes through these guys brains after arriving in this city.

Jeremy had another funny one against Charlotte that year when Vic has a wide open lane to do one of his best tomahawks. Awesome dunk. But you also see Jeremy jump up with him thinking he’s going to get a lob for some reason. And then there were the thousand times he misses Vic on wiiiiide open lobs and entry passes. He has zero processing skills, man.

Sochan was thought to be like a Draymond lite version in his rookie year with his passing.

Guess it was a fluke or the 2nd year PG experiment ruined him

 

[Bruno]

Jimmy Baron isn't Spurs' shooting coach anymore. He is now an assistant coach/player development. AFAIK, Spurs haven't replaced him so far. More generally, I think it's debatable what is best for a player: working with his team's shooting coach or a shooting coach outside of the team. It will be interesting to see if Spurs hire a new shooting coach or not.

Regarding Sochan, I think it will be as simple as if he can't shoot, he can't play. Non shooters can work in the NBA but not in the setup Spurs will be putting him. Spurs need forwards who open the paint for their highly talented trio of guards. Wright shouldn't give him an extension before the start of the season. If by some miracles, he can shoot or Spurs can make it work offensively with his non-shooting, they can always give him a new contract next summer when he will be a RFA.

 

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1972682030727987282

 

[Shmurs]

did he not learn any of this shit in high school? Didn’t his mom play pro ball or something? Why did the guy who was bigger and stronger than all the other kids not bother with shooting mechanics until he was 20? This is so weird, man.

 

[ambchang]

did he not learn any of this shit in high school? Didn’t his mom play pro ball or something? Why did the guy who was bigger and stronger than all the other kids not bother with shooting mechanics until he was 20? This is so weird, man.

I was so worried you have nothing to complain about when he said he worked on his shot like a normal person would but then you reached deep in your creative bag and went back years to complain about the past. Like why wouldn’t he just get on a Time Machine and work on those things previously, right? Such a waste of time doing that now. Like shot, shouldn’t have Kawhi have worked on his shot in HS? Or Lonzo ball? Or Clyde Drexler learned to dribble with his head up?

Also can talk about how he didn’t work on sitting on the bench like he should because that’s what he’s good at and what he should always be doing.