Trade Spurs Trade Ideas

[mo7888]

I think there's a pretty significant trade value gap between Trey Murphy and Vassell.
As for Phoenix, I don't see how they trade 3&D players for another SG, that's the last thing they need.
I don't see Miami as a Vassell destination, they're a cap conscious team that tries to make room for signing stars, and Wiggins is playing well enough for them that I don't think they'd take the extra years.
MPJ would be a possibility and for sure he's a much better short term fit than DDR or whatever expiring you may otherwise get, but he's got 2 years left at 40M+ and I'd rather bet on an expiring and some young player. With that said, I'd still do that if that other possibility I mentioned isn't available.

All in all, I see broadly 3 camps when it comes to Vassell:
1) People who still believe in Vassell and don't think his contract is a problem
2) People who want to move him but at a crazy high ask and are comfortable waiting.
3) People who want to move him and would rather take an underwhelming package now than risking his value tanking further.

I think most people are in camp 2, I've been in camp 3 for a while now.

4) People who think he's a neutral asset and don't think his contract is a problem for the next year or so.

That's where I'm at.

 

[scott]

This is first and foremost an attempt to move off of Vassell's contract while we can and doing so without paying a cost. That in itself shouldn't be understated: he's still on the books for 4 years 105 millon (over 26M AAV), while we've just seen cheaper extensions for Dyson Daniels (4 years 25M AAV), Toumani Camara (4 years 21M AAV), Aaron Nesmith (2 years 20M AAV) Jabari Smith Jr (5 years 24M AAV), all players who may not be your first or second option, but are starting caliber players for playoff teams. In the new apron landscape, a contract such as Vassell going to be hard to move because he is not a top 3 option, or an elite role player on a good team, he's basically an inefficient 4th/5th option with mediocre defense and overall contributions, making like a player two tiers above. You can't expect that contract to have much value in the current market.

Also, I wish I believed he's got room to grow but this is his 6th season and he hasn't shown any substantial improvements that would justify waiting, you hold until you've exhausted every possible argument you can make in his favor, but that comes at the expense of everyone else also finding out. By then it'll be too late and he'll likely be considered a negative that requires assets attached for anyone to take him, while now some incautious team may still take the bet. This is what piques my interest about Sacramento, because they have a history of making boneheaded decisions that not many other franchises would make.

As for Keon Ellis, he's not a combo guard, he's a slightly undersized 3&D with +5 wingspan (6'3.5", 6'8.5") who fits perfectly as a low usage defender who can hit open 3s around the current core, you get to evaluate him up close and have the inner track to re-sign him if you like him, and if not you've taken no long term bad money. Is this the kind of deal you would have expected out of Vassell 3 years ago? certainly not, but reality changes and we need to acknowledge it, he was paid on the expectation of a leap that didn't happen and under a different CBA. I'll be delighted if the Spurs get more than this, but since it is bad practice to propose trades that assume a stupid counterpart, I'm trying to draw the line on what is the minimum package I'd be satisfied with in a Vassell trade that is realistic, which makes them invariably underwhelming. But I hope I'll be surprised for the better.

I'm on all board on the logic of getting off of Devin, but I think there are better offramps than closing out the year with Demar and eating $10MM of dead money, that's just a personal preference (unless you tell me we are giving up on this season... that's how low I am on Demar's fit even just to close out this season).

I like Keon, but I just disagree on how he fits with this team.

 

[twodeep]

I think there's a pretty significant trade value gap between Trey Murphy and Vassell.
As for Phoenix, I don't see how they trade 3&D players for another SG, that's the last thing they need.
I don't see Miami as a Vassell destination, they're a cap conscious team that tries to make room for signing stars, and Wiggins is playing well enough for them that I don't think they'd take the extra years.
MPJ would be a possibility and for sure he's a much better short term fit than DDR or whatever expiring you may otherwise get, but he's got 2 years left at 40M+ and I'd rather bet on an expiring and some young player. With that said, I'd still do that if that other possibility I mentioned isn't available.

All in all, I see broadly 3 camps when it comes to Vassell:
1) People who still believe in Vassell and don't think his contract is a problem
2) People who want to move him but at a crazy high ask and are comfortable waiting.
3) People who want to move him and would rather take an underwhelming package now than risking his value tanking further.

I think most people are in camp 2, I've been in camp 3 for a while now.

I am in camp three I rather two solid vets on shorter contracts then keeping vassel but i want nothing to do with DDR ever again

 

[scott]

I will say, if Devin can show out while Wemby and Castle are out (though Castle may just be a one game thing... though I just heard NBC pregame say 1-2 weeks... is this right?), then I would definitely trying to sell high on him.

Like mo, I really like the Wiggins fit, but like Ariel I don't see Miami as interested. MIL has always been the best Devin destination for me, maybe we can help them get off Kuz with him being re-routed somewhere else with us getting a 3&D elsewhere. Maybe something that lands Devin in MIL, Kuz in NOLA and Herb in SA...

What about this? We send either this year's pick with ATL Swap, or next year's ATL pick to NOLA to help them try to have some leverage back on the Hawks. MIL sends us a swap or two (I included two) to help them upgrade useless Kuz to someone who can actually be a Middleton replacement. Maybe the contracts make this neutral value and we get no swaps though.

We might have to give NOLA a little something extra here.

 

[CGD]

^ I've been trying to think of teams that could use a player like Dev while also having the pieces to make it work. Aside from SAC (obligatory inclusion for fleecing possibility), my preferred match is Chicago especially if they see themselves as a solid Top 6 playoff team if the East this year.

• I dont know what to make of Pat Williams, but I did read CHI was open to moving him last year (finally). Seems like a fit on paper here.
• I could also see a deal around Huerter and an asset (not sure how Spurs view Essengue for example).
• I could also see Jalen Smith having some appeal here but not sure how CHI sees him (Huerter/Smith/small asset)

NOLA is interesting given the panic potential over there, but not sure they'd off-load Herb to us. Having a hard time seeing another viable team right now.

 

[Ariel]

I'm on all board on the logic of getting off of Devin, but I think there are better offramps than closing out the year with Demar and eating $10MM of dead money, that's just a personal preference (unless you tell me we are giving up on this season... that's how low I am on Demar's fit even just to close out this season).

I like Keon, but I just disagree on how he fits with this team.

I wouldn't say I'm giving up on the season, I definitely think making the playoffs (and not getting swept) should be a priority. But yes, to me it's much more important paving the way to make adjustments in the next 2, 3, 4 years, than it is to give us the best chance to compete this year, because I think there's 0% chance Spurs contend right now, but that is going to change soon with the right moves.

As for the specific proposal, I honestly don't think Vassell puts us in much better position than Keon Ellis plus whomever. Like I said, I don't really care for DeRozan, what I care about is dealing with Sacramento because they're one of the few teams that may be willing to take his contract off our hands and DeRozan is the obvious matching salary they want to rid themselves of. But if you're telling me it's a three way deal with DeRozan going to Miami and Rozier going to the Spurs (he's expiring and would be getting waived) like I also proposed, that works for me too. I just see DeRozan as a placeholder, I'm sure he can be re-routed elsewhere for a similar contract if that's the point of contention.

Ultimately, I think were most of us diverge on is Vassell's real value, I have his contract as a no go for a lot of teams because a lot of better players have just signed lower contracts than he has (Dyson Daniels, Camara, Nesmith, etc) and I am a lot less optimistic in what he can bring back. If we could get back what you propose above (a package centered around Herb Jones) I definitely would prefer that, I just think we'd have to put significant assets on top of Vassell to make that happen, whereas with my proposal it's closer. But if we can find a team that sees it the way most here do, I'm definitely happier. Just not expecting it.

 

[LeBowen]

Devin is so awful right now I'd take literally any expiring contract in return. Maybe even a contract expiring in 2027 if the player isn't that terrible.
We just have to move Devin because he's getting closer to negative value considering the length of his contract.

 

[CGD]

Devin is so awful right now I'd take literally any expiring contract in return. Maybe even a contract expiring in 2027 if the player isn't that terrible.
We just have to move Devin because he's getting closer to negative value considering the length of his contract.

Huerter/Essengue for Devin. Let's go.

 

[scott]

Devin is so awful right now I'd take literally any expiring contract in return. Maybe even a contract expiring in 2027 if the player isn't that terrible.
We just have to move Devin because he's getting closer to negative value considering the length of his contract.

PG13 has one fewer year on his deal (2 if he doesn't exercise his PO)... how desperate are you?

 

[mo7888]

PG13 has one fewer year on his deal (2 if he doesn't exercise his PO)... how desperate are you?

If i could trade Devin straight up i probably would, but you have to add salary to match and i wouldn't be willing to do that.

 

[twodeep]

If i could trade Devin straight up i probably would, but you have to add salary to match and i wouldn't be willing to do that.

How about Vassell for Khris Middleton expiring and throw in a 2nd rounder to the Wizards

 

[inagra]

I will say, if Devin can show out while Wemby and Castle are out (though Castle may just be a one game thing... though I just heard NBC pregame say 1-2 weeks... is this right?), then I would definitely trying to sell high on him.

Like mo, I really like the Wiggins fit, but like Ariel I don't see Miami as interested. MIL has always been the best Devin destination for me, maybe we can help them get off Kuz with him being re-routed somewhere else with us getting a 3&D elsewhere. Maybe something that lands Devin in MIL, Kuz in NOLA and Herb in SA...

What about this? We send either this year's pick with ATL Swap, or next year's ATL pick to NOLA to help them try to have some leverage back on the Hawks. MIL sends us a swap or two (I included two) to help them upgrade useless Kuz to someone who can actually be a Middleton replacement. Maybe the contracts make this neutral value and we get no swaps though.

We might have to give NOLA a little something extra here.

Vassell is not worth 2 swaps, especially if you consider, Bucks could very likely be without Giannis by then.

Like the spirit of the trade...but the chances of it happening would be slim

 

[spursfanfromafar]

Vassell's performance this season is actually better than last one's and he is a net positive in WAR (EPM isn't yet out and this is a good analytical stat by ESPN).

Check it out - https://espnanalytics.com/nba-net-ptsWAR

Vassell has the third best defense numbers behind Wemby and Castle and his offense numbers aren't that offensive.

In terms of overall WAR, there is very little that separates Trey Murphy and Vassell and the former is also a maddeningly inconsistent player.

The Spurs should try to improve its shooting around Wemby and if Vassell is the vessel for a trade, I am all for it provided we get a significantly better player.

But as things stand he isn't hurting the team and once his shooting comes around (a good possibility considering his record overall), he will be even more useful.

 

[spursfanfromafar]

How about Vassell for Khris Middleton expiring and throw in a 2nd rounder to the Wizards

Stupidity. Middleton is washed.

 

[twodeep]

Stupidity. Middleton is washed.

He Expires so you would do it for cap reasons nothing else and you would do it close to trade deadline.

 

[Raven_]

Devin is so awful right now I'd take literally any expiring contract in return. Maybe even a contract expiring in 2027 if the player isn't that terrible.
We just have to move Devin because he's getting closer to negative value considering the length of his contract.

2 blocks and 2 steals on a +11 in a 10 points game didn't work for you, i assume

 

[spursfanfromafar]

The Spurs are done tanking. They are building a team that will first get into the playoffs and then contend. They arent dumping useful players for capspace.

 

[RC_Drunkford]

Damn, another fake trade proposal that doesn't make RC_Drunkford happy. I guess it's bed early and no dinner tonight.

PS: no explanation of how Vassell's declining salary makes it a good contract today?

Ain't you the same guy who wanted to trade Castle for Jarace Walker and Aaron Nesmith? Players with an EFG of 47% and 36%? Just imagine your dream starting line up of

Fox/Nesmith/DeRozan/Walker/Wemby

The spacing with Walker (26%) and DeRozan would be out of this world.

I'm sure that line up would destroy OKC in the playoffs.

 

[spursparker9]

I would wish for the Spurs to trade Assell but I got a feeling that they won't because of the power of the friendship crew and also upsetting Wemby. Wemby has mentioned during media day that he is glad that the front office did not trade away their young core to pursue the ageing KD. He wants to have a chance to play with the young core

 

[Exstatic]

There is zero point in just offloading salary at this point.

 

[mo7888]

How about Vassell for Khris Middleton expiring and throw in a 2nd rounder to the Wizards

No, i think Middleton is more washed than PG

 

[JJSPUR]

No, i think Middleton is more washed than PG

I'll settle this diplomatically, they're both washed up.

 

[Nike.]

Wizards are in a race for a top3 pick in this draft and will have more cap space this summer then any other team. Middleton is the biggest reason for that cap space. Not sure why they’d get in the way of that rebuild and interfere with coveted future cap space for Vassell.

I think the Spurs would also have to throw in another player to make the contracts work.

 

[Ice009]

Wizards are in a race for a top3 pick in this draft and will have more cap space this summer then any other team. Middleton is the biggest reason for that cap space. Not sure why they’d get in the way of that rebuild and interfere with coveted future cap space for Vassell.

I think the Spurs would also have to throw in another player to make the contracts work.

Exactly. No way the Wizards are looking to throw their cap space away for Vassell.

 

[spurraider21]

I'm on all board on the logic of getting off of Devin, but I think there are better offramps than closing out the year with Demar and eating $10MM of dead money, that's just a personal preference (unless you tell me we are giving up on this season... that's how low I am on Demar's fit even just to close out this season).

I like Keon, but I just disagree on how he fits with this team.

i think some of the calculus on Keon would be you sign him to a multiyear deal knowing his role wont be huge right now, but if we do in fact move off of one of fox/castle/harper in a couple of years then he steps up