Analysis Spurs roster path: consolidate into one high-end role player or keep stacking affordable depth

[OK Computer]

The new CBA makes it harder to juggle multiple big contracts. Fox is already on a max deal, Wemby will get one soon, and Harper and Castle won’t be cheap down the line. That doesn’t leave much room to add another high-salary player unless one of them is part of the trade.

Look at how OKC built around SGA, J-Dub, and Chet. They didn’t add another big name who eats cap space. They focused on keeping solid role players who fit, and it’s paying off. The Spurs should take a similar route by locking in guys like Champagnie early on affordable deals and building a strong bench instead of chasing another expensive piece.

I get the urge to move on from players who might not be long-term fits like Keldon, Sochan, or Vassell, but packaging them for a single upgrade doesn’t move the needle. You’d just lose depth and flexibility. Bringing in someone like Markkanen might make the starting five better, but the rest of the roster would suffer. You end up good but not built to last.

Unless it’s a legit star, consolidating for one higher-end role player just limits the team’s future moves.

 

[spurraider21]

i think you keep stacking until you are clearly ready to enter contending mode, then you make the consolidation trade, shorten the rotation, and go for it. besides, the spurs have some depth now... but harrison barnes is expiring. sochan will be entering restricted free agency. olynyk is expiring. is keldon a part of the long term plan?

we're also done with the multiple first round picks in the same year thing, its not like we're going to keep stacking obious young talent organically

 

[scott]

I voted for affordable long-term pieces... but with some nuance... because doing so requires a consolidation trade, IMO. Not for a star, but to get contracts like Vassell's off the books to create room for affordable pieces but also to clear what I perceive to be a log-jam of mid (role player) level wings.

Here is an example... would the team be much worse off if instead of Devin at $27MM/yr, we had Haywood Highsmith at his $5.6MM deal? Yes, Devin appears to be a "better player" but that's largely because of role. Highsmith is a role player who plays better D and is a better career shooter than Devin... the two things we actually need from the position, not the other things Devin does that we really prefer he didn't.

Basically... I'd rather find a way to clear out Devin and make room for several more Champs. Would likely require taking back a big expiring for this year, but that's fine.

 

[The_Second_Coming_of_VY65]

I kinda strongly disagree, but in a certain sense. We need a consolidation trade to upgrade the second forward/second big spot/wing spots. You currently have: Sochan, Vassell (I view him as a wing), Champegnie, Keldon, Carter Bryant, Harrison Ingram (somehow suited up last night), and Harrison Barnes. You could throw Olynyk there too. That's 96 minutes spread across 7 players. If we implement a 3 guard lineup, you could either add Steph to that mix, then you'd have 8 players for 2 spots, or 7 for 1 depending on how you look at it. Sure, Ingram and CB will probably play 10 minutes a night between the two, but even then, it's not maintainable. Our starting 4 last night looked all kinds of rickety too - so there's a dire need there. A 3-for-1 trade (with draft capital) allows for an upgrade while still keeping depth.

 

[BacktoBasics]

Sample size of 1 game but it sure looked to me that Vassell and Keldon looked locked into their roles last night. Vassell played within himself and Keldon arguably passed too often.

Outside of the size of vassells contract I felt good about our role players. We need good depth and constantly whittling down to one or two skill subsets for bargain contracts will eventually water down our bench. Someone will get hurt and those bargain players won’t be dynamic enough to fill the gaps.

Unless we can upgrade significantly I’m not super open to downgrading.

Fuck it. I like what we have.

 

[spurraider21]

gotta say @Chinook was right and PF keldon is best keldon

 

[OK Computer]

I kinda strongly disagree, but in a certain sense. We need a consolidation trade to upgrade the second forward/second big spot/wing spots. You currently have: Sochan, Vassell (I view him as a wing), Champegnie, Keldon, Carter Bryant, Harrison Ingram (somehow suited up last night), and Harrison Barnes. You could throw Olynyk there too. That's 96 minutes spread across 7 players. If we implement a 3 guard lineup, you could either add Steph to that mix, then you'd have 8 players for 2 spots, or 7 for 1 depending on how you look at it. Sure, Ingram and CB will probably play 10 minutes a night between the two, but even then, it's not maintainable. Our starting 4 last night looked all kinds of rickety too - so there's a dire need there. A 3-for-1 trade (with draft capital) allows for an upgrade while still keeping depth.

The premise of the thread is how there’s a problem when you execute a 3-for-1 trade where the 1 player has a large salary and expectations are set for their next salary with us to be equal to or greater than their current, which would handicap what the team can do overall with roster moves.

 

[Splits]

it's tough to read the tea leaves, but that scene last night where "professor Wemby" was standing and lecturing and the entire bench was looking at him like he just descended from heaven and was splitting the sea gives me hope the friendship crew might fall in line. we bitch about their salaries, but only Main Character really impacts anything long term and if he falls into his 4th option role the $25m/y is digestible. we don't need/can't handle another long term near-max contract given the new CBA and what's in front of us. so I'm in the "keep the friendship crew" group for now.

 

[spurraider21]

it's tough to read the tea leaves, but that scene last night where "professor Wemby" was standing and lecturing and the entire bench was looking at him like he just descended from heaven and was splitting the sea gives me hope the friendship crew might fall in line. we bitch about their salaries, but only Main Character really impacts anything long term and if he falls into his 4th option role the $25m/y is digestible.

ive liked the way main character has played so far this year even going back to preseason. but the problem is his outside shot isnt falling. he shot 3-16 from 3 in the four preseason games, and shot 1-4 yesterday.

but hes been defending better than i've seen from him in the last 2 years, and offensively doesnt feel like he's had the main character syndrome where he is freezing guys out so he can dance into his 6 second combo of moves to burp up a contested 2. he's been making pretty solid decisions imo. the shot not falling is the only real issue i have with how he's playing right now.

and for guys like this, just having 1 more of these shots fall makes all the difference when it comes to perception. if he finished yesterday's game with 16/3/4 with no turnovers, 2 steals, on 7-14 shooting and 2-4 from 3... there would be no room to complain at all. but he's a career 37% shooter, the thought of him being an actual specialist has yet to come to fruition. hasnt shot above 39% thru any of his first 5 seasons

 

[spursparker9]

Who are the candidates for that high-end role players?

 

[Splits]

ive liked the way main character has played so far this year even going back to preseason. but the problem is his outside shot isnt falling. he shot 3-16 from 3 in the four preseason games, and shot 1-4 yesterday.

but hes been defending better than i've seen from him in the last 2 years, and offensively doesnt feel like he's had the main character syndrome where he is freezing guys out so he can dance into his 6 second combo of moves to burp up a contested 2. he's been making pretty solid decisions imo. the shot not falling is the only real issue i have with how he's playing right now, but yeah, living up to the salary is something else entirely

not really concerned with his 3 not falling, shooters streak, it happens. his attentiveness on the defensive end is the thing that needed to change from the past couple of seasons. so far so good, but can he keep it up? also didn't see the Wilson basketball pump every TV timeout needed because he was deflating it with his MCS, so that's another indicator.

 

[Correct Crusader]

Just roll with our roster how it is, add small pieces here or there to replace guys leaving. We're young & ready to compete, so there's no reason to make desperate moves rn.

 

[spurraider21]

not really concerned with his 3 not falling, shooters streak, it happens. his attentiveness on the defensive end is the thing that needed to change from the past couple of seasons. so far so good, but can he keep it up? also didn't see the Wilson basketball pump every TV timeout needed because he was deflating it with his MCS, so that's another indicator.

yeah its on him to sustain the intensity. but with the increased competition for minutes, that might be the cattle prod up the ass he needs. yeah, he got 31 minutes yesterday, but something's gonna give when Fox comes back. sure, some minutes will be cut around the edges from Barnes/Champagnie and those early McLaughlin minutes we saw, there will be more minutes than just those. Castle is playing well. They clearly want to bring Harper along. They even gave Bryant some rotation minutes in the first half yesterday

then you have Waters coming back who can provide spot minutes as a shooter

 

[Splits]

yeah its on him to sustain the intensity. but with the increased competition for minutes, that might be the cattle prod up the ass he needs. yeah, he got 31 minutes yesterday, but something's gonna give when Fox comes back. sure, some minutes will be cut around the edges from Barnes/Champagnie and those early McLaughlin minutes we saw, there will be more minutes than just those. Castle is playing well. They clearly want to bring Harper along. They even gave Bryant some rotation minutes in the first half yesterday

then you have Waters coming back who can provide spot minutes as a shooter

really liked how Mitch managed Harper's minutes and the fact that if you subtract VW from the picture he clearly outplayed Copper. That's going to be a serious challenge when Fox comes back, but yes agreed Barnes/McLaughlin/Bryant will be sacrificial lambs to keep Harper on the court. If he can keep what he showed the final 3 quarters, you just can't sideline him.

Waters and DFG will be in the Wesley/Branham doghouse unfortunately, because they deserve better. But what ya gonna do when you roll 12 deep

 

[spurraider21]

really liked how Mitch managed Harper's minutes and the fact that if you subtract VW from the picture he clearly outplayed Copper. That's going to be a serious challenge when Fox comes back, but yes agreed Barnes/McLaughlin/Bryant will be sacrificial lambs to keep Harper on the court. If he can keep what he showed the final 3 quarters, you just can't sideline him.

Waters and DFG will be in the Wesley/Branham doghouse unfortunately, because they deserve better. But what ya gonna do when you roll 12 deep

DJG is a score-first, ball in his hands guy who doesnt really defend notably. to that end, he should get the branham treatment. yeah if we are short handed because we have a couple of our guards hurt, we could use the punch. as a reminder, he's a 2-way guy

Waters... he's just another shooter. doest really do much with the ball. his defense isnt notable in a good or bad way. and while he's a shooter its not like he's a mcnuggets level shooter where you are planning sets around him. he'll find spot minutes here and there to round out ends of quarters or something, but im not expecting real rotation time for him

 

[The Truth #6]

I say no trade unless we somehow trade Devin for future assets.

As we are soon about to see, many players will start having to take less than they hope in free agency, and so this affords us more bang for our buck for this tier of player. So quality starters may soon be paid as role players. Anyway, point is, waiting now might actually help us grab future players at a good deal.