Game Thread Spurs (40-16) vs Pistons (42-13) (Mon 02/23/26) [6:00 PM CST] on Peacock

[Dex]

lol Cade

Imagine floating that up there like "let's see him get to this"...and then he does

 

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2026355161245880722

 

[scott]

Two underrated things I haven't seen much discussed from last night's game, one good and one bad;

1. The good: Castle's defense is getting all the shine, but I was particularly impressed by some of the 3pt shots he took and made yesterday - the one at 00:30 on this highlight video in particular. Running to the corner, off-balance, just sets his feet in a second and puts up a beautiful jumper for a clean 3. That was not happening at the start of the season, nor during his slump; Guard Whisperer training seems to be finally reaping its benefits. Harper is already a decent C&S threat, and if Castle can be a reliable outside threat as well.... That's a ceiling raiser.
   
   
2. The bad: I continue to be disappointed with Fox's play and lack of not only scoring arsenal, but general playmaking. I know Scott and others heavily attribute this to scheme and coaching decisions, and it's obviously true to an extent that Castle and Harper are designated "PGs"...... But at some point, you just can't be having your second star being a corner stalwart or relegated to just spacing the court. It's not so easy to "flip the switch" when you're already in high-stakes playoff games, and I fear the team won't be accustomed to a heavier Fox usage, leading to out-of-rhythm players when he's "calling his own" and just growing pains at the worst possible times.
   
   The Spurs have looked so good and powerful that it's hard to say they should be doing things differently, but I'm coming to be a little concerned about Fox's presence or role on the team moving forward. He's a sixty million dollar man starting next season, and the way this season's gone, there's about 3 or 4 players I'd rather be paying that money to (not to mention splitting that into 20/20/20 or 30/30M role-player upgrades, or whatever).
   
   It's all too easy to assume "we're saving his stuff for the playoffs" and if it's truly real, then Mitch is a god-damned mastermind and the Spurs are chipping this season, considering how good they've been with hardly depending on their second All-Star [that period with Wemby out notwithstanding]; but I fear it's not that at all, and that by the time we're resorting to ringing the Fox Bell when Harper, Castle and Wemby are struggling to create offense deep into the postseason, Fox may not be ready to seamlessly step into that role.

Just some things going against the grain of current discourse and back-patting, obviously a relatively small concern all things considered (and yes I'm aware the contracts line up nicely, but I'd still rather not be paying Fox like that if this is what we're getting from him more often than not). A 30/10 game from Fox against Toronto would be a sight for sore eyes....

I'll counter this by point out that despite a horrible shooting night, Fox actually impacted the game quite positively that was vital to the success of the team and outside of scoring played a really good game in the highest stakes environment we've seen this season.

We didn't lose a single minute when Fox was on the floor last night, as he contributed 7 reb and 7 assists. His poise and care was critical last night against a team that thrives on turning the ball over and creating points off turnovers. His drives last night opened up our offense tremendously. He had a big brain set of back to back plays early in the 2nd half that were also huge - he blew past cade and juked him in the paint for a layup. Very next time down the court, he does the exact same thing but pump fakes Cade into his 4th foul. This was one of those huge overlooked moments in the game that completely changed the way the Pistons played defense the rest of the quarter, and the Spurs relentlessly went after Cade after that. They tried to hide him on Vassell so we immediately started feeding Vassell. They were screening to get Cade switched onto Fox, Castle and Harper so they could continue to attack him. This was absolutely critical to how we won the second half, and it came about from Fox's veteran savvy.

There needs to come an acceptance that if you want Fox to be a 25ppg scorer, you're going to be disappointed. This isn't the way the Spurs are going to play. The team's offensive identity is clearly based around a theory of diversification, as evidenced by 8 players averaging double digits, a rare feat (though we would not be the first - as I've heard mentioned in broadcasts. The Heat actually accomplished for several consecutive seasons a few years ago).

There has been talk of the idea of "flipping the switch" and Fox becoming a more dominant scorer at one point... but why are we operating under the assumption the Spurs would do this? That's not the way they are designed - why would the Spurs spend the entire season building this largely diversified offensive attack, only then to transition to having it revolve around one or two players? The Spurs strength is that we are not reliant upon individuals. We can survive Wemby, Fox and Castle combining to go 17/49 because we don't rely on them to be efficient scorers to win game. This is not accidental, it's by design. We didn't merely survive an off offensive night from our 3 best players... our system worked in overcoming it.

Now, to the point of Fox's contract... it is definitely a fair question to ask if it is worth paying a max contract for someone playing this role. I've said multiple times that if this is how you're going to play Fox, I wouldn't give up all we gave up nor hand out a max contract... but at some point we just have to accept that we did and that this is the gameplan that the staff feels best positions us to win. There is no undoing the trade or the contract... there is only deploying him in the way that best suits the team, and I feel like we're doing that.

And then with that, I'll ask a very results-focused question... would you be happier if we had less wins but Fox were averaging 25ppg at the expense of Castle, Harper, Vassell and Champagnie scoring? At the end of the day, the objective of the game is to win and if you're quibbling over individual stats and looking past the results, you've kind of lost the plot. Neither advanced stats nor the eye test tells me that Fox isn't doing anything but helping the team... the main gripe about him seems to be that he isn't matching the pre-conceived notion of what we think a Max Player should be doing... but perhaps that's not Fox's shortcoming, but rather it is ours as fans.

Edit: I'll add, listen to Jared Weiss around the 29:30 mark here, talking about how Fox controlled the tempo in the second half last night.

These are the little things that go unnoticed, because we have an expectations for Max players to be headline stat producers, but that's not the way the Spurs are using Fox.

 

[bozhemoi]

Two underrated things I haven't seen much discussed from last night's game, one good and one bad;

1. The good: Castle's defense is getting all the shine, but I was particularly impressed by some of the 3pt shots he took and made yesterday - the one at 00:30 on this highlight video in particular. Running to the corner, off-balance, just sets his feet in a second and puts up a beautiful jumper for a clean 3. That was not happening at the start of the season, nor during his slump; Guard Whisperer training seems to be finally reaping its benefits. Harper is already a decent C&S threat, and if Castle can be a reliable outside threat as well.... That's a ceiling raiser.
   
   
2. The bad: I continue to be disappointed with Fox's play and lack of not only scoring arsenal, but general playmaking. I know Scott and others heavily attribute this to scheme and coaching decisions, and it's obviously true to an extent that Castle and Harper are designated "PGs"...... But at some point, you just can't be having your second star being a corner stalwart or relegated to just spacing the court. It's not so easy to "flip the switch" when you're already in high-stakes playoff games, and I fear the team won't be accustomed to a heavier Fox usage, leading to out-of-rhythm players when he's "calling his own" and just growing pains at the worst possible times.
   
   The Spurs have looked so good and powerful that it's hard to say they should be doing things differently, but I'm coming to be a little concerned about Fox's presence or role on the team moving forward. He's a sixty million dollar man starting next season, and the way this season's gone, there's about 3 or 4 players I'd rather be paying that money to (not to mention splitting that into 20/20/20 or 30/30M role-player upgrades, or whatever).
   
   It's all too easy to assume "we're saving his stuff for the playoffs" and if it's truly real, then Mitch is a god-damned mastermind and the Spurs are chipping this season, considering how good they've been with hardly depending on their second All-Star [that period with Wemby out notwithstanding]; but I fear it's not that at all, and that by the time we're resorting to ringing the Fox Bell when Harper, Castle and Wemby are struggling to create offense deep into the postseason, Fox may not be ready to seamlessly step into that role.

Just some things going against the grain of current discourse and back-patting, obviously a relatively small concern all things considered (and yes I'm aware the contracts line up nicely, but I'd still rather not be paying Fox like that if this is what we're getting from him more often than not). A 30/10 game from Fox against Toronto would be a sight for sore eyes....

I've been ringing this bell on Fox for a while and people yelled at me. He's extremely expensive for what he delivers. I don't think there's an on switch, either. He hasn't been that player for a while, and the team's schema doesn't really want a player to go freelancing and break things to get their shots. He has trouble breaking players down as it is, as the league gets bigger and he ages.

He's still super fast and most importantly handles the ball very well. He's a good player, just not a max player. (I had huge problems with this last year.) He can be very clutch, and he gives another good attacking point for the team. He falls asleep on defense (but has gotten better) and can pick up steals. Those are all good things. And he's an All-Star, which will help if the team needs to move him before long.

I feel like they will need to. It's impossible to request Harper to come off the bench for three more years. I feel like giving Fox the max was not just acknowledgment that he forced his way out of Sacramento for the Spurs, and as a favor to Klutch as well, but as a nod that we will find him another home eventually.

But overall he's something like the third or fourth best player on the team, and is often outplayed by others, even by Keldon. Wembanyama and Stephon are clearly the number one and number two. The team struggled badly when Vassell was out - Dev provides an outlet that Fox simply doesn't.

At this point, I'm kind of over it. The team is playing extremely well and he's a good part of it. The contract will become a headache, the fact that he's not really that great of a player is a slight issue, but he provides important things to the team right now. I'm sure the summer after this one or so we can find a home that would make him happy with his sixty million a year as we give Harper his spot.

 

[Seventyniner]

And then with that, I'll ask a very results-focused question... would you be happier if we had less wins but Fox were averaging 25ppg at the expense of Castle, Harper, Vassell and Champagnie scoring? At the end of the day, the objective of the game is to win and if you're quibbling over individual stats and looking past the results, you've kind of lost the plot. Neither advanced stats nor the eye test tells me that Fox isn't doing anything but helping the team... the main gripe about him seems to be that he isn't matching the pre-conceived notion of what we think a Max Player should be doing... but perhaps that's not Fox's shortcoming, but rather it is ours as fans.

Boiled down: the fault is not in our stars.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Wemby is the best player in the league, tbh.
His defensive impact is equal to what Jokic/SGA/Luka do on offense and his offense is more impactful than their defense.
Having Wemby means you can afford to have a subpar defender on the wing next to him, while having Luka/Jokic means you have to surround them with good defenders, even if they're offensively challenged.

If we get 60 wins, he has to be the MVP.

I'm with you but there would have be a serious change in the current media bias about the MVP award this season. NBA.com had a straw poll a week ago and he got like 3 1st place votes.. It was SGA by huge margin.

 

[Mugen]

Beautifully put re my thoughts on Fox by @scott tbh.

I have nothing of substance to add except nothing literally pisses me off more than a Fox missed free throw for some reason. I feel like he doesn't give a shit about making them

 

[scott]

Beautifully put re my thoughts on Fox by @scott tbh.

I have nothing of substance to add except nothing literally pisses me off more than a Fox missed free throw for some reason. I feel like he doesn't give a shit about making them

Yeah, those two bricks were frustrating as shit. I think he's 100% at FT in clutch time, which is crazy since he's only an average at best FT shooter overall. But I expect anyone under 6'4" to be a 90% FT shooter by default

 

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2026370046805594498

 

[BatManu20]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2026326259924414577

 

[LeBowen]

Yeah, those two bricks were frustrating as shit. I think he's 100% at FT in clutch time, which is crazy since he's only an average at best FT shooter overall. But I expect anyone under 6'4" to be a 90% FT shooter by default

75% career FT shooter.
I just don't understand how can someone who's comfortable taking stepback 3s be a subpar FT shooter.
Anything under 80% is pretty bad for a guard, tbh.
We were 12-19 from the FT line yesterday. They better sort it out before the playoffs or it's definitely going to cost us a game or two.

 

[spurraider21]

Now, to the point of Fox's contract... it is definitely a fair question to ask if it is worth paying a max contract for someone playing this role. I've said multiple times that if this is how you're going to play Fox, I wouldn't give up all we gave up nor hand out a max contract... but at some point we just have to accept that we did and that this is the gameplan that the staff feels best positions us to win. There is no undoing the trade or the contract... there is only deploying him in the way that best suits the team, and I feel like we're doing that.

to this point, we have the luxury of being able to overpay a few guys relative to their roles (fox and even vassell) because we dont really have any albatross contracts, and wemby/castle are on their rookie deals. its true that champagnie will need a pay bump, but HB is also not going to cost us 19m next season, so we are pretty well positioned to overpay a couple of guys right now. if carter bryant becomes a legitimate rotation player next year... then thats yet another cheap piece that lets us overspend elsewhere

 

[The Ballsbreakers]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2026370046805594498

That's just exquisite.

 

[rjv]

I'll counter this by point out that despite a horrible shooting night, Fox actually impacted the game quite positively that was vital to the success of the team and outside of scoring played a really good game in the highest stakes environment we've seen this season.

We didn't lose a single minute when Fox was on the floor last night, as he contributed 7 reb and 7 assists. His poise and care was critical last night against a team that thrives on turning the ball over and creating points off turnovers. His drives last night opened up our offense tremendously. He had a big brain set of back to back plays early in the 2nd half that were also huge - he blew past cade and juked him in the paint for a layup. Very next time down the court, he does the exact same thing but pump fakes Cade into his 4th foul. This was one of those huge overlooked moments in the game that completely changed the way the Pistons played defense the rest of the quarter, and the Spurs relentlessly went after Cade after that. They tried to hide him on Vassell so we immediately started feeding Vassell. They were screening to get Cade switched onto Fox, Castle and Harper so they could continue to attack him. This was absolutely critical to how we won the second half, and it came about from Fox's veteran savvy.

There needs to come an acceptance that if you want Fox to be a 25ppg scorer, you're going to be disappointed. This isn't the way the Spurs are going to play. The team's offensive identity is clearly based around a theory of diversification, as evidenced by 8 players averaging double digits, a rare feat (though we would not be the first - as I've heard mentioned in broadcasts. The Heat actually accomplished for several consecutive seasons a few years ago).

There has been talk of the idea of "flipping the switch" and Fox becoming a more dominant scorer at one point... but why are we operating under the assumption the Spurs would do this? That's not the way they are designed - why would the Spurs spend the entire season building this largely diversified offensive attack, only then to transition to having it revolve around one or two players? The Spurs strength is that we are not reliant upon individuals. We can survive Wemby, Fox and Castle combining to go 17/49 because we don't rely on them to be efficient scorers to win game. This is not accidental, it's by design. We didn't merely survive an off offensive night from our 3 best players... our system worked in overcoming it.

Now, to the point of Fox's contract... it is definitely a fair question to ask if it is worth paying a max contract for someone playing this role. I've said multiple times that if this is how you're going to play Fox, I wouldn't give up all we gave up nor hand out a max contract... but at some point we just have to accept that we did and that this is the gameplan that the staff feels best positions us to win. There is no undoing the trade or the contract... there is only deploying him in the way that best suits the team, and I feel like we're doing that.

And then with that, I'll ask a very results-focused question... would you be happier if we had less wins but Fox were averaging 25ppg at the expense of Castle, Harper, Vassell and Champagnie scoring? At the end of the day, the objective of the game is to win and if you're quibbling over individual stats and looking past the results, you've kind of lost the plot. Neither advanced stats nor the eye test tells me that Fox isn't doing anything but helping the team... the main gripe about him seems to be that he isn't matching the pre-conceived notion of what we think a Max Player should be doing... but perhaps that's not Fox's shortcoming, but rather it is ours as fans.

Edit: I'll add, listen to Jared Weiss around the 29:30 mark here, talking about how Fox controlled the tempo in the second half last night.

These are the little things that go unnoticed, because we have an expectations for Max players to be headline stat producers, but that's not the way the Spurs are using Fox.

damn dude, this was inspiring enough to make me want to jump through a wall.

 

[spursfanlikeyou]

Detroit is getting bounced in the second round, maybe first. Calling it now.

 

[1kangaroo]

I'll counter this by point out that despite a horrible shooting night, Fox actually impacted the game quite positively that was vital to the success of the team and outside of scoring played a really good game in the highest stakes environment we've seen this season.

We didn't lose a single minute when Fox was on the floor last night, as he contributed 7 reb and 7 assists. His poise and care was critical last night against a team that thrives on turning the ball over and creating points off turnovers. His drives last night opened up our offense tremendously. He had a big brain set of back to back plays early in the 2nd half that were also huge - he blew past cade and juked him in the paint for a layup. Very next time down the court, he does the exact same thing but pump fakes Cade into his 4th foul. This was one of those huge overlooked moments in the game that completely changed the way the Pistons played defense the rest of the quarter, and the Spurs relentlessly went after Cade after that. They tried to hide him on Vassell so we immediately started feeding Vassell. They were screening to get Cade switched onto Fox, Castle and Harper so they could continue to attack him. This was absolutely critical to how we won the second half, and it came about from Fox's veteran savvy.

There needs to come an acceptance that if you want Fox to be a 25ppg scorer, you're going to be disappointed. This isn't the way the Spurs are going to play. The team's offensive identity is clearly based around a theory of diversification, as evidenced by 8 players averaging double digits, a rare feat (though we would not be the first - as I've heard mentioned in broadcasts. The Heat actually accomplished for several consecutive seasons a few years ago).

There has been talk of the idea of "flipping the switch" and Fox becoming a more dominant scorer at one point... but why are we operating under the assumption the Spurs would do this? That's not the way they are designed - why would the Spurs spend the entire season building this largely diversified offensive attack, only then to transition to having it revolve around one or two players? The Spurs strength is that we are not reliant upon individuals. We can survive Wemby, Fox and Castle combining to go 17/49 because we don't rely on them to be efficient scorers to win game. This is not accidental, it's by design. We didn't merely survive an off offensive night from our 3 best players... our system worked in overcoming it.

Now, to the point of Fox's contract... it is definitely a fair question to ask if it is worth paying a max contract for someone playing this role. I've said multiple times that if this is how you're going to play Fox, I wouldn't give up all we gave up nor hand out a max contract... but at some point we just have to accept that we did and that this is the gameplan that the staff feels best positions us to win. There is no undoing the trade or the contract... there is only deploying him in the way that best suits the team, and I feel like we're doing that.

And then with that, I'll ask a very results-focused question... would you be happier if we had less wins but Fox were averaging 25ppg at the expense of Castle, Harper, Vassell and Champagnie scoring? At the end of the day, the objective of the game is to win and if you're quibbling over individual stats and looking past the results, you've kind of lost the plot. Neither advanced stats nor the eye test tells me that Fox isn't doing anything but helping the team... the main gripe about him seems to be that he isn't matching the pre-conceived notion of what we think a Max Player should be doing... but perhaps that's not Fox's shortcoming, but rather it is ours as fans.

Edit: I'll add, listen to Jared Weiss around the 29:30 mark here, talking about how Fox controlled the tempo in the second half last night.

These are the little things that go unnoticed, because we have an expectations for Max players to be headline stat producers, but that's not the way the Spurs are using Fox.

I am fine with it but I never been the one to complain about Fox not scoring 25 points a night I under stand this is team basketball the way we use to play and won titles with in years past. I though Fox has done a great job fitting in and realizing it starts with Wemby and he adjust his role buy what the team needs that night from facilitating to being a score first player. That si why the htree head monster of Harper, castle, Fox works they have all learned to be un-selfish and play their role

Everyone seems to only think 25ppg is worth something and I hate that but it is what it is from certain fans best thing we can do is ignore them and keep pointing out the reality