Analysis Brian Windhorst: “Spurs are a playoff contender”

[scott]

Who is the first of team friendship to leave our team? I think it’s Sochan

If we go by actual contribution to the team, I think it should be.

 

[Neuromancer]

P

do people really think pop is doing president of basketball ops things? My guess is that it’s just a title and hers serving more of a ceremonial role.

I really hope you're right. But even if so, why obfuscate it from the fans? The whole "I'm Jefe" thing makes me think it's not just a ceremonial title either

 

[scott]

Don't think across the board works when you credit their #1 & #2 guys as Top5-ish, Top30ish. The reigning ROY weak draft or not, the #2 pick, and the #14 pick. Vassell clearly has NBA talent, talent is not his issue. Since Feb we had an in-his-prime AS choose us and a top-end bench player choose us. They must see something you don't.

How rare is it for a Top 5-10 player to clearly be the best defender in the league? In 40 yrs, we're talking Prime Kawhi, Timmy, Hakeem, Jordan. Its extremely rare. That's worth lots more than talent from your #3-8 guys imo.

30 teams, having a not elderly Top 5-10 and Top25-35 guy is the foundation you want. And our guy will if be unanimous DPOY if healthy.

Look around the league, what teams wouldn't trade their roster for the Spurs? Its like 90% bad cap situations with aging/injured stars, treadmill teams, and perennial tankers.
At least 20+ would trade their "talent" for just Wemby + Castle + Harper.

You never know how the chips will fall, but I wouldn't trade our "talent" and LT potential for any roster except OKC.
Free to disagree but "Noticeable lack of talent ACROSS the board" I'm going with nah on that.

IIRC, only Jordan and Giannis have won MVP and DPOY the same season? We have a guy who can do that. Pretty awesome.

 

[Neuromancer]

IIRC, only Jordan and Giannis have won MVP and DPOY the same season? We have a guy who can do that. Pretty awesome.

Pretty sure Hakeem did as well

 

[Arguendo]

Most teams trying to win this year would not trade places with the spurs. They are 1 injury away from 35 wins.

LT means long-term.
The Spurs are not contenders this yr, they are Playoff hopefuls trying to become a winning team.
Also define "trying to win" vs contender. Sure, Sac is "trying to win" 0 chance to do so, the Bulls are trying, the Hawks are trying. Most teams "trying to win" are not actual contenders, most teams trying to would absolutely would trade everything just for Wemby.
There's like 4-8 true contenders a yr, sure most contenders wouldn't trade places cause they think their right there.
The Clippers are "trying" to win, they would absolutely trade places, the Grizz are trying to win they would 100% trade places, Indy is trying to win maybe even a contender, they would prolly trade places, etc.

 

[Arguendo]

Pretty sure Hakeem did as well

Yeah, 93'-94', something about Jordan and gambling IIRC

 

[timtonymanu]

If we go by actual contribution to the team, I think it should be.

Especially if he shows minimal improvement or zero fit to this team. It hurts my eyes everyday seeing his defenders on reddit overrate the shit out of him and say stuff that he's as important as guys like Castle and Harper or like Kawhi needed time to develop his shot. But where Jeremy is in his development, Kawhi was already at franchise player potential.

 

[Arguendo]

Most teams trying to win this year would not trade places with the spurs. They are 1 injury away from 35 wins.

Dude every team except for OKC is basically 1 injury away from 35 wins, pretty much every yr. Predict what Bos does without Tatum. Going from 61 wins to 45 would be great for them.
You have to be crazy deep and crazy balanced on D to sustain it without the guy. How many wins does Den get without Joker? Mil and Giannis? NyK and Jalen? Det and Cade? etc etc etc

 

[Shmurs]

Dude every team except for OKC is basically 1 injury away from 35 wins, pretty much every yr. Predict what Bos does without Tatum. Going from 61 wins to 45 would be great for them.
You have to be crazy deep and crazy balanced on D to sustain it without the guy. How many wins does Den get without Joker? Mil and Giannis? NyK and Jalen? Det and Cade? etc etc etc

All of those teams are deeper than the spurs and would be more resilient if their #1 went down. This was arguably the worst top to bottom roster in the league 15 months ago. its better now but our 3rd best guy is arguably not even top 100.

Spurs have graduated out of being the absolute worst but there’s a long way to go.

Long term, though - yeah you go with Vic. But I thought the original discussion was around talent and not LT success, but my reading skills aren’t great today.

 

[Splits]

Who is the first of team friendship to leave our team? I think it’s Sochan

As long as Sochan doesn't get an extension more that $15m a year until he proves he's not a negative player

 

[k....]

lol only okc would not trade rosters, and they still might. the spurs are closer to their "everything is cool cheap talent" and okc is at that the "every extension is painful" with the less durable twig center, i would the team with a first, second and 4rth pick in successive drafts and a cleanish balance sheet. okc do have more draft picks but that's diminishing returns

 

[KobesAchilles]

Dude every team except for OKC is basically 1 injury away from 35 wins, pretty much every yr. Predict what Bos does without Tatum. Going from 61 wins to 45 would be great for them.
You have to be crazy deep and crazy balanced on D to sustain it without the guy. How many wins does Den get without Joker? Mil and Giannis? NyK and Jalen? Det and Cade? etc etc etc

The difference is that those teams have showed that with their guy they are at least playoff contenders if not out right title contenders. Even with our guy we are a 35 win team.

Also the Clippers are always injured and so are the Grizzlies and they still make the playoffs. Injuries happen all the time in the NBA. Zion missed an entire season and the Pels made the playoffs and had a winning record two years ago.

Our weakness is on the wing and that’s a huge weakness to have. Tbh I would trade 3 FRPs for Siakim right now with the Pacers. Have them legit tank now that Hali is basically done as a superstar

 

[scott]

The difference is that those teams have showed that with their guy they are at least playoff contenders if not out right title contenders. Even with our guy we are a 35 win team.

Also the Clippers are always injured and so are the Grizzlies and they still make the playoffs. Injuries happen all the time in the NBA. Zion missed an entire season and the Pels made the playoffs and had a winning record two years ago.

Our weakness is on the wing and that’s a huge weakness to have. Tbh I would trade 3 FRPs for Siakim right now with the Pacers. Have them legit tank now that Hali is basically done as a superstar

Two years ago when the Pels finished 7th and made the playoffs (23-24), Zion played 70 games, tbh. He just coincidently got hurt after one play-in game. He's never played a playoff game in his career.

The season before that (22-23), he played only 29 games, the Pels finished 9th, and the Pels lost in the play-in and didn't make the playoffs.

The season before that (21-22), he missed the entire season and the Pels finished 9th (funny enough, only winning 36 games!!!), made it through the play-in (beating us along the way) and lost in the first round.

The season before that, Zion played 61 games, averaged 27ppg, was an all-star, and the Pels finished 11th in the West.

And the season before that, Zion's rookie year, he only played 24 games and the Pels finished 13th.

Honestly, seems like Zion is just kind of inconsequential.

 

[KobesAchilles]

Two years ago when the Pels finished 7th and made the playoffs (23-24), Zion played 70 games, tbh. He just coincidently got hurt after one play-in game. He's never played a playoff game in his career.

The season before that (22-23), he played only 29 games, the Pels finished 9th, and the Pels lost in the play-in and didn't make the playoffs.

The season before that (21-22), he missed the entire season and the Pels finished 9th (funny enough, only winning 36 games!!!), made it through the play-in (beating us along the way) and lost in the first round.

The season before that, Zion played 61 games, averaged 27ppg, was an all-star, and the Pels finished 11th in the West.

And the season before that, Zion's rookie year, he only played 24 games and the Pels finished 13th.

Honestly, seems like Zion is just kind of inconsequential.

Didn’t realize the man played 70 games that season. Just figured he was hurt as always. My point is though that injuries happen to main guys and some teams figure out how to atleast make the playoffs. Like the Warriors made the playoffs with Curry playing 54 games 3 years ago. Now we can’t lose the guy for the whole season. But if Wemby is hurt for 20 games hypothetically we should have the coaching and the horses to still be in the playoff mix. I mean Kawhi has been hurt every year and Lue has his team with a winning record still.

I’m not sure we are that team from a coaching perspective and a talent perspective. Any Wemby injury is going (imo) to have devastating results to our win loss record.

 

[Fabbs]

#1 goal for me 2025-26 Spurs is a healthy Wemby throughout.
2. Castle and all other players stay healthy.
3. The coaching can only improve, I'd like to see it improve as much as realistically possible.
4. Playoffs are a lock if 1 2 3 happens.

 

[Exstatic]

A lot of this is going to fall on Mitch and the coaching staff. Assuming good health, it's up to them whether this is going to be another 30-win season or a 45-win season.

Is he going to wax nostalgic about the old crew (Vassell, Keldon, Sochan, etc.) and insist keeping them in the rotation because "they've been around"? Just a reminder...these are the same players who led us to three tanking seasons.

Or will he really embrace the new blood (Harper, Carter, Kornet, Olynyk, Barnes) and build a functional team without giving out participation trophies or worrying about the old crew getting their feelings hurt because they lost playing time?

Pop is gone. Time for a new era, and that means time for a new approach to building the team.

Also you signature

A huge part of the tank was coaching. These guys were playing their guts out,and Pop would start the 4th with Malaki running the point, and that was game over. People thought he was senile, but it was intentional. Teams got fined large amounts for sitting guys, but Pop playing unsuitable players out of position was probably more effective, and less obvious, and led directly to lottery position for Wemby and Castle.

 

[Exstatic]

I really hope Mitch and Sweeney and co have free reign to coach how they want. I truly feel like the last 5-7 years, even in the DeRozan era, Spurs underachieved and could have been a lot better had they had a coach in place that made obvious adjustments and didn't refuse to play lineups that made sense. Not to mention the terribly antiquated defensive schemes

If we had a coach that did that, we would not have Wemby, or Castle, or Harper. There are two ways to tank, but only one of them is not obvious to casuals.

 

[Neuromancer]

If we had a coach that did that, we would not have Wemby, or Castle, or Harper. There are two ways to tank, but only one of them is not obvious to casuals.

Sure. But let's not act like sucking balls was completely intentional. They intentionally tanked in 2023. I'm not convinced any other year they were actually trying to lose, they simply lost because of shitty coaching and roster construction choices. The end result doesn't justify the means

And that doesn't justify those years where Pop was trying to be too cute and refusing to play DJ/White together, playing the Forbes/Belinelli/Mills lineups extended minutes, etc. We're in a good spot now by pure luck, let's not sugarcoat it

 

[Exstatic]

Sure. But let's not act like sucking balls was completely intentional. They intentionally tanked in 2023. I'm not convinced any other year they were actually trying to lose, they simply lost because of shitty coaching and roster construction choices. The end result doesn't justify the means

You don’t think they tanked Wemby’s rookie year? That’s a take.

BTW, shitty roster construction is the top way to tank, and can 100%% be intentional.

 

[Shmurs]

I don’t think they tanked in ‘24 until after the trade deadline.

The rest of the season was earnest player development orchestrated by the worst coach/player developer in the league at that time.

 

[Neuromancer]

You don’t think they tanked Wemby’s rookie year? That’s a take.

BTW, shitty roster construction is the top way to tank, and can 100%% be intentional.

No, I think they tried to win games and failed miserably due to Pop thinking Sochan could be a PG and other shitty decisions which the sniff crew tried to excuse as tanking after the fact tbh

 

[Shmurs]

No, I think they tried to win games and failed miserably due to Pop thinking Sochan could be a PG and other shitty decisions which the sniff crew tried to excuse as tanking after the fact tbh

I don’t even understand the premise. You’re going to be in the lottery anyway and the draft is awful, where pick 3 and pick 10 were going to be rated about the same. So you’re going to kill your hyper competitive franchise player’s rookie season so you can draft a project player?

It might have just been that it was the worst players and coaches in the league that were responsible for the losing record.

 

[rjv]

even though i joined ST back in '09, i never really paid attention to how so many posters had tens of thousands of takes but, being present in the genesis of this forum, i can see now how so many of us just post the same take over and over again. can't wait for next week so we can have something new and original to post about. because i dont' really care whether or not pop, or the players, or both, were the reasons for the past couple of crappy seasons. i'm just curious to see how this roster pans out.

 

[LeBowen]

even though i joined ST back in '09, i never really paid attention to how so many posters had tens of thousands of takes but, being present in the genesis of this forum, i can see now how so many of us just post the same take over and over again. can't wait for next week so we can have something new and original to post about. because i dont' really care whether or not pop, or the players, or both, were the reasons for the past couple of crappy seasons. i'm just curious to see how this roster pans out.

I can't wait for all the overreactions after we lose a couple of preseason games.

 

[poopbox]

You don’t think they tanked Wemby’s rookie year? That’s a take.

BTW, shitty roster construction is the top way to tank, and can 100%% be intentional.

I don't think they did. I think Pop was legit senile enough to think Sochan could play point guard. 7 years from now we will find out that this is when early onset dementia kicked in. I his postgame pressers he seemed legit dumbfounded that the team was losing so much.