Player Best Guard rotation in the NBA for the next decade

[OK Computer]

I’ll say it again… Fox is going to take a pay cut to stay with this team. He’s buying in and you can tell he’s loving his teammates. I’ll even say KJ is a big part of that.

 

[scott]

How many picks is MIL adding for us to trade Castle for Giannis?

 

[STAT88]

im gonna need at least 2 unprotected to swap 21yo Castle for 31yo Giannis.

 

[spursistan]

Harper and Castle have the potential to become the best back court in the league eventually, but obviously their shooting needs to improve and Castle needs to accept that he needs to be the secondary ball handler, whether he's playing with Fox or Harper.

By not reining him in, the Spurs are enabling his commandeering.

I get this, but you are at the risk of bottling up what we just saw tonight. Castle, too, is just scratching the surface of his developmental arc (turned 21 a month ago). His big game pedigree is already getting etched: stepping up when the team's best player is out in a pivotal road game is sure marker of such quality. Truly embarrassment of backcourt riches

 

[spursistan]

I'm not breaking up the new age Ginobili-Parker backcourt for 31 yo Giannis, not when they are this close relationship-wise and more than willing to accommodate one another

https://twitter.com/x/status/1999016832695451821

 

[CrustyCoastBendFan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1998492270438527005

It's a really interesting trio in that their impact is very different. It's like a choose your character portion of a game where you either choose from fights with different balance settings.

Harper: Offensive Firecracker but weak defensively
Fox: Still offense first, but more well rounded
Castle: Defensive Powerhouse with some offensive limitations

A really nice complement to one another

I find it fascinating that these nerds shout about SAMPLE SIZE until it no longer suits them. We’re nowhere near having enough nerd data to draw any real nerd conclusions yet. Jesus this particular nerd SCREAM, "I need to touch all the grass"
I’ve never doubted that the Spurs have planned for all three of these guys to have long futures with the team. I do think it depends on winning championships. I mean, if you’re going to ask a guy like Fox to take any kind of discount, RINGS HELP. As good as Harper and Castle Looks 2029 is a long time away. If all the Harper stans and Castle fans are right about their greatness, it’s a moot point whether Fox stays or not in 2029. The way I see it we are ALL sitting PRETTY and should let things just happen.

 

[CrustyCoastBendFan]

I'm not breaking up the new age Ginobili-Parker backcourt for 31 yo Giannis, not when they are this close relationship-wise and more than ready to accommodate one another

https://twitter.com/x/status/1999016832695451821

Are we sure Castle isn’t 6'7"? Damn, he looks huge and didn’t seem any smaller than Luka at all tonight. Luka is a big boy.

 

[e78]

The way the Spurs can put constant pressure at the point of attack on offense and defense with the 3 guards is huge.

Small sample size being only 2 games so far but the opponents guards get 0 rest/down time when you have in most cases 2 of the 3 guards on the court at the same time.

Being able to pick up defense at half or even 3/4 court will be big. Especially with Wemby back.

Like its scary to think we havent really seen the final form of this team yet and those 3 guards are going to be a big part of this.

 

[Exstatic]

Chris Mannix on SI has a huge man crush on our guard rotation.

 

[bozhemoi]

Harper and Castle have the potential to become the best back court in the league eventually, but obviously their shooting needs to improve and Castle needs to accept that he needs to be the secondary ball handler, whether he's playing with Fox or Harper.

By not reining him in, the Spurs are enabling his commandeering.

Stephon Castle is way better at setting up and delivering to teammates than Fox is. That's why he's usually the lead guard in the starting rotation. Fox is a good slasher and shooter, but is more of an undersized SG compared to Castle.

 

[bozhemoi]

Also, you'll notice that when Fox drives into the lane, it's to get to the basket or a midrange. He doesn't have the size or acumen to pick out shooters quite that well. When Castle gets into the lane, there are a ton of possibilities. They're both good lobbers, but Castle is better, too. He's just stronger, has better pace, and that's why the team loves having him get into the lane early, moving the ball up quickly. Deforms the defense and gets everything going. Kick-outs, lobs, circulate. I'd say Fox is much better late clock stuff, and getting points on his own. He's looking good off-ball, which is great, but there's a reason they want the ball more in Castle's hands earlier in possessions.

 

[Exstatic]

Stephon Castle is way better at setting up and delivering to teammates than Fox is. That's why he's usually the lead guard in the starting rotation. Fox is a good slasher and shooter, but is more of an undersized SG compared to Castle.

He’s the lead guard most of the time because the other two are better catch and shoot three pointer options. That’s it. That’s the reason. It plays to his strength, breaking down the defense, and theirs.

 

[OK Computer]

Chris Mannix on SI has a huge man crush on our guard rotation.

When Fox is having an off night, one or both of Castle and Harper will step up.

When Castle is having an off night, one or both of Fox and Harper will step up.

When Harper is having an off night, one or both of Fox and Castle step up.

If all three are having a good night, it’s an easy W for the Spurs.

A dream scenario to be in for any team.

Spurs fans should stop calling it a future trio with Harper, Castle, Wemby. We should all hope that we can have four stars for this dynasty-in-the-making. Who says no to having four stars?

 

[scott]

When Fox is having an off night, one or both of Castle and Harper will step up.

When Castle is having an off night, one or both of Fox and Harper will step up.

When Harper is having an off night, one or both of Fox and Castle step up.

If all three are having a good night, it’s an easy W for the Spurs.

A dream scenario to be in for any team.

Spurs fans should stop calling it a future trio with Harper, Castle, Wemby. We should all hope that we can have four stars for this dynasty-in-the-making. Who says no to having four stars?

Such a great point, and I kind of feel the same about Barnes/Champ/Vassell with 3point shooting. We have seen some games of late where 2 of them have an off night simultaneously, but I'm not sure we've had one where all 3 are shooting blanks and it comes back to hurt us (in part because we also have the 3 guard monster to offset any damage done if the three wings are all off)

 

[OK Computer]

Such a great point, and I kind of feel the same about Barnes/Champ/Vassell with 3point shooting. We have seen some games of late where 2 of them have an off night simultaneously, but I'm not sure we've had one where all 3 are shooting blanks and it comes back to hurt us (in part because we also have the 3 guard monster to offset any damage done if the three wings are all off)

i feel like if the Thunder win the draft lottery, they’ll take Peterson over Wilson, Boozer, etc. to copy the current Spurs model.

 

[LeBowen]

During the Jazz game I couldn't help myself but feel that Castle has a significant drop-off when he's the only one of the three playmakers on the floor. When he's playing with Fox or Harper he knows there's someone else who can get the team going and doesn't really force things as much. But when he's the only playmaker on the floor, it gets rough.



While Castle obviously already has great passing vision and executes most of his ideas well, his ball security isn't on the level of natural point guards and out of all the things young player can develop, I'm a believer that natural point guards are born and Castle just doesn't look like one to me.
That isn't necessarily a bad thing because he already has legit forward size at 21 and is already an elite rim attacker with his relentless pressure, it's just that I think he'll be way closer to Jimmy Butler than Jrue Holiday trajectory.

On the other hand, Harper is obviously the best natural point guard on the team, regardless of being just a rookie. Whenever he gets the ball, he shows it and honestly games where he's parked in the corner shouldn't happen anymore. He needs to be the primary ballhandler whenever he's on the floor. Both Fox and Castle have proven they can excel in the secondary ballhandler role.

Fox has 2.26 assist/turnover ratio with 12.9 TOV%. (estimated turnovers per 100 possessions)
Castle is at 1.84 ratio with 19.6 TOV%. (yikes)
Harper is at 2.63 ratio with 12.2 TOV%.

Obviously Harper's sample size is lower and he mostly plays against benches, but he's already had enough games of elite passing and very few turnovers.
He's had just 2 bad games in that regard, in Orlando and in Vegas against OKC, everything else was honestly amazing for a 19 year old rookie.

 

[RC_Drunkford]

This was the case last season as well. He had much better numbers playing next to CP3 and Tre Jones.

He‘s a secondary ballhandler, not a primary one. And that‘s not an issue, but he should absolutely play with a PG next to him as much as possible.

 

[OK Computer]

The only thing Castle in common with Jimmy is his physicality. It’s such a bad comp and a lazy one that originated from someone a long time ago before Castle showed his ball handling, passing, vision, etc. Jimmy is more physical than your average star and he bumps people down low, and Castle obviously does that but that’s where the comparison ends.

Also, saying that Castle is not a natural point guard at THIS point is… I’m not even gonna go there smh

 

[LeBowen]

The only thing Castle in common with Jimmy is his physicality. It’s such a bad comp and a lazy one that originated from someone a long time ago before Castle showed his ball handling, passing, vision, etc. Jimmy is more physical than your average star and he bumps people down low, and Castle obviously does that but that’s where the comparison ends.

But is it?
Do you remember Chicago Butler? His paint penetration in Heat days was way more methodical and slow, but when he became a 20ppg scorer with the Bulls he did so by relentlessly attacking like Castle does. And by getting to the line a lot.

In his final 3 years with the Bulls he was at 21ppg while averaging almost 8 FTA.
Then as the years went on, he added playmaking to his game and averaged 6 assists in his 5 Heat seasons.

Obviously I'm not saying Castle is the best version of Jimmy, but he can get there.
They get into the paint, draw a lot of fouls and are capable passes while driving.
Supbar shooters and great POA defenders. Name me another all-star more similar to Castle than Butler?

As for the comparisons before Castle developed, those were just predictions Castle lived up to.

Also, saying that Castle is not a natural point guard at THIS point is… I’m not even gonna go there smh

Point guard definition in modern NBA gets stretched to it's limits.
Should I have said traditional floor general? Because Castle obviously isn't one.
While Harper obviously is.
And that isn't a bad thing, it's better for us and their long term fit.

 

[RC_Drunkford]

Name me another all-star more similar to Castle than Butler?

I think Wade is a pretty good comparison for Castle's game. Super athletic, got to the rim and the line a lot, still played SG while being a good playmaker and wasn't a volume shooter.

*edit: here's a comparison of rookie Wade at 22 years old to sophomore Castle who's 21

 

[LeBowen]

I think Wade is a pretty good comparison for Castle's game. Super athletic, got to the rim and the line a lot, still played SG while being a good playmaker and wasn't a volume shooter.

Wade was maybe even the fastest player in the league in his younger days and was guard sized.
He was a 27ppg scorer before Lebron got there and averaged almost 20 shots per game. The definition of a traditional shooting guard.
Castle will never be a player primarily known as a scorer and he's got legit wing size, unlike Wade.

Some compared Castle to a modern version of Iguodala, but I think he's already got a way more polished offensive game than Iguodala who was just an athlete.

I'm too young to remember them, but I wonder how Castle compares to historic two-way guards like Dennis Johnson or Alvin Robertson.

 

[Bopper]

I think Wade is a pretty good comparison for Castle's game. Super athletic, got to the rim and the line a lot, still played SG while being a good playmaker and wasn't a volume shooter.

*edit: here's a comparison of rookie Wade at 22 years old to sophomore Castle who's 21

View attachment 232

This is the comp that I've spoken about in my circle. It's crazy that Castle is a more sturdy version but the aggression, ball hawking, playmaking, FT creation, and "shooting" weakness is like looking in a mirror.

 

[RC_Drunkford]

Wade was maybe even the fastest player in the league in his younger days and was guard sized.
He was a 27ppg scorer before Lebron got there and averaged almost 20 shots per game. The definition of a traditional shooting guard.
Castle will never be a player primarily known as a scorer and he's got legit wing size, unlike Wade.

Some compared Castle to a modern version of Iguodala, but I think he's already got a way more polished offensive game than Iguodala who was just an athlete.

I'm too young to remember them, but I wonder how Castle compares to historic two-way guards like Dennis Johnson or Alvin Robertson.

20 shots per game, yet 8 of those 20 were at the rim and he only shot up to 3 3-pointers per game. Castle actually attempts more shots from outside than Wade did. Wade also had multiple seasons averaging 7 assists.

 

[100%Duncan]

Just for shits and giggles, would you guys do the following:

Steph and Harper for Ant? For Luka?

 

[Raven_]

again with the he's not a pg bs?