RC_Drunkford
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by the way Sochan is the 9th worst on-ball defender in the NBA right now. Opponents shoot 56% against him.
Player The Uncertainty Realm of the Improved Jumpshot of Jeremy Sochan
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CrustyCoastBendFan
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I love the back-and-forth rationalization in this thread, and then someone just drops a stat like this.
He’s simply unplayable and has been for quite some time.
Wow. But is that largely bc of his regular playing time and injury this season? I thought on the metrics he was much better last year, no?
KobesAchilles
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Well according to AI that’s all Sweeney fault. Lol.
That being said Sochan needs to demand for a trade. The second we (correctly) started playing Kelly over him, his agent should have been on the phone asking around for his next team.
Which leads me to believe that the Spurs still have an offer on the board for Sochan. Personally I hope it’s a 2 year offer in the same mold as Tre got a couple years ago, but the fact that Sochan hasn’t asked for a trade on a contract year despite not playing at all must mean something the Spurs have told him is positive for him going forward
PanameSpur
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I was talking from Sochan's pov.
Spurs are known for their patience and development program, even if a lot of us think this is a bit overrated, it's still how most of the league sees our FO.
The optics are bad for him bc teams will wonder why the Spurs quit on him despite being excited by his potential, even presenting him as part of the future core of the team.
It could be something that can't be worked on like character or IQ etc
If only we had journalists working in the SA area...
Correct Crusader
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He's just not good.
Yeah well. If you look past all of the strange infatuation with the guy from the front office all the way down to the Clan’s of the Internet…he’s just a guy who’s bad at basketball and will be disposed of. there’s no need to do anything other than the disposal.
CrustyCoastBendFan
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As far as the guy in the front office goes, was it just a phase? The year before the disaster of the 2022 three first-round picks, he chose Primo. That’s four straight picks that were complete flops. All of them had the “he's a Spurs guy” seal of approval. When you look at how bad Jeremy is at basketball—and how terrible of a person Primo is—it really makes you wonder. I guess picking in the top 4 really is just that much easier?
As for the Clan guy I keep hearing and seeing post about
It must be Love for Jeremy
The Type of love Haddaway sang about
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It's actually anger inducing how fucking catchy that goddamn song is/was.
ambchang
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That ai view would’ve made sense if KJ and Vassell are not getting time as well but they are getting time and contributing. Both were arguably worse defenders and ball watched even worse last year but they’ve adapted.
Like RC drunkford pointed out his defence has been ass this year as well. He has gotten worse at everything he was good at and not gotten better at anything he was bad at.
Like RC drunkford pointed out his defence has been ass this year as well. He has gotten worse at everything he was good at and not gotten better at anything he was bad at.
On the contrary, I think the AI view HELPS explain why Dev and Keldon are getting time. The theory is that Sweeney has de-emphasized one-on-one D in favor of positional D and sharp rotations. Dev and Keldon have never been awesome defenders (though their effort level has certainly improved this year), but they dont need to be point of attack defenders in this scheme. In contrast, Jemery is/was our "ace" when the team featured a scheme that threw good defenders at the other team's offensive engine.
PanameSpur
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I agree and would add that positional D requires focus and good bbiq/situational awareness, things that Sochan lacks. But I think that it's ultimately the cost on the other side of the court that is too costly for him.
Defense is about focus, intensity and IQ, you can get better at it, but on offense just 1 player with poor fundamentals and feeling for the game can screw everything and be exploited by the opponent.
Dev and KJ can create their own shot, shoot, penetrate and pass, Sochan can't.
No clue as to the data quality, just assessing the theory.
ginobilized
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In my very limited view, our team defense is improving. I can't say that I understand the exact themes, etc. Bringing in Sweeney has given us a new defensive identity as his approach is not Pop's approach. When this happens in any setting, corporate or b-ball, some players will adapt to the new systems and others won't. I see Harper and Bryant, to some extent, as more adaptive because they never knew the old ways which contributed solidly to losing. The higher IQ players are starting to thrive. Luke, Vassell, Fox, Champ and Castle are starting to get used to the new schemes and I've noticed Sweeney is not looking quite as angry the past few games. Sean seems to be dialing in the finer adjustments possession to possession with the team vs trying to get them to understand the concepts and looking exasperated. The extra breaks and practices probably have aided this development. The Knicks will be a great challenge as they are a better offensive team than OKC.
As it pertains to Sochan, he's just not grasping the schemes, communicating and contributing defensively like he should. The schemes are designed to dictate the shots each opponent gets. One rogue element can mess that up. Sochan is just not on the same page as everyone else. He's going to get more chances, he's gotta get with the program. Of course, offensively it's even worse by the eye test. I can see some merit in the AI Sweeney system interpretation and will be viewing through that lens for a while to see if it holds true.
As it pertains to Sochan, he's just not grasping the schemes, communicating and contributing defensively like he should. The schemes are designed to dictate the shots each opponent gets. One rogue element can mess that up. Sochan is just not on the same page as everyone else. He's going to get more chances, he's gotta get with the program. Of course, offensively it's even worse by the eye test. I can see some merit in the AI Sweeney system interpretation and will be viewing through that lens for a while to see if it holds true.
rascal
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Most at Spurs Talk wanted Sochan over Duren. Sochan won the poll on who Spurs Talk wanted to draft.
And I have zero standing when it comes to that draft, i wanted Johnny Davis (aka the next Booker).... LOL
VBM
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Pretty sure a lot of those votes happened before Chip walked.
UbikRex
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I am in the belief Spurs still like Sochan but he isn't living up to half of his value.
Problem is there isn't a rotational fit that doesn't screw up the offensive flow with his contribution on defense. He passes up shots and picks his dribble up a lot forcing everyone else to bail him out.
Sure his defense has been above average years prior but he still seems to make dumb fouls this year when he gets beat by his man, he does a hip push off to try and force the shooter to miss and gets whistled for the and 1 every time.
Problem is there isn't a rotational fit that doesn't screw up the offensive flow with his contribution on defense. He passes up shots and picks his dribble up a lot forcing everyone else to bail him out.
Sure his defense has been above average years prior but he still seems to make dumb fouls this year when he gets beat by his man, he does a hip push off to try and force the shooter to miss and gets whistled for the and 1 every time.
RC_Drunkford
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All AI is saying is that not only does Jeremy suck on offense, but he also sucks as a team defender
RC_Drunkford
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I wanted Duren or J-Dub. But yeah most people wanted Sochan
Players we have traded have done well enough with other teams. Not sure what we’d expect to get back if he was moved though.
I don’t want to keep bagging on his game that has been beat to death. What could we realistically receive back in a trade for him? Given at this point he is likely viewed as being a reclamation project by other teams. Still, even with the cases of Wesley or Cissoko we
end up seeing there can still be a butt for every saddle.
I don’t want to keep bagging on his game that has been beat to death. What could we realistically receive back in a trade for him? Given at this point he is likely viewed as being a reclamation project by other teams. Still, even with the cases of Wesley or Cissoko we
end up seeing there can still be a butt for every saddle.
ambchang
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Problem is that the AI view is talking about early rotations, where Keldon and Vassell are both known for (and still do) ball watch in not only losing track of their man, but the entire opposition team other than the guy with the ball.
Sochan's one on one defence is NOT good this year, not even close, whether team or man. Last year, he was one of the better one on one defenders on the team and is decent as a team defender. The drop off could be a change in system in which he couldn't adapt, I don't know what it really is but he has clearly regressed.
