Player The blessed howl's moving Castle of Stephon Javonte

[LeBowen]

At what point can we expect him to stop making idiotic decisions?
A lot of those dumb plays feel like personal 1v1 games he's got with his matchup trying to get the better of them.
He's supposed to be a high IQ glue guy who does what's needed, instead he looks like Westbrook out there.

He just took 19 shots, ffs.
He's at 65-178 since Christmas, 36% FG.

 

[Floyd Pac]

he’s so fucking terrible I’ve never seen a dumber player than this guy. He’s a Westbrook Derozan hybrid basically with out the midrange shooting. Whoever told this asshole he could be a point guard needs to be shot.

 

[RC_Drunkford]

Knew this will be bad as soon as we started to play Castle ball. Which basically started with the first posession of the game.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2013838969784467899

 

[Ice009]

Got outplayed by Reed Sheppard. Not happy with his game. He's not even looking like a prime Westbrook, he's playing like a post prime Westbrook .

 

[Quentin_Compson]

As bad as Castle has been and as worrying as some of his heroballing tendencies project to be in the longer run, a lot of the blame has to fall on the coaching staff: Why do they continue to run the offense mainly through Castle when it's clear that (be it one game or over a stretch of games) it results mostly in him having a high usage with low efficiency?

 

[LeBowen]

As bad as Castle has been and as worrying as some of his heroballing tendencies project to be in the longer run, a lot of the blame has to fall on the coaching staff: Why do they continue to run the offense mainly through Castle when it's clear that (be it one game or over a stretch of games) it results mostly in him having a high usage with low efficiency?

Because Castle was doing well early in the season and they think that it's all about pounding the rock.
They think Castle's issues are of young player struggling nature and not of flawed player getting figured out nature.
Meaning the entire team has to suffer while Castle cosplays as Westbrook.

The sequence when he had a good defensive possession on Amen, but then took it upon himself to score on him 1v1 on the other end would've ended up with him sitting for the rest of the game if we had an actual coach.

 

[Ice009]

As bad as Castle has been and as worrying as some of his heroballing tendencies project to be in the longer run, a lot of the blame has to fall on the coaching staff: Why do they continue to run the offense mainly through Castle when it's clear that (be it one game or over a stretch of games) it results mostly in him having a high usage with low efficiency?

No idea. I said Fox should be running it a week or two ago. Ask the coaching staff, or better yet, get those ball-less Spurs reporters to ask that question.

 

[Ice009]

Because Castle was doing well early in the season and they think that it's all about pounding the rock.
They think Castle's issues are of young player struggling nature and not of flawed player getting figured out nature.
Meaning the entire team has to suffer while Castle cosplays as Westbrook.

The sequence when he had a good defensive possession on Amen, but then took it upon himself to score on him 1v1 on the other end would've ended up with him sitting for the rest of the game if we had an actual coach.

You could be right. Looks like they're going to screw his development up if you ask me. He's looking like a poor version of Russell Westbrook on offense. I still like his tenacity on defense, but on offense, he's not even looking as good as a slightly past his prime Westbrook.

 

[scott]

Knew this will be bad as soon as we started to play Castle ball. Which basically started with the first posession of the game.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2013838969784467899

This all sums it up so perfectly.

The Spurs have spent so long trying to force a non-PG into being a PG (Primo, Sochan, now Castle) that they can't help themselves once that have actual PGs on the roster (Fox, Harper).

Acquiring and then maxing Fox to play off-ball guard is a blunder of Sacramento Kings proportions. We can still fix it by doing what is obvious to everyone not named Mitch Johnson... let your max PG play PG and let Castle be the off-ball cutter/secondary playmaker that he is.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[brazil]

This all sums it up so perfectly.

The Spurs have spent so long trying to force a non-PG into being a PG (Primo, Sochan, now Castle) that they can't help themselves once that have actual PGs on the roster (Fox, Harper).

Acquiring and then maxing Fox to play off-ball guard is a blunder of Sacramento Kings proportions. We can still fix it by doing what is obvious to everyone not named Mitch Johnson... let your max PG play PG and let Castle be the off-ball cutter/secondary playmaker that he is.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I don't disagree with anything you say but... Castle has quite impressive assists numbers even during this rough stretch, he has a deceitfull solid court vision. I "understand" Spurs staff pushing it further eventhough I hope they won't break him ala Sochan. He is TOV prone but again quite normal for a sophomore with significant usage with this kind of responsability that soon.

Regular season is also to try to figure out, Spurs are lucky to be ahead of schedule so it is maybe the rationale behind the insistence to give him the keys of the truck.

Again I am with you but I just try to understand the logic.

 

[LeBowen]

I don't disagree with anything you say but... Castle has quite impressive assists numbers even during this rough stretch, he has a deceitfull solid court vision. I "understand" Spurs staff pushing it further eventhough I hope they won't break him ala Sochan. He is TOV prone but again quite normal for a sophomore with significant usage with this kind of responsability that soon.

Regular season is also to try to figure out, Spurs are lucky to be ahead of schedule so it is maybe the rationale behind the insistence to give him the keys of the truck.

Again I am with you but I just try to understand the logic.

The logic would be somewhat undestandable if Mitch wasn't actively sabotaging Harper by limiting his minutes and playing him off the ball in a lot of lineups.
Combine Castle's usage with him being the POA defender and he probably has the highest workload out of any perimeter player in the league.
No other primary ballhandler that's there to do more than just bring the ball up also defends the ball, I guess maybe Suggs, but his usage is way lower.

Having young players through something that's obviously not working isn't a good developmental path, imo.
It's just convinient because it enables tanking without the league being on your ass for resting players.
You can't give Fox a 30% max and then reduce him to an off the ball role, what's the point of that?

Our 2nd pick that has shown legit star upside is 9th in mpg, what are we even talking about?
Castle has been struggling a lot over the past month, but he's playing at least 33mpg in every single game since Devin went down. Other than blowouts, obviously.
Meanwhile, Harper is still at 21mpg and wasn't allowed to play through his slump like Castle was.
And it's not like spacing without Devin is an excuse since Castle isn't any better than Harper in that regard.

Our record is great, but only because our clutch record is great.
Then we have to ask ourselves is our clutch record great because of coaching in the clutch or because Fox and Wemby won us a lot of games by taking over in the final minutes?


NBA's official data says Castle is 35-106, 33% on standstill c&s jumpshots.
He's 1-20 on pull up 3s.

Is it that fucking hard to stick him in a corner as a c&s/dunker every once in a while?

 

[scott]

I don't disagree with anything you say but... Castle has quite impressive assists numbers even during this rough stretch, he has a deceitfull solid court vision. I "understand" Spurs staff pushing it further eventhough I hope they won't break him ala Sochan. He is TOV prone but again quite normal for a sophomore with significant usage with this kind of responsability that soon.

Regular season is also to try to figure out, Spurs are lucky to be ahead of schedule so it is maybe the rationale behind the insistence to give him the keys of the truck.

Again I am with you but I just try to understand the logic.

Yeah, it's an interesting conundrum that I think is also captured in that AST% v TOV% on drive chart, where Castle is an extreme outlier in the bottom right quadrant with Russell Westbrook of all people. Extremely High AST% coupled with Extremely High TOV% is such a rare combination that it is kind of hard to draw any conclusions of what it means. It's funny that Russ is the only other guy who is an extreme outlier like that since Russ himself is both a borderline/likely HOFer but also a guy no one necessarily wants

 

[scott]

And also, for the record, I'll also state that I wouldn't mind trying to develop Castle into a PG by force if not for the fact we gave up draft capital and a max contract to Fox and drafted Dylan Harper. It would be one thing if we were still searching for our PG, but there is just no need for this.

I don't know if it is my pro-Fox bias, but getting De'Aaron and then forcing him to be an off-ball SG is just stupid. If we were going to do that, I'd rather we traded for Lauri instead. Castle/Vassell/Champ/Lauri/Vic would have been awesome and fit Castle-as-the-PG way better. And I don't want anyone to get it twisted... I still like the concept of the 3-guard rotation and Fox + Steph... I just want Fox to play PG and Steph to play the 3 because... and you know it's coming...

Castle is a 3.

 

[LeBowen]

Castle is a 3.

The issue is that too many fans correlate the number of assists with point guard play.
Jalen Johnson is averaging 8 assists in Atlanta and they still look like shit without an actual point guard.

I don't know if it is my pro-Fox bias, but getting De'Aaron and then forcing him to be an off-ball SG is just stupid.

It's like hiring someone to be the store manager, then telling them to stack boxes in the warehouse...while keeping their manager salary.
With the owner's kid getting the store manager job.

 

[scott]

The issue is that too many fans correlate the number of assists with point guard play.
Jalen Johnson is averaging 8 assists in Atlanta and they still look like shit without an actual point guard.

Jalen Johnson is a point guard, obviously. He's not as good as the best point guard in the league though, Nikola Jokic.

 

[brazil]

Yeah, it's an interesting conundrum that I think is also captured in that AST% v TOV% on drive chart, where Castle is an extreme outlier in the bottom right quadrant with Russell Westbrook of all people. Extremely High AST% coupled with Extremely High TOV% is such a rare combination that it is kind of hard to draw any conclusions of what it means. It's funny that Russ is the only other guy who is an extreme outlier like that since Russ himself is both a borderline/likely HOFer but also a guy no one necessarily wants

Castle TOVs seem to be inexperience rather than reckless ala Russ, Castle turns over a lot on his drives, dribbling in traffic not so much on ill passes everywhere because of tunnel vision. but let's hope he won't develop in a russ 2.0

 

[brazil]

And also, for the record, I'll also state that I wouldn't mind trying to develop Castle into a PG by force if not for the fact we gave up draft capital and a max contract to Fox and drafted Dylan Harper. It would be one thing if we were still searching for our PG, but there is just no need for this.

I don't know if it is my pro-Fox bias, but getting De'Aaron and then forcing him to be an off-ball SG is just stupid. If we were going to do that, I'd rather we traded for Lauri instead. Castle/Vassell/Champ/Lauri/Vic would have been awesome and fit Castle-as-the-PG way better. And I don't want anyone to get it twisted... I still like the concept of the 3-guard rotation and Fox + Steph... I just want Fox to play PG and Steph to play the 3 because... and you know it's coming...

Castle is a 3.

Just to stir the point... Fox is not a traditional PG either, he is more of a scoring PG ala Tony tbh... looking at their pass tov ratio they are quite close. Nothing wrong with that and Fox can also work as a 3 as showed during a stretch of very good games of Castle.

The Spurs may see Castle as a potential better passer to play P&R with Victor and to kick to open shooters than Fox thus they are trying.

As the end we will have a better ideia at the end of RS near POs time, they may then switch and let Fox be the PG.

 

[Blizzardwizard]

you do not have to "let them crash the car".

if your dumbass 21-year-old is constantly veering into the opposite lane and oncoming traffic you take the fucking wheel.

then if they keep driving recklessly the law takes their license away and you sell the car you bought for them.

you don't say "well growing pains i guess. gotta let the kid figure things out on their own!" while ignoring the consequences for everybody else on the road.

 

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't disagree with anything you say but... Castle has quite impressive assists numbers even during this rough stretch, he has a deceitfull solid court vision. I "understand" Spurs staff pushing it further eventhough I hope they won't break him ala Sochan. He is TOV prone but again quite normal for a sophomore with significant usage with this kind of responsability that soon.

Regular season is also to try to figure out, Spurs are lucky to be ahead of schedule so it is maybe the rationale behind the insistence to give him the keys of the truck.

Again I am with you but I just try to understand the logic.

Castle had 10 assists against the Bucks when Fox was having way higher usage than him. He doesn't have to be the main ballhandler all the time to make plays for others.

 

[RC_Drunkford]

And also, for the record, I'll also state that I wouldn't mind trying to develop Castle into a PG by force if not for the fact we gave up draft capital and a max contract to Fox and drafted Dylan Harper. It would be one thing if we were still searching for our PG, but there is just no need for this.

I don't know if it is my pro-Fox bias, but getting De'Aaron and then forcing him to be an off-ball SG is just stupid. If we were going to do that, I'd rather we traded for Lauri instead. Castle/Vassell/Champ/Lauri/Vic would have been awesome and fit Castle-as-the-PG way better. And I don't want anyone to get it twisted... I still like the concept of the 3-guard rotation and Fox + Steph... I just want Fox to play PG and Steph to play the 3 because... and you know it's coming...

Castle is a 3.

Fox is a 2

 

[brazil]

Castle had 10 assists against the Bucks when Fox was having way higher usage than him. He doesn't have to be the main ballhandler all the time to make plays for others.

I'm with you, I'd prefer having a vet all star handling the ball, I'm just trying to understand Spurs logic.. they may have other reasons like player development or they see Castle as a potential pass first PG or who knows what

 

[scott]

Just to stir the point... Fox is not a traditional PG either, he is more of a scoring PG ala Tony tbh... looking at their pass tov ratio they are quite close. Nothing wrong with that and Fox can also work as a 3 as showed during a stretch of very good games of Castle.

The Spurs may see Castle as a potential better passer to play P&R with Victor and to kick to open shooters than Fox thus they are trying.

As the end we will have a better ideia at the end of RS near POs time, they may then switch and let Fox be the PG.

It's a good point and to me it gets to the heart of this question of "what does it mean to be a PG?"

Like LeBowen mentioned, I think it's easy for casual fans to see the box score and assume the guy with the assists is the PG, when we know that's not always the case. Honestly I don't even care about the PG label, and I'm happy to just call them all guards... but for the Spurs right now, in particular, "PG" means I want Fox or Harper bringing the ball up and being the primary initiator. I think Castle can still dish out plenty of assists as the secondary ball handler, being an off ball cutter, etc. That Bucks game that RC points out is a great example.

I just think that plays best to the strengths of Fox, Harper and Castle while limiting their weaknesses. Right now we seem to be playing into all of their weaknesses... Castle drives into traffic where he either turns it over or... kicks it out to Fox for a C&S 3-pointer... yuck!

 

[LeBowen]

It's a good point and to me it gets to the heart of this question of "what does it mean to be a PG?"

Like LeBowen mentioned, I think it's easy for casual fans to see the box score and assume the guy with the assists is the PG, when we know that's not always the case. Honestly I don't even care about the PG label, and I'm happy to just call them all guards... but for the Spurs right now, in particular, "PG" means I want Fox or Harper bringing the ball up and being the primary initiator. I think Castle can still dish out plenty of assists as the secondary ball handler, being an off ball cutter, etc. That Bucks game that RC points out is a great example.

I just think that plays best to the strengths of Fox, Harper and Castle while limiting their weaknesses. Right now we seem to be playing into all of their weaknesses... Castle drives into traffic where he either turns it over or... kicks it out to Fox for a C&S 3-pointer... yuck!

I feel like a lot of Castle's good play early in the season came from getting the ball on the move and even after off ball screens.
The same way you screen for a shooter, you screen for Castle to have more space to operate and get a running start.

His PNR from a standstill won't be effective as long as he doesn't have a reliable jumpshot. Even if it's just midrange.

Meanwhile Fox's biggest advantage is his speed in the open court and instant acceleration, catching the defense unprepared.
When he gets the ball after Castle brings it up and after the defense is already set, that opportunity is gone.

 

[Bruno]

A telling stat:
Fox usage without Castle on the court (651 min): 28.9%
Fox usage with Castle on the court (484 min): 21.9%

A 28.9% usage is about what he did with Kings.
Fox is clearly taking a step back to give more touches to Castle.

I'm quite convinced that the FO Mitch are viewing this season as another development year. Spurs might be 30-14 and be the second seed, but they aren't trying to play the most efficient basketball possible. Developing the young players is the main priority.

 

[DTW]

you do not have to "let them crash the car".

if your dumbass 21-year-old is constantly veering into the opposite lane and oncoming traffic you take the fucking wheel.

then if they keep driving recklessly the law takes their license taken away and you sell the car you bought for them.

you don't say "well growing pains i guess. gotta let the kid figure things out on their own!" while ignoring the consequences for everybody else on the road.

Well said. This isn't 3 seasons ago, before they had Wembanyama, Fox and Harper, where if Castle was on the team then, it'd have made sense to have him playing the role he is.

On this team, he should be playing a more complementary role to the superior and higher upside players. Instead they're catering to his bad habits, which will only become tougher to break going forward.

I'm quite convinced that the FO Mitch are viewing this season as another development year. Spurs might be 30-14 and be the second seed, but they aren't trying to play the most efficient basketball possible. Developing the young players is the main priority.

Then why burn any assets on Fox in the first place? Once they did, why do so for Harper then too? Odds are the two will never fit well together, so if the plan was for it to be the Castle show, they could have taken Edgecombe or Knueppel, plus additional assets for moving down.