Player The blessed howl's moving Castle of Stephon Javonte

Worst game in 3 months last night. After Wemby, we go as far as Castle takes us, tbh.
 
spursistan said:
Worst game in 3 months last night. After Wemby, we go as far as Castle takes us, tbh.
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Agree. Denver game was a chance for him, Fox, and Harper to put the team on their shoulders and give them some confidence in a big game beyond Wemby.
 
I am not sure Castle is as important as everyone makes him out to be. Don't get me wrong, he is great, love him, fantastic defender, can absolutely will the team to baskets, and has that steady, calm demeanour of a vet at such a tender age. That said, both Fox and Harper are both very capable creators in their own right, and the advantage of having all three is that if one, or even two, is/are no playing well, the remaining one(s) can step up.

Vs. the Nugs, all three didn't play all that well, and we had an embarrassing loss to their 3rd stringers, but one game does not a season make. The overall trend is that the King Ghidorah model works well against most teams. The issue with Denver is that they are a big team that can shoot. They out rebound us, and at the same time can draw Wemby outside the paint. With Jokic, they also can whip the ball around and off set of defensive rotations.
 
ambchang said:
I am not sure Castle is as important as everyone makes him out to be. Don't get me wrong, he is great, love him, fantastic defender, can absolutely will the team to baskets, and has that steady, calm demeanour of a vet at such a tender age. That said, both Fox and Harper are both very capable creators in their own right, and the advantage of having all three is that if one, or even two, is/are no playing well, the remaining one(s) can step up.

Vs. the Nugs, all three didn't play all that well, and we had an embarrassing loss to their 3rd stringers, but one game does not a season make. The overall trend is that the King Ghidorah model works well against most teams. The issue with Denver is that they are a big team that can shoot. They out rebound us, and at the same time can draw Wemby outside the paint. With Jokic, they also can whip the ball around and off set of defensive rotations.
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He's definitely the second most important player on the team because of his defense.
While we have other good perimeter defenders, noone is even close to Castle right now.
We can make up for his offense fairly easy, but I don't want to see us defend Edwards/Murray/SGA without Castle.

He's far from a finished product on offense, but noone has a bigger load in the entire league.
He's at 17ppg and 7 assists, let's say he directly adds 25ppg every game.
Find me another primary ballhandler in the league that generates 25ppg and is also a point of attack defender on most possessions.
 
LeBowen said:
He's definitely the second most important player on the team because of his defense.
While we have other good perimeter defenders, noone is even close to Castle right now.
We can make up for his offense fairly easy, but I don't want to see us defend Edwards/Murray/SGA without Castle.

He's far from a finished product on offense, but noone has a bigger load in the entire league.
He's at 17ppg and 7 assists, let's say he directly adds 25ppg every game.
Find me another primary ballhandler in the league that generates 25ppg and is also a point of attack defender on most possessions.
Click to expand...
Again, not saying Castle is not important, because he clearly is, but I am not ready to say the Spurs go as far as Castle can take us. CB can help somewhat as a PoA defender in short stints (like the Cades and the bigger leads), Harper is very good on defence as well. Yes, Castle is the best on our team, but I am not ready to say he is irreplaceably good (as in when he has a bad stretch we are doomed, not in the sense of he is out for the entire series or is traded away) that without him being consistently at the top of his game, we would not go far in the playoffs.

As for the the players, SGA is very good defensively and is the main ballhandler, Cade is a strong defender. Derrick White is of course another option. Scottie Barnes. I think NAWs defence dropped off this year but I think he is still pretty good. I think Amen likely generates about 25ppg or so a game as well.
 
ambchang said:
Again, not saying Castle is not important, because he clearly is, but I am not ready to say the Spurs go as far as Castle can take us.
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The Spurs go as far as Wemby takes us.
I'm just saying that out of all the perimeter players on the roster, Castle's defense is the most difficult to make up for if he's not playing.
Fox is clearly the second best player on offense, but we have enough firepower to manage without him.

CB can help somewhat as a PoA defender in short stints (like the Cades and the bigger leads), Harper is very good on defence as well. Yes, Castle is the best on our team, but I am not ready to say he is irreplaceably good (as in when he has a bad stretch we are doomed, not in the sense of he is out for the entire series or is traded away) that without him being consistently at the top of his game, we would not go far in the playoffs.
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Short stints are not the same as playing POA for 35 minuntes every game.
We wouldn't be doomed, but our task would be way more difficult without Castle.

As for the the players, SGA is very good defensively and is the main ballhandler, Cade is a strong defender. Derrick White is of course another option. Scottie Barnes. I think NAWs defence dropped off this year but I think he is still pretty good. I think Amen likely generates about 25ppg or so a game as well.
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I didn't say there aren't any other great two-way ballhandlers, I just said they don't play POA most of the time.
SGA and Cade don't. Derrick's offensive role is lesser than Castle's and Brown usually guards wings, while Castle also takes those assignments.
For example if Celtics played the Blazers, Avdija would be guarded by Brown, not White. Not the case for us, Castle will guard Avdija.
 
ambchang said:
I am not sure Castle is as important as everyone makes him out to be. Don't get me wrong, he is great, love him, fantastic defender, can absolutely will the team to baskets, and has that steady, calm demeanour of a vet at such a tender age. That said, both Fox and Harper are both very capable creators in their own right, and the advantage of having all three is that if one, or even two, is/are no playing well, the remaining one(s) can step up.

Vs. the Nugs, all three didn't play all that well, and we had an embarrassing loss to their 3rd stringers, but one game does not a season make. The overall trend is that the King Ghidorah model works well against most teams. The issue with Denver is that they are a big team that can shoot. They out rebound us, and at the same time can draw Wemby outside the paint. With Jokic, they also can whip the ball around and off set of defensive rotations.
Click to expand...
Something that hasn't been talked about in the Spurs v Nuggets conversation, that I think it a pretty damn big deal...

In the one game Wemby played, we outrebounded them 50-44.

In the games without Wemby:

11/28 (W) we got outrebounded 35-44... needed an all time performance from Dev to win
3/12 (L) we outrebounded them 49-47... had the game under control and faltered at the end
4/14 (L) we got outrebounded 58-45... got our asses handed to us

I think the rebounding is pretty critical in that matchup, but Wemby (and to a lesser extent, Korndog) completely change the face of that battle.
 
scott said:
Something that hasn't been talked about in the Spurs v Nuggets conversation, that I think it a pretty damn big deal...

In the one game Wemby played, we outrebounded them 50-44.

In the games without Wemby:

11/28 (W) we got outrebounded 35-44... needed an all time performance from Dev to win
3/12 (L) we outrebounded them 49-47... had the game under control and faltered at the end
4/14 (L) we got outrebounded 58-45... got our asses handed to us

I think the rebounding is pretty critical in that matchup, but Wemby (and to a lesser extent, Korndog) completely change the face of that battle.
Click to expand...
Further to that, spurs are her best defensive rebounding team this year, and we have to man the defensive boards, not only to stop their second chances, but to kick start our fast breaks as the nuggets are one of the slowest teams out there. This is the one single weakness of jokics game and we have to capitalize on it.
 
LeBowen said:
He's definitely the second most important player on the team because of his defense.
While we have other good perimeter defenders, noone is even close to Castle right now.
We can make up for his offense fairly easy, but I don't want to see us defend Edwards/Murray/SGA without Castle.

He's far from a finished product on offense, but noone has a bigger load in the entire league.
He's at 17ppg and 7 assists, let's say he directly adds 25ppg every game.
Find me another primary ballhandler in the league that generates 25ppg and is also a point of attack defender on most possessions.
Click to expand...
Castle wont average 25ppg while wemby is on the team.tbh
 
Bill Simmons already mentioning him as all 3rd team material (since some players don't qualify).

Regarding his extention, we should hope, he doesn't get it this or next year, right?
 
so, for it to count toward the rookie extension max... you either have to be all-nba in 2 of the last 3 years, or just in the season immediately preceeding the extension

basically, if Castle makes all-nba this year and next year, he will have access to the "rose rule "money regardless of what happens in year 4

but if Castle doesnt make the team this year, then whether or not he makes it in year 3 doesnt matter at all, and it will simply come down to whether or not he gets there in year 4


similarly, it doesnt really matter that wemby will be getting all-nba and DPOY this year. it will come down to whether he does so next year
 
spurraider21 said:
so, for it to count toward the rookie extension max... you either have to be all-nba in 2 of the last 3 years, or just in the season immediately preceeding the extension

basically, if Castle makes all-nba this year and next year, he will have access to the "rose rule "money regardless of what happens in year 4

but if Castle doesnt make the team this year, then whether or not he makes it in year 3 doesnt matter at all, and it will simply come down to whether or not he gets there in year 4


similarly, it doesnt really matter that wemby will be getting all-nba and DPOY this year. it will come down to whether he does so next year
Click to expand...
I'm glad at least two of us understand this
:st-lol:
 
With Luka and Cade now eligible, I think any slim hopes for Castle making 3rd team are out the window. Second Team All Defense seems in play though... at least that's what the handful of national talking heads I listen to have me convinced of
 
scott said:
With Luka and Cade now eligible, I think any slim hopes for Castle making 3rd team are out the window. Second Team All Defense seems in play though... at least that's what the handful of national talking heads I listen to have me convinced of
Click to expand...
i never thought he had a shot at all-nba even if all those guys were ineligible, but second team all-defense seems more likely than not
 
frenchfred said:
they are going in in the video but I'm not sure why CB and Steph are shooting 3 feet behind the arc.
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Steph shooting those elbow threes from 3 feet behind the line drove me nuts all season. But it was consistent enough that it has to be a deliberate coaching decision and this coaching staff has earned the benefit of the doubt.

I hadn't looked up Steph's shot chart before, but he was amazing from the right corner (12 of 24) and putrid from the left corner (3 of 24). I think he would be a great player to put in the right corner sometimes as an extended dunker spot since he has to be closed out on and has the athleticism to get to the rim in a flash, even from the corner.

He was just under 36% from both the left and right elbows, and only 27.8% from straight away. Too bad this site doesn't break down catch and shoot versus off the dribble.
 
Seventyniner said:
Steph shooting those elbow threes from 3 feet behind the line drove me nuts all season. But it was consistent enough that it has to be a deliberate coaching decision and this coaching staff has earned the benefit of the doubt.

I hadn't looked up Steph's shot chart before, but he was amazing from the right corner (12 of 24) and putrid from the left corner (3 of 24). I think he would be a great player to put in the right corner sometimes as an extended dunker spot since he has to be closed out on and has the athleticism to get to the rim in a flash, even from the corner.

He was just under 36% from both the left and right elbows, and only 27.8% from straight away. Too bad this site doesn't break down catch and shoot versus off the dribble.
Click to expand...
I, too, would be curious about more breakdowns with catch and shoot %. On the few occasions I've seen percentages for our players, we actually look pretty damn solid. It's off the dribble 3 point shot-making that we seem to suck at. And that doesn't need to be a big part of a successful team, considering how easily we get into the paint to generate high quality 3 pt looks, whether thru Vic's gravity or just our 3-headed Point Ghidora.

There are few more satisfying combo moves than the Vic block -> transition 3 off the dribble tho. Ngl.
 
bench castle stupid ass till he starts making outside shots.Back to back games throwing the game away.
Try harper in the starting lineup to upgrade our shooting.Scoot outplaying his ass.
 
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