Starting power forward ideas in the short and long term

[SpursBills]

(Fox/Harper/Castle)-Wembanyama locks down the 1-2-5 slots. Harrison Barnes turns 34 in May and will likely age gracefully into a bench mentor role. We've discussed the starting 4 at nauseum, but I guess this thread will hopefully consolidate the discussion.

What is your order of priority for skills that a starting 4 should have? What skills are you willing to sacrifice assuming there's no perfect prospect?
- Rebounding
- Perimeter switchability
- Big wing iso defense (for Tatums, Lukas, Cooper Flaggs, etc.)
- Shooting
- Passing / connectivity

Carter Bryant
1. Is Carter Bryant a future 4 in the Harper-Castle-Wemby lineup? He's technically 6'8" in shoes with a 7' wingspan, so this essentially makes him the same size as Barnes. Does he have enough size to play next to any wing (6'5-6'8), or does he have to have a bigger wing (6'7-6'8") who's a plus rebounder next to him? In college he was a strong rebounder for a wing, but a weak rebounder for a forward. Is Carter Bryant actually the future 3 and you need an even bigger 6'9-6'11 guy next to him given how thin Wemby is?
2. Assuming he develops well, when should Carter Bryant be expected to assume his position as the starting 4? He looks at least 2 years away to me - spot minutes this season, regular rotation in 26/27 (age 21), possible starter 27/28-28-29 (age 22-23). Guys like Shawn Marion, Danny Green, and Shane Battier, some of Bryant's most optimistic outcomes, came into the league later and started around age 23-24.

If we assume that Carter Bryant isn't going to be a starting quality player for at least 2 seasons (or even more), Barnes is probably bench-quality next season, and the Spurs' contention window starts next season, what options are there for the 1-2 years ?

Trades
PJ Washington - I love the idea of PJ as much as anyone else. He rebounds, he can guard decently on the perimeter, his iso defense is good, he can shoot, all great. That being said, what is the maximum price you're willing to pay to get him? As weird as it sounds, I think Dallas would rather trade Anthony Davis than PJ Washington because of contract, durability, etc and PJ becomes even more important to keep since Lively's health is now in question. If the Spurs made a play for him, Dallas probably includes a division rival tax as well - are you willing to pay ATL 26/SA '28/DAL '30 swap for him?

Santi Aldama - still interested? Memphis might be imploding, but is he gettable with just a mid-late first rounder?

Jabari Smith Jr - no chance Houston trades him to a division rival

Free Agency
Tobias Harris - is this guy good enough to bridge the gap between Barnes' dropoff and Carter Bryant's rise? He'll be 34 next season as well and his shooting is pretty mediocre, but his defense has been significantly better than Barnes. Making 25 million this year, is he worth 2 years at MLE and would he accept that? I would imagine Detroit would want to retain him

John Collins - here we go again

Rui Hachimura - haven't followed him in the last several years, but he probably looks better than he is just because of the Luka / LeBron bump

Dean Wade - discussed before, I really like him, think he's a good defender who's versatile and a great role player, having an anomalous bad year from 3. The question is if he's actually good enough to be a full time starter.

Porzingis

Draft
Plenty of options - Yaxel, Haugh, Steinbach, Cenac, etc.
Only Yaxel would be theoretically ready to step into a rotation role in the next 1-2 years, but even then not sure if he'd be good enough to start

 

[BacktoBasics]

Aldama would be amazing. Rui isn’t getting traded to a playoff team in the West unless they overpay.

Bagley might be an interesting yet affordable option.

 

[ginobilized]

I'd throw Saddiq Bey into the mix after further looking at his game. He'd be a great 3&D option with some muscle. The Spurs scouted him heavily in 2020 and liked his shooting, smarts and toughness, allegedly.

 

[Guru of Nothing]

Not that we have to have one, but I'd love to see a legit 6'11" PF on the roster - one younger and more athletic than Olynyk, as a floor. I favor acquiring through the draft, mainly to reduce salary cap pressure.

I like Yaxel, and a big fan of his teammate Aday Mara (7'3") - draft Mara and Wemby can be our PF.

Nate Ament (Tenn Fresh) would be the dream - a 6'11" mini-me version of Wemby, but it's very unikely the Spurs will have a shot at him.

 

[Ice009]

I'd throw Saddiq Bey into the mix after further looking at his game. He'd be a great 3&D option with some muscle. The Spurs scouted him heavily in 2020 and liked his shooting, smarts and toughness, allegedly.

I was interested in getting him around the time he was traded to Washington. If the Spurs liked him that much, I wonder if they tried to trade for him.

 

[scott]

I like how you asked how we would prioritize skills. I'd rather focus on that than naming the same guys over and over... so here is how I would rank those PF skills that you identified.

1. Shooting
2. Rebounding
.
.
.
.
3a. Big wing ISO defense
3b. Perimeter switchability
3c. Passing/connectivity

I want to note, that a 6'10" guy with the first three of these things is likely a max player, which is why I kind of have the first two separate from the rest and I acknowledge that anything else is kind of a bonus skill.

I'm willing to sacrifice on defense and have a Temu Lauri Markkanen at the 4 because I have Wemby and/or Luke behind him to offer rim protection, and I have good perimeter defenders in Castle, and I hope Harper, and Devin seems to be showing some of what we saw early from him. I need this guy to be strong enough to not get bulled over in the paint with just enough quickness to stay in front of our man. Basically, if Keldon was 3 inches taller, he'd be perfect (though I don't love his 3-ball... but it's good enough).

 

[Correct Crusader]

Not that we have to have one, but I'd love to see a legit 6'11" PF on the roster - one younger and more athletic than Olynyk, as a floor. I favor acquiring through the draft, mainly to reduce salary cap pressure.

I like Yaxel, and a big fan of his teammate Aday Mara (7'3") - draft Mara and Wemby can be our PF.

Nate Ament (Tenn Fresh) would be the dream - a 6'11" mini-me version of Wemby, but it's very unikely the Spurs will have a shot at him.

I wouldn't be surprised if Nate fell. He's not showing much against the good teams in college so far.

 

[Correct Crusader]

Kuminga maybe?

 

[RC_Drunkford]

Kuminga maybe?

Hell no

 

[Arguendo]

Kuminga maybe?

No thanks

 

[Raven_]

mitch doesn't want to have a pf. He sees our offensive scheme being an eternal pg penetration set, that ends with a layup or a kickout to the 3point line, so a normal pf is useless.

 

[LeBowen]

CB had 4 rebounds in 8:41.
Barnes had 1 in 18:14.

Sochan had 2 in 15:38.
He needs to be put out of his misery, he was by far the worst player even against the Wizards.

 

[Quentin_Compson]

Dean Wade is tempting, but he has never played close to starter minutes, and he has played more than 60 games only once in his career so far. I don't think he is a solution if you are looking for a starting 5 type of player.

 

[CGD]

I think they’ll give Carter a shot at it as soon as next season, and then draft for this position this summer.

 

[Area 51.247]

I like how you asked how we would prioritize skills. I'd rather focus on that than naming the same guys over and over... so here is how I would rank those PF skills that you identified.

1. Shooting
2. Rebounding
.
.
.
.
3a. Big wing ISO defense
3b. Perimeter switchability
3c. Passing/connectivity

I want to note, that a 6'10" guy with the first three of these things is likely a max player, which is why I kind of have the first two separate from the rest and I acknowledge that anything else is kind of a bonus skill.

Along with skills, what physical and mental attributes are you rating and want to see?

That 1-2-5 group is a fast, attacking hydra both on offense and defense: speed, agility, and processing speed would be high on my list. Although they're 5's, an Edey or Clingan type wouldn't be as easy to fit. CB may grow into that role with Barnes' and KO's mentorship.

 

[BacktoBasics]

I think they’ll give Carter a shot at it as soon as next season, and then draft for this position this summer.

I don’t think drafting for those needs would have an ill effect on Carter. It sure seems he’s primed to fit the archetype we need.

Seems he’ll have every opportunity to show a leap into his second season.

If he improves even half as much as castle did going into his second season he could be the steal of the draft.

 

[SpurSpike]

Oscar Wembanyama is 6'8" and is eligible to declare in this years draft... projected 2nd round pick as of now.

 

[scott]

Along with skills, what physical and mental attributes are you rating and want to see?

That 1-2-5 group is a fast, attacking hydra both on offense and defense: speed, agility, and processing speed would be high on my list. Although they're 5's, an Edey or Clingan type wouldn't be as easy to fit. CB may grow into that role with Barnes' and KO's mentorship.

Funny enough, I'd value mental attributes that Keldon also has: unafraid to muck it up in the paint and fight for boards against bigger players, and unafraid to take a shot (I can do without Keldon's occasional tunnel vision though). From both a skill and a mental perspective... Keldon is the right kind of guy, he's just too damn short.

 

[OK Computer]

I maintain that Onyeke Okongwu would probably be the best, more realistic fit (ideal fit would be Bam Adebayo).

You’re not looking for a specialist for this position. Otherwise, you will live and die by what they’re skilled at - as we’re seeing with Barnes. You need a guy that can do multiple good things, along with being fine in a role where they’re not featured and is willing to do the dirty work.

 

[LeBowen]

I maintain that Onyeke Okongwu would probably be the best, more realistic fit.

Hawks probably have no interest in trading him even if we give them back both their picks.

(ideal fit would be Bam Adebayo)

For two seasons before cap issues start.

 

[OK Computer]

Hawks probably have no interest in trading him even if we give them back both their picks.


For two seasons before cap issues start.

For a guy that’s only started for them for a little over half of their games? Why would he be untouchable? They’re going to be desperate to build around Jalen Johnson. Having an unsuccessful season this year is key to make them believe they need to make big moves.

 

[LeBowen]

For a guy that’s only started for them for a little over half of their games? Why would he be untouchable? They’re going to be desperate to build around Jalen Johnson. Having an unsuccessful season this year is key to make them believe they need to make big moves.

Harper hasn't started for us yet.
Okongwu is at 31mpg and with Porzingis going down with that mysterious illness yet again, he's their only legit big.
He's their starter going forward and is on a bargain contract.

Since they own NOLA and MIL picks, they don't really have an incentive to tank and waste seasons in uncompetitive East with so many teams they can't outtank.

 

[OK Computer]

Harper hasn't started for us yet.
Okongwu is at 31mpg and with Porzingis going down with that mysterious illness yet again, he's their only legit big.
He's their starter going forward and is on a bargain contract.

Since they own NOLA and MIL picks, they don't really have an incentive to tank and waste seasons in uncompetitive East with so many teams they can't outtank.

I wasn’t necessarily implying they’d tank if they take our picks. More and more teams are relying on fresh blood to lead the way. They could use those picks the same way as trading for a veteran. The outlook of a team can change almost instantly when new faces are introduced. Or, they could repackage those picks for someone else (Giannis).

 

[LeBowen]

I wasn’t necessarily implying they’d tank if they take our picks. More and more teams are relying on fresh blood to lead the way. They could use those picks the same way as trading for a veteran. The outlook of a team can change almost instantly when new faces are introduced. Or, they could repackage those picks for someone else (Giannis).

I think their path to success is clear.
Get the best offer for Trae and hope for a top5 pick in the draft.

 

[RC_Drunkford]

I brought up Saddiq Bey last week. As you can see he gave the Rockets a ton of trouble and he's on a Sochan type contract.

Other than that I also like Jerami Grant, but his contract is so big that we'd have to send out 4 players to get him.

Maybe Yabusele as a bench PF, although he seems to be unplayable on the Knicks, so I'm not sure if he's a rotation player at this point.

I'd also love to draft an older player like Yaxel Lendeborg and have him on a rookie deal that goes into his prime. That contract could be very valuable long term with all the extensions coming up.

PJ can only be traded after the season.

I'd really like the Spurs to make a move at the deadline to utilize Olynyk's and Sochan's expiring contracts, but the market for what we need is very slim.