Trade Spurs Trade Ideas

[scott]

And just like that, the gap between Vassell and TM3 widened again lol.

I hope I'm not sounding too much like a broken record... but last night showed me why TMIII doesn't make sense for us, even ignoring that assets we'd have to include in a theoretical swap with Devin.

I didn't think Devin even played that bad yesterday, he just didn't get any opportunities. Devin turning into TMIII (or any other high level wing for that matter) wouldn't have really changed that, and when Wemby comes back it's only going to exacerbate things. There just aren't that many touches for what amounts to our 4th or 5th option. Upgrading Devin into TMIII will just mean that an even better player is being underutilized in San Antonio, unless your intent is to de-prioritize Castle into a 4th/5th option (which doesn't appear to be our plan or in our best interests).

I think there are two paths with Devin that make the most sense for us:

1. Swap Devin and Champ in the SL and let Devin go to work as a primary option against bench units. I think Devin can be a 6MOY type player in this role. He'll be slightly overpaid, but it won't be terrible for a few years. Champ fits better in the 3&D 4th/5th option mold and has performed in that role. He's a low USG gunner who is decent enough on defense, and especially when paired with Castle and Wemby.
2. Move Devin to a team that can see he is being underutilized here and has value in exchange for "role players". I haven't played enough in the trade machine on this, but maybe you can get a bench wing or forward and a 3rd string big and maybe a middling future pick for Devin.

As an original Devin Hater, I'm actually quite pleased with him this year and don't think he's done anything this season to earn any ire. But we are seeing there isn't a lot of room for him in the long run. It's going to be hard for him to live up to a $27MM contract getting 5-10 shots a game, and it's not necessarily his fault.

 

[scott]

Vassell is a good player at 18 million. He is a poor player at 27 million. It is always going to be trick or treat with him. But 5th option Devin can lay an egg every once in a while and we live on. It is what it is.

I'd argue he's a poor use of resources even at 18 million, and it's not even his fault. He's still the same player, he's just a 5th option, like you said, and your 5th option should be a MLE or less guy (IMO).

 

[1kangaroo]

I'd argue he's a poor use of resources even at 18 million, and it's not even his fault. He's still the same player, he's just a 5th option, like you said, and your 5th option should be a MLE or less guy (IMO).

Can we turn him into two solid players instead of 1 better player some how

 

[LeBowen]

Can we turn him into two solid players instead of 1 better player some how

Not really because no team has an incentive to give us better value players in exchange for Devin's long-term contract unless we use at least 2 FRPs.

 

[spurraider21]

I don’t know much about Phillips, but there was a good conversation on the latest Game Theory pod about finding guys and it aligns with my general point of view. Basically, find the guys that fit what you need and the style you are trying to play (duh) but you can’t just look for the guys who are fully actualized and the idealized version of what you think you need. Guys like TM3 or Lauri will cost a ton, because they are already fully actualized. Instead, look for the guys who have some flaw that you think your system can help you overcome, or that you feel can be fixed.

They used the example of Mark Williams, who is a horrible defender. But PHX saw a guy who fit with their good perimeter defenders (after they got Brooks) who can funnel traffic to him to take advantage of what he can do (block shots). All of a sudden, Williams looks like a more capable defender.

Is Phillips that guy who can play D and maybe shoot in the right role? If so, then (as Vecenie says) don’t be afraid to “overpay” for him (which in the context of a guy like that, give up more SRPs than his perceived value might be). Vecenie made the point that too many times teams are overly concerned with “winning the trade” when they really should only be concerned with getting their guy.

its not like Williams' defensive upside wasnt known to everybody. he was drafted because of his wingspan, athleticism, and absurd standing reach which IIRC is higher than wemby's

he wasnt panning out in charlotte mostly because he was never on the court and it wasnt like there was much defensive infrastructure around him

 

[scott]

Not really because no team has an incentive to give us better value players in exchange for Devin's long-term contract unless we use at least 2 FRPs.

I don't agree with that. I think Devin has neutral to positive value right now, even with his contract, but only to a certain subset of teams.

Devin is going to be best utilized as a primary (meaning first or second) on a team... but he's only good enough to be that on a play-in or worse team. He just doesn't have enough firepower to be the 2nd option for a contender. So you need to limit the potential suitors to play-in and worse teams. We also already know he's a A++ tank commander.

The long term salary shouldn't bother a team like BKN or WAS. They'll need a salary like Devin's to hit the floor and they are still in the process of building through the draft that means Devin's deal aligns with a lot of these rookie contracts.

The bigger challenge is finding enough salary on those teams to match up with Devin in a theoretical 2-for-1 (or 3-for-1) deal.

TL;DR version: I think Devin has more value than we are giving credit for, even with his contract.

 

[scott]

its not like Williams' defensive upside wasnt known to everybody. he was drafted because of his wingspan, athleticism, and absurd standing reach which IIRC is higher than wemby's

he wasnt panning out in charlotte mostly because he was never on the court and it wasnt like there was much defensive infrastructure around him

The example they gave in regards to Williams was when it looked like he was headed to the Lakers, it was going to be a bad fit and Williams would get continue to get exposed on defense because of the way the Lakers are constructed. It's a conversation that I think it definitely worth listening to. It's in the first 45 minutes of the "Biggest takeaways through 7 weeks" episode. It's part of a larger conversation around team building. It's not simply a "Mark Williams long, Mark Williams block shot" observation.

 

[PocketMonger]

I mean we can just salary dump Dev to the Wizards for McCollum or Middelton. Feels like a waste.

With the Clips falling apart Dev for John Collins makes a ton of sense for the Spurs.

Would love to trade Dev for Keon Ellis this summer in a sign and trade deal too.

 

[Shmurs]

I'd argue he's a poor use of resources even at 18 million, and it's not even his fault. He's still the same player, he's just a 5th option, like you said, and your 5th option should be a MLE or less guy (IMO).

Yeah yeah. Agree but it doesn’t pose a practical problem at the moment.

Like I think you mentioned, he’s a plus asset on the market so it’s not like we need to dump him. But him having a little moment here while we won with injuries, it’s possible this is his peak value. And if that’s the case, it would be very frustrating to see Wright bungle this like he did with Sochan.

Big part of GM’ing is sniffing out your own guys before the market does. Wright has been objectively awful in this regard, except when he’s been recently rewarded for sticking with Keldon, which hopefully doesn’t feed his delusions of rehabilitation for other amigos.

 

[Hoopdreams11]

Collin Murray-Boyles give them Sochan ATL pick seconds whatever makes it so

 

[scott]

Yeah yeah. Agree but it doesn’t pose a practical problem at the moment.

Like I think you mentioned, he’s a plus asset on the market so it’s not like we need to dump him. But him having a little moment here while we won with injuries, it’s possible this is his peak value. And if that’s the case, it would be very frustrating to see Wright bungle this like he did with Sochan.

Big part of GM’ing is sniffing out your own guys before the market does. Wright has been objectively awful in this regard, except when he’s been recently rewarded for sticking with Keldon, which hopefully doesn’t feed his delusions of rehabilitation for other amigos.

I agree generally speaking... it's a tough call because things are "working" for us right now and you don't want to disturb that... but there is definitely a strong chance he is at peak value right now.

 

[e78]

If Devin was a lock down defender he makes sense for us. Unfortunately he isn't.

My wish would be to turn Devin into a true 3 and D player. Preferably someone that has some size and can slot between the 3 and 4 position.

Just not sure who that is

 

[mo7888]

If Devin was a lock down defender he makes sense for us. Unfortunately he isn't.

My wish would be to turn Devin into a true 3 and D player. Preferably someone that has some size and can slot between the 3 and 4 position.

Just not sure who that is

That 3 to 4 player will be Carter Bryant. He's just not there yet.

 

[TBdog]

If Devin was a lock down defender he makes sense for us. Unfortunately he isn't.

My wish would be to turn Devin into a true 3 and D player. Preferably someone that has some size and can slot between the 3 and 4 position.

Just not sure who that is

That's the most sought after player in the NBA.

 

[e78]

That's the most sought after player in the NBA.

Yeah I agree. Thats part of why I'm not sure who fits that mold that we can go get.

 

[mo7888]

Atlanta- AD

Dallas- Devin + Olynyk + Atl pick package

Spurs- Porzingis + Kennard

 

[Uncle Oscar]

Atlanta- AD

Dallas- Devin + Olynyk + Atl pick package

Spurs- Porzingis + Kennard

Interesting

 

[STAT88]

If Devin was a lock down defender he makes sense for us. Unfortunately he isn't.

My wish would be to turn Devin into a true 3 and D player. Preferably someone that has some size and can slot between the 3 and 4 position.

Just not sure who that is

The guy with 7 kids in Dallas.

Or Herb Jones. He would slot in very nicely as a low usage 3-D guy at the SF spot. Just so fucking injury prone it’s hard to commit. I think he ends up on the Lakers tho for a poo poo platter of Knecht, Vincent and protected pick.

 

[SupremeGuy]

Atlanta- AD

Dallas- Devin + Olynyk + Atl pick package

Spurs- Porzingis + Kennard

Porzingis would get injured his first game here tbh lol

Not sure who Kennard is

 

[1kangaroo]

If Devin was a lock down defender he makes sense for us. Unfortunately he isn't.

My wish would be to turn Devin into a true 3 and D player. Preferably someone that has some size and can slot between the 3 and 4 position.

Just not sure who that is

Most teams want give up a top tier guy

 

[1kangaroo]

Looks like vassel will be the odd man out in SA need to unload him before his value starts dipping

 

[Ariel]

Atlanta- AD

Dallas- Devin + Olynyk + Atl pick package

Spurs- Porzingis + Kennard

I assume you mean Atlanta is adding a pick package, still this is basically a salary dump of Vassell. I've been lower than Vassell than most and I'd still easily trade him in the right package, but I'm also extremely skeptical of the ability of Porzingis to contribute long term and I'd take Kennard but he isn't a needle mover for me. I'd try other packages first, but I would like to see the Spurs explore trades opportunities with Vassell's contract while he's playing well since I do not trust him to live up to his contract long term.

 

[Mal]

Spurs need to move Sochan and Vassell. Sochan can do multiple things on average NBA level but nothing on above average. Mitch clearly needs his role player to do one thing above average - Barnes shooting, Champ shooting, Kornet rim protection, Keldon scoring of the bench.

And here we are with Vassell who`s 27 mil contract is too much for what he should bring as 5 option.

So Sochan Vassell should be traded for "shooting winger" "scoring winger" "rebouding winger"

 

[mo7888]

I assume you mean Atlanta is adding a pick package, still this is basically a salary dump of Vassell. I've been lower than Vassell than most and I'd still easily trade him in the right package, but I'm also extremely skeptical of the ability of Porzingis to contribute long term and I'd take Kennard but he isn't a needle mover for me. I'd try other packages first, but I would like to see the Spurs explore trades opportunities with Vassell's contract while he's playing well since I do not trust him to live up to his contract long term.

Yes, I'm referring to Atlanta adding a pick package. My thoughts on Porzingis is that we've got half a season to see how he fits with Wemby and Luke in that rotation. If it work then we try and resign him and if not then we free up cap space. Kennard is just a piece off the bench that fits with any of our back court guy because of his ability to provide spacing. You aren't coming off of him to help on a Cadtle drive or he'll burn you from out there.

 

[Ariel]

Yes, I'm referring to Atlanta adding a pick package. My thoughts on Porzingis is that we've got half a season to see how he fits with Wemby and Luke in that rotation. If it work then we try and resign him and if not then we free up cap space. Kennard is just a piece off the bench that fits with any of our back court guy because of his ability to provide spacing. You aren't coming off of him to help on a Cadtle drive or he'll burn you from out there.

Personally I don't need to see any more on Pozingis, we have many years of evidence to show he's very unreliable and that isn't going to improve now that he's on the wrong side of 30. With availability being a concern with Wemby and dare I say Kornet as well, I think we need a long term 3rd center with real rim protection that can be relied on when one of them is missing, which is likely to be a significant number of minutes each season.

Also, I don't want to help Atlanta dilute the value of their picks further, here they're getting AD for basically nothing players wise, so it won't hurt them if AD is injured and may help them big time if he has a healthy season.

For these reasons I'm out on this particular proposal, but I'm all for exploring scenarios for improving the team, especially using Vassell's contract.