Trade Spurs Trade Ideas

[Ice009]

Yeah, I would not trade that Utah second round pick. I'd only trade if if it was to be included for a very, very, good player.

 

[RC_Drunkford]

Whoever said this had is a smart point re the gap between the DV and TM3 players. I’d also like to understand TM3’s defensive numbers— have been reading elsewhere that he is highly overrated in that area?

Maybe @scott can pull one of his fancy comp charts?

I said this months ago. I'd still want TM3, but not for Devin and additional picks. Or get Herb Jones instead. Our top 9 rotation guys should not get moved. It's Sochan, Olynyk, Biyombo, Waters and McLaughlin who you can package.

 

[Shmurs]

Who's available thats better and cheaper?

I’d rather have Duncan Robinson at 17 than Vassell at 27. But that 27 isn’t a problem until Vic’s next contract, so the right move is to keep Devin unless you can package him for a real 4. Then you worry about unloading his salary next season.

 

[Exstatic]

That Utah pick isn’t that great. It’s like 39 now. It’ll be decent, but I don’t think it falls into the near untouchable category.

 

[BacktoBasics]

I have no issues with Vassells performance this year and am pleasantly surprised. But I’m still hesitant to pay $27M for a fourth/fifth option when there are better options in the market for less.

With the talent the spurs have now, the focus should be:
1) get the complimentary players to fit into the system. There are no needs for big names or stars anymore. THe kornets and the Barnes are exactly the types we should focus on
2) get as many draft picks as possible so that we can get a pipeline to replenish these complementary players. I’m thinking our draft pick cupboard is sort of bare now. One pick a year is better than one pick every other year but multiple picks a year would be even better. The 2nds also have to be well managed now. Either used to trade for or draft and develop useful players.

Let’s say Vassell plays reasonably close to what he’s been doing all season.

There is no one better that’s cheaper outside of rookie contracts of players that would never be moved.

I’d rather have Duncan Robinson at 17 than Vassell at 27. But that 27 isn’t a problem until Vic’s next contract, so the right move is to keep Devin unless you can package him for a real 4. Then you worry about unloading his salary next season.

That would be a horrible exchange. No one would rather have DR at 17.

I agree the 27 is a concern but we don’t know where Vassell values himself going forward if this team finds success. He might be willing to work with the organization to find a fair contract that fits so he can stick around.

We can always take the clippers route. Seems that type of thing is about to be excused by the league.

 

[Ice009]

That Utah pick isn’t that great. It’s like 39 now. It’ll be decent, but I don’t think it falls into the near untouchable category.

You could be right, but I think Utah will pack it in soon and go back to their finishing the season off with sitting players with certain injuries, leading to more losses strategy that they seem to employ later the past couple of years. Maybe I'm wrong and they'll let their players play to win for the whole season and not sit them out with minor injuries that they could play through.

 

[ambchang]

Who's available thats better and cheaper?

Not exactly the role Vassell plays but:
1) Deandre hunter (move Julian to SG Barnes to SF, or play hunter at SF)
2) brooks, naw would’ve been perfect but we lost that. Camara would be great but we will have to rely on the scouts
3) Josh hart would be an option. Not sure how likely we can get him.
4) I think kuzma would fit in the bucks fire sale
5) monk would be nice.
6) huerter from chicago
7) Tre Mann, strus, Duncan Robinson are reasonable options
8) Okongwu would be a dream but no way we can get him I don’t think.
9) levert can be that instant scorer
10) Josh green can help and as he can for sure help.

 

[Shmurs]

I said this months ago. I'd still want TM3, but not for Devin and additional picks. Or get Herb Jones instead. Our top 9 rotation guys should not get moved. It's Sochan, Olynyk, Biyombo, Waters and McLaughlin who you can package.

It would be generous of the spurs to offer 5 players that nobody wants

Let’s say Vassell plays reasonably close to what he’s been doing all season.

There is no one better that’s cheaper outside of rookie contracts of players that would never be moved.



That would be a horrible exchange. No one would rather have DR at 17.

I agree the 27 is a concern but we don’t know where Vassell values himself going forward if this team finds success. He might be willing to work with the organization to find a fair contract that fits so he can stick around.

We can always take the clippers route. Seems that type of thing is about to be excused by the league.

The timing won’t match up. We’ll have a year in apron country if we don’t move him in his last year.

You also need to understand that nobody in his position ever even considers restructuring their expected pay to help with the cap like that. You’re premise is that he’ll take something like a 30% discount for what…vibes?

And Robinson is a real rotation player on winning teams who is giving you very similar output to Devin. Many GM’s would trade 4ppg from a 4th option for 10 mill of cap relief.

Devin is having a good season but hes getting a fortune to put up very average role player numbers. We should be looking for spot up shooters and cutters rather than , frankly, a guy who can’t/shouldnt create but still has delusions that he can/should.

 

[mo7888]

I’d rather have Duncan Robinson at 17 than Vassell at 27. But that 27 isn’t a problem until Vic’s next contract, so the right move is to keep Devin unless you can package him for a real 4. Then you worry about unloading his salary next season.

No thank you... I'd stand pat..

 

[Ariel]

I said this months ago. I'd still want TM3, but not for Devin and additional picks. Or get Herb Jones instead. Our top 9 rotation guys should not get moved. It's Sochan, Olynyk, Biyombo, Waters and McLaughlin who you can package.

Yeah, well, that happens to every team. It's what the salary cap is for, it forces you to prioritize. To you the priority is keeping the top 9 rotation guys together, to me and others it's putting together the best long term core to contend, even if it requires making difficult decisions. For what it's worth, the Spurs' FO is more likely aligned with your way of thinking than mine.

 

[BacktoBasics]

It would be generous of the spurs to offer 5 players that nobody wants

The timing won’t match up. We’ll have a year in apron country if we don’t move him in his last year.

You also need to understand that nobody in his position ever even considers restructuring their expected pay to help with the cap like that. You’re premise is that he’ll take something like a 30% discount for what…vibes?

And Robinson is a real rotation player on winning teams who is giving you very similar output to Devin. Many GM’s would trade 4ppg from a 4th option for 10 mill of cap relief.

Devin is having a good season but hes getting a fortune to put up very average role player numbers. We should be looking for spot up shooters and cutters rather than , frankly, a guy who can’t/shouldnt create but still has delusions that he can/should.

He’s not giving similar output to Devin.

Very average role player numbers?

You want your 4th and 5th option to average 20ppg on 50 and 40?

Yet you want to trade down to lesser role players. Simply to save money?

I don’t like your logic at all on this.

 

[Ariel]

PJ likely gets traded this offseason, I’d say the Mavs will get at least 1 unprotected or very lightly protected pick for him if it’s a pick based deal. I could see 1 swap + 1 pick lightly protected from a contender or a team looking to jump to a contender which is what the Spurs are. Of course they should try get the deal done with just the Mavs swap, you negotiate hard with that and see if the Mavs do it, but I don’t think they do. The Spurs giving up Derrick White to Boston for a top 1 protected swap was an absolute steal for Boston, the Spurs doing the same for PJ would be the same.

When was the last time the Spurs drafted an elite two way role player with all the late FRPs they had since the Duncan era? You’d have to go back to Derrick white in 2017 who was a guard, Kawhi in 2011, then Tiago Splitter in 2007 who was a C. 3 in 25 years and only 1 was a wing, not a great track record. Maybe Carter Bryant breaks the mould.

Also need to remember you need role players who play defense and rebound in the playoffs, I hope Barnes, Champagnie, Keldon kill it in the playoffs in those areas, but I have my doubts.

PJ is a good role player at a position of need, but I wouldn't say he's elite. Smart teams don't move unprotected firsts with high upside for them, more like a known pick with some protections and some other assets (useful vet, young player with some upside, a few second rounders, a non premium swap, etc). Usually when you overpay those trades backfire, because typically those offers are made at an all time high valuation and there's nowhere to go from there but down.

All in all I'm not in disagreement with your overall view (need to improve and archetype required, doubts on how our own role players would fare in a playoff setting, skepticism on how the Spurs' ability to draft those players with late firsts and second rounders) I just differ on the valuation, as I think we can pay less or extract more value out of those picks.

 

[Shmurs]

He’s not giving similar output to Devin.

Very average role player numbers?

You want your 4th and 5th option to average 20ppg on 50 and 40?

Yet you want to trade down to lesser role players. Simply to save money?

I don’t like your logic at all on this.

It’s not my opinion that they’re producing at similar levels. It’s just the reality of it. 4 less ppg but better efficiency. What’s causing your confusion here, that they just look different?

I understand Devin has more tools but we don’t want/need him to use them so I’ll ask again - why do you think they’re so different?

Similar question - what is Devin doing beyond being a good role player putting up very vanilla stats? We need that, so he can keep on chugging but he’s not really better for this team than a more consistent but less versatile 3.

And ultimately he’s too expensive as a 4th option. And he’s about to be the 5th. How much do YOU think a 5th option should make and when it’s time to start trading Fox because Devin is too expensive is that the trade YOU want to make? That’s what will happen no matter what anyone says. He can’t stay on this team.

 

[BacktoBasics]

It’s not my opinion that they’re producing at similar levels. It’s just the reality of it. 4 less ppg but better efficiency. What’s causing your confusion here, that they just look different?

I understand Devin has more tools but we don’t want/need him to use them so I’ll ask again - why do you think they’re so different?

Similar question - what is Devin doing beyond being a good role player putting up very vanilla stats? We need that, so he can keep on chugging but he’s not really better for this team than a more consistent but less versatile 3.

And ultimately he’s too expensive as a 4th option. And he’s about to be the 5th. How much do YOU think a 5th option should make and when it’s time to start trading Fox because Devin is too expensive is that the trade YOU want to make? That’s what will happen no matter what anyone says. He can’t stay on this team.

Not just more tools but Devin has carried this team in stretches and affected winning DR is a fine role player but he’s not impacting the game as much. This is a dumb debate. The two players are not comps.

I’m not shitting bricks over the money as much as others. This is not a “today” problem.

We are a long ways away to say someone can’t stay on the team and must be moved for a lesser player…

Because “money”. It’s premature.

It’s like saying that you want to be a good GM so you’re gonna sacrifice wins now to be budget conscious in two years.

 

[Shmurs]

For every game Devin has been a hero, you have a dozen Robinson games where he’s more consistent. That doesn’t mean Robinson is better but this is the classic friendship crew “waiting for apologies” reddit point where you pick one game and act like its every game. But ultimately I don’t think you understand the difference between 17m and 27. It’s a big difference

 

[Exstatic]

You could be right, but I think Utah will pack it in soon and go back to their finishing the season off with sitting players with certain injuries, leading to more losses strategy that they seem to employ later the past couple of years. Maybe I'm wrong and they'll let their players play to win for the whole season and not sit them out with minor injuries that they could play through.

I hope they do. If they wind up 1-8 after the lottery, the pick to OKC is deferred.

 

[scott]

Whoever said this had is a smart point re the gap between the DV and TM3 players. I’d also like to understand TM3’s defensive numbers— have been reading elsewhere that he is highly overrated in that area?

Maybe @scott can pull one of his fancy comp charts?

These charts back up the idea that the gap between Devin and Trey has definitely closed this year. Undoubtably TM3 has a higher perceived value... but as far as real impact goes, they aren't far apart (and TM3 is dropping off on a horrible NOP team). Included Herb because I think he's the actual guy we should be interested in (though I think he might be poison pilled)

 

[scott]

I think some folks are struggling with the inevitability of moving someone like Dev...

When he's playing poorly (like last season), everyone wants to move him... of course everyone else also knows he is playing poorly so his value is in the tank.

When he's playing well (like this season), his value is up but now all of a sudden no one wants to trade him.

I was one of the first on the TM3 Train, but I don't think that's a move that makes sense any longer. Vassell is fine for now and his contract isn't creating any problems yet. There is no need to move him for a similar (perhaps slightly better) player on a similar contract. We don't need to upgrade Vassell's role right now. If he gets moved now, it should be for someone who is a clear better fit for what we lack (a true 3&D wing. which Dev is doing a good job impersonating, or PF). If that doesn't happen, it will be okay... but eventually we'll need to turn Devin's $27MM into two roster spots instead of just one. Dev's just a victim of the rest of the roster developing around him and money needing to go to those higher level players.

 

[LeBowen]

I'm not someone to dismiss statlines just because someone is on a bad team, but if Herb and Murphy were winning players, they wouldn't be at 3-21 right now.

Herb has lost a lot of value, tbh.

 

[SpursBills]

These charts back up the idea that the gap between Devin and Trey has definitely closed this year. Undoubtably TM3 has a higher perceived value... but as far as real impact goes, they aren't far apart (and TM3 is dropping off on a horrible NOP team). Included Herb because I think he's the actual guy we should be interested in (though I think he might be poison pilled)

Actually the more I look into it @spursfanfromafar, the more I wonder whether we might be undervaluing Moody here. 6'6" with a 7'1" wingspan, very good POA defender on a value contract, 4.6 3PM/100, still 23. A Fox/Castle/Moody/CB/Wemby lineup gives you 3 high level defenders in 2 years to throw at the backcourt scoring duos out there (Luka/Reaves, SGA/JDub) while only having Castle as the negative shooter.

 

[scott]

Actually the more I look into it @spursfanfromafar, the more I wonder whether we might be undervaluing Moody here. 6'6" with a 7'1" wingspan, very good POA defender on a value contract, 4.6 3PM/100, still 23. A Fox/Castle/Moody/CB/Wemby lineup gives you 3 high level defenders in 2 years to throw at the backcourt scoring duos out there (Luka/Reaves, SGA/JDub) while only having Castle as the negative shooter.

I'm into it - and I always appreciate the finds that both you and @spursfanfromafar come up with!

I just don't know why GSW would trade Moody at this point, unless we're picking him up as part of a bigger deal where they are adding an upgrade for Curry's final run. I don't think they're doing Moody for Sochan just so they can get an SRP. He's a pretty core part of their rotation (25mpg) and they are trying to make the playoffs. I don't think the tax matters to them as much as getting playoff home games with Curry while they still can.

Now... if it's part of some bigger deal... such as...

 

[SpursBills]

I'm into it - and I always appreciate the finds that both you and @spursfanfromafar come up with!

I just don't know why GSW would trade Moody at this point, unless we're picking him up as part of a bigger deal where they are adding an upgrade for Curry's final run. I don't think they're doing Moody for Sochan just so they can get an SRP. He's a pretty core part of their rotation (25mpg) and they are trying to make the playoffs. I don't think the tax matters to them as much as getting playoff home games with Curry while they still can.

Now... if it's part of some bigger deal... such as...

As a basketball fan this moves me. Get it done Brian Wright

 

[BacktoBasics]

For every game Devin has been a hero, you have a dozen Robinson games where he’s more consistent. That doesn’t mean Robinson is better but this is the classic friendship crew “waiting for apologies” reddit point where you pick one game and act like its every game. But ultimately I don’t think you understand the difference between 17m and 27. It’s a big difference

I’m all for trading Sochan so save the dumbass friendship crew apologist bullshit.

Some of you guys love to hate our players. It’s like a lifestyle to some of you. This sense of urgency to sell now is mythical.

The stupidity is peaking at DR being better than Vassell with the logic of using 10 million as some kind of supporting evidence alongside under the radar consistency.

I don’t in any way want to dismiss the notion that financial decisions will need to be made but to move a guy having a great season now simply because we might have tough contract problems later is just not a good argument.

You sound like a video game GM.

 

[Exstatic]

I'm not someone to dismiss statlines just because someone is on a bad team, but if Herb and Murphy were winning players, they wouldn't be at 3-21 right now.

Herb has lost a lot of value, tbh.

Hasn’t he also had multiple injuries?

 

[LeBowen]

Hasn’t he also had multiple injuries?

Missed most of the last season with torn shoulder, got the dreaded calf injury a couple of weeks ago.