NBA Kawitters Legacy taking another hit

[Sugus]

Is Brunson next? Did Cuban do this with Dirk?
Maybe this is so common in the league that numerous owners don’t want anything to come of the investigation. Also they don’t want to help OKC any more than they have to

This is absolutely, undoubtedly true -- and exactly the reason why Pablo Torre deserves some major props, and hopefully awards and job opportunities in the future, for both his investigative work, and his exposure of the issue to the general public.

There is no doubt that cap circumvention is done at large by NBA teams in some capacity -- the Clippers themselves had been previously fined for breaking these same rules with Deandre Jordan, and Pat Bev also foolishly admitted that he signed with the Clips specifically due to a direct promise from Ballmer that he'd get to place something like 90 basketball courts around LA under his name.

That's why the PTFO investigation and podcast releases have been so game-changing - they continue to shine a bright light on one of the NBA's darkest closets. We can only hope that Pablo does some more NBA-related content in the future, the league needs this in the worst way possible.

 

[ambchang]

I’m quite certain that if nephew and uncle got nailed to the tree of woe (still doubtful), they would go down dragging a whole lot of others with them. Which is why nosferatu is trying to put a lid on this.

 

[ambchang]

I don’t think this has been posted yet but delete if it has been.

'They're done building around him': Inside the tumultuous Kawhi Leonard era in Los Angeles

Just weeks after the Clippers shocked the NBA world by signing the 2019 NBA MVP, a feeling percolated across the organization: fear.

www.espn.com

EDIT: Was on the phone when posting this yesterday, so tough to cut-and-paste the juicier bits of the article. Overall nothing ground-breaking as there has been rumours of some of this going on for years, or the general reaction is pretty expected, but there are some hearsay which is quite interesting. It's one of those "I heard from a source thing without any type of solid verification", but I find interesting nonetheless.

"This last investigation is different," a former Clippers staffer said of the league's inquiry into a sponsorship deal with a company that Ballmer invested in. "This one directly calls into question Steve Ballmer's character.

"At some point, Steve has got to get out of the Kawhi business."

I believe we mostly know about these requests before this article was published:

Acquiring George was one of several requests made by Leonard and his camp, led by Leonard's uncle, Dennis Robertson, who outlined a series of asks for the Clippers in the days leading up to July 5.

Those requests included part ownership of the team, access to a private plane, a house and guaranteed off-court endorsement money, one source with direct knowledge of the talks said. They were the same requests that, according to The Athletic, Robertson made of the Lakers and the Raptors. The Toronto Star reported on Sept. 9 that Robertson also asked the Raptors for ownership stakes in outside companies and corporate sponsorship deals in which Leonard wouldn't have to do anything in return for the money. Robertson did not respond to requests for comment for either story.

These verbal requests fell outside the boundaries of the league's collective bargaining agreement, and while the Clippers didn't say yes to them, they did say yes to others, according to a source with knowledge of the talks.

Robertson, who did not respond to a request for comment for this story, wanted Leonard to be able to initially live in San Diego rather than in Los Angeles. (Leonard would commute via helicopter. He later moved to Los Angeles.) The Clippers agreed. He wanted Leonard to be able to skip some media obligations and team community events. The Clippers agreed. He wanted the team to promise to market Leonard individually. The Clippers agreed. He wanted Leonard to be able to bring some of his own people into the organization. The Clippers agreed. (A team source disputes the existence of some of these requests and the tone of some others.)

Perhaps most importantly, Robertson said there would need to be a strict protocol about how to talk about Leonard publicly -- and that was to say nothing unless absolutely necessary.

Not what ESPN was harping back then, the Spurs were painted as the out-of-date dinosaur who doesn't know how to manage a superstar.

The Clippers had watched from afar how Leonard's tenure with the Spurs had ended because of a rift over how best to manage Leonard's health following a March 2016 lower-body injury that the team declared was quadriceps tendinopathy in 2017. ESPN's Michael Wright and Ramona Shelburne reported in 2018 that a key part of that divide was whether Leonard's issues were, as the Spurs believed after consulting with medical experts, degenerative and irreversible, and would need to be managed indefinitely. Leonard's camp, including Robertson, disagreed.

Ultimately, Leonard requested a trade in the summer of 2018, with two years left on the max deal he'd signed in 2015. Even before the Clippers signed Leonard, they knew that if he could lose trust and dismantle a seven-season relationship with the Spurs for such a reason, then he easily could do the same to them.

"The Spurs were maybe the most respected, most revered pro sports team in America," one former staffer said. "It was like if this guy is willing to tell those people to go f--- themselves, he can't possibly be afraid to tell us to go f--- ourselves. ... Everybody was afraid of Kawhi leaving." That sentiment was echoed by multiple team and league sources.

I am not sure if Kawhi's max days are over, but I am sure some GM will be desperate enough to max him out due to desperation despite all the red flags (injuries, having to be handled with velvet gloves). I also find it very surprising that Kawhi is well liked, still, by his teammates.

If Leonard, seeking a better deal, had threatened to test the free agent market, any prospective team would want a thorough medical examination, including any information that Leonard and his camp had sought to keep private. That medical information could, in the hands of another team, be leaked, the ex-staffer pointed out.

Privately, the Clippers fully understood the ins and outs of Leonard's health. If this was what they were offering to pay him at this point in his career, then there was a good reason behind it.

As one team source told ESPN, "We know what's under the hood."

Still, while Clippers staffers feared agitating Leonard, they were quick to say teammates liked and admired him, a sentiment that remains. When he played, he played hard. When he worked out, his focus, determination and discipline received consistent praise.

How he is difficult to deal with even with team USA and acts like an entitled brat.

While sources say Team USA officials regret how the situation played out, those same officials also recognize that Leonard's camp hadn't been forthcoming about the knee procedure or about his recovery.

A long segment about Shelton's allegations, which I find to be not overly credible. The most interesting part for me is:

Later, Shelton alleged that Robertson negotiated Shelton's contract as an unlicensed agent in California, which, Shelton's lawyers noted, could violate state laws. Shelton's lawyers added that Shelton received a "direct threat" from Robertson during the process: Either Shelton pay Robertson 10% of his Clippers salary or he couldn't join the Clippers.

then later:

When news of Shelton's lawsuit began to spread across the league, one team source with direct knowledge of the situation said many of Shelton's claims were untrue -- but not all.

Also some other pieces about him being tough to manage and basically lording over the Clippers org, but those are tidbits spread throughout the article.

 

[Mugen]

Silver needs to drop the hammer tbh. But at least anybody that didn't already know, realizes that Nephew and Uncle Dennis are the two biggest scumbags the league has seen in years.

 

[heyheymymy]

Uncle Dennis ended up being just as diabolical as spurs fans thought all along.

 

[couchman]

Part of what made Kawhi’s betrayal hurt so much for me was the thought that the Spurs would have likely won another title if he had stayed. That would have been worth it to me, even if we had to endure years of injuries and load management afterwards. I never subscribed to the idea that we were better off without him.
UNTIL NOW.
This latest drama pushes it over the edge for me. Keeping Kawhi and getting all of the results and outcomes and controversies he has created since leaving the Spurs would no longer be worth it for me. He has managed to create so many bad outcomes that THEY OUTWEIGH A TITLE.

 

[ambchang]

Part of what made Kawhi’s betrayal hurt so much for me was the thought that the Spurs would have likely won another title if he had stayed. That would have been worth it to me, even if we had to endure years of injuries and load management afterwards. I never subscribed to the idea that we were better off without him.
UNTIL NOW.
This latest drama pushes it over the edge for me. Keeping Kawhi and getting all of the results and outcomes and controversies he has created since leaving the Spurs would no longer be worth it for me. He has managed to create so many bad outcomes that THEY OUTWEIGH A TITLE.

I also thought the spurs bent over backwards to Kawhi for a better part of a year and a half, and it was clear that neph and uncle Dennis had no plans of coming back to the spurs under any circumstances. They were forcing their way to LA and that was it.

The spurs ended up doing right but I’m not sure if they had lines they wouldn’t cross or they were forced to do right because neph and his camp wouldn’t have accepted anything even if the spurs were able to stretch the rules.

 

[couchman]

Yeah, it was just a hypthetical. Obviously, Uncle Dennis was getting Kawhi out of SA one way or another.
And I'm 100% the Spurs were never going to offer extra benefits.
What a journey from that 97 Tahoe "Gas Guzzler" Kawhi used to drive...

 

[LkrFan]

1) Make Ballmer sell the team back to Donald Sterling. The Clippers were great under the Donald.

2) Do not void Kawhi's contract. Actually, make them extend him for 10 years on a super max.

3) Dock them for multiple FRPs like Stern did the T'Pups in the Joe Smith scandal. They already gave up many for Paul George. Take more though. Send a message.

4) Gift the Intuit Dome to the Lakers since it was built in the Great Western Forum's backyard.

5) Void Zubac contract. I'm sure his extension was shady. He never should have left LA's varsity team. SMH

These are all appropriate as deemed by LkrFan.

 

[Seventyniner]

Forcing Ballmer to sell would be the ultimate punishment. He has all the money in the world but he's a basketball junkie and owning an NBA team is a matter of ultimate prestige for him.

It will never happen anyway. The other 29 owners kicking out one of the richest people in the world can only hurt them financially.

 

[Dex]

Forcing Ballmer to sell would be the ultimate punishment. He has all the money in the world but he's a basketball junkie and owning an NBA team is a matter of ultimate prestige for him.

It will never happen anyway. The other 29 owners kicking out one of the richest people in the world can only hurt them financially.

Yep. No amount of fines will matter to him...dude was throwing $50M+ at Aspiration like it was chump-change.

But if you take away his favorite toy, that will send a message to him and the league. Unfortunately, Silver is spineless and according to reports, a lot of the other owners "really like Ballmer" whereas everyone hated Sterling, so this will never happen.

Best case scenario is probably that they void Kawhi's contract while leaving the money on the books, and maybe take some picks which won't even be due until like 2030.

 

[LeBowen]

But Silver is spineless and according to reports, a lot of the other owners "really like Ballmer" whereas everyone hated Sterling, so this will never happen.

The issue is that the league doesn't want to get rid of one of the few owners that keep investing without any regard for the cost.
They don't need another useless franchise.

Best case scenario is probably that they void Kawhi's contract while leaving the money on the books, and maybe take some picks which won't even be due until like 2030.

I said something similar when this first started.
Suspend nephew without pay for the rest of his contract while freezing that cap space.

Taking away picks in 2030s would be franchise ruining and we go back to the league not wanting more useless franchises.
Taking away 2027 and 2029 OKC/PHI swapped picks they get should suffice.

I think the main point here is that nephew also needs to get punished. Because if it's just the Clippers that take the blame for this, there will be more scummy players/agents trying to do the same and hoping their franchises will be more competent about under the table payments.

 

[Ariel]

AI Summary:

Event/Key Point	Evidence/Details	Timestamp(s)
Early Target	Kawhi's camp, led by Uncle Dennis (Dennis Robertson), was targeting the Clippers as Kawhi's next team during the 2019 playoffs, even during the series against Philadelphia.	2:23–2:36
Negotiation Template	The Raptors were presented with a "template" of demands during a meeting in Toronto, which Kawhi attended. The Raptors were told the team they just won the title with was the "best basketball situation" but received a list of demands.	1:47–1:58; 3:47
Demand 1: Paul George Trade	The primary basketball-related demand was for the Raptors to trade for Paul George, which Kawhi's people shopped around. The demanded package included Pascal Siakam, Fred VanVleet, and four or five unprotected first-round picks.	4:01–4:17; 4:35
Demand 2: Extra, No-Work Money	The camp asked for approximately $10 million a year extra (outside the salary cap). The Raptors offered corporate endorsements, but the negotiation broke down when Dennis Robertson stated they didn't want to do "any work" for the money.	5:19; 5:55
Demand 3: Maple Leafs Stake	Robertson also asked for a slice of the Toronto Maple Leafs, unaware that they are owned by the same company as the Raptors (Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment). A Raptors minority owner had to explain they could not do this.	7:03; 8:15–8:21
Clippers Fulfill Demands	The Clippers agreed to Kawhi's demands, trading a "huge amount" for Paul George. The Clippers also funneled $48 million to Kawhi, including $28 million for a "no-show job" and $20 million in stock via the company Aspiration, which was money outside the salary cap that he had previously asked the Raptors for.	4:48; 23:06–23:11; 17:39
Raptors' Stance	The Raptors front office was angry about the negotiations, feeling it "wasn't a free agent negotiation in the way that you're supposed to negotiate" and walked away because they could not meet the demands, particularly the "no-work" financial ones.	8:46–9:10

 

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1971252783849537946

 

[RC_Drunkford]

Dirk having two 90 million dollar contracts on the table and then resigning for 28 million with the Mavs instead, while getting the difference from Cuban's production company for his documentary is actually an even bigger scam

 

[Neuromancer]

Dirk having two 90 million dollar contracts on the table and then resigning for 28 million with the Mavs instead, while getting the difference from Cuban's production company for his documentary is actually an even bigger scam

Probably why he's been so vocal in defending Balmer. Probably scared Pablo is gonna target him next

 

[JJSPUR]

Fine Ballmer and the clippers the absolute max that can be fined (its a drop in the bucket for Balmer) but also suspend greedy crooked Kawhi for 2 years. Maybe by then he'll be healthy enough to play . My guess if that happened, and he came back to play, he'd get injured on media day. Also if possible, ban uncle Dennis from entering any NBA or G-league arena.

 

[Exstatic]

Fine Ballmer and the clippers the absolute max that can be fined (its a drop in the bucket for Balmer) but also suspend greedy crooked Kawhi for 2 years. Maybe by then he'll be healthy enough to play . My guess if that happened, and he came back to play, he'd get injured on media day. Also if possible, ban uncle Dennis from entering any NBA or G-league arena.

I don’t think there is any allowance in the CBAfor multi year suspensions, but you can terminate the contract, and prevent the Clippers from signing him again.

 

[dn0774]

The best way to curtail this behavior is make an example out of Kawhi. Make the punishment so severe that players in the future would never risk seeking additional compensation outside the scope of the cba. If the org gets hit hard but the player gets a wrist slap or less then this will continue to be a thing. Both parties need to have the hammer brought down hard on them.

Honestly, what reasoning does the players union have to stand up for Kawhi? Isn’t Kawhi receiving money from the Clippers outside of the cba bad for them as well? Isn’t the union funded through their contracts?

 

[Exstatic]

The best way to curtail this behavior is make an example out of Kawhi. Make the punishment so severe that players in the future would never risk seeking additional compensation outside the scope of the cba. If the org gets hit hard but the player gets a wrist slap or less then this will continue to be a thing. Both parties need to have the hammer brought down hard on them.

Honestly, what reasoning does the players union have to stand up for Kawhi? Isn’t Kawhi receiving money from the Clippers outside of the cba bad for them as well? Isn’t the union funded through their contracts?

They would all love the opportunity to do just what he did.

I don’t see voiding his contract, and barring him from re-signing with the Clippers as a slap on the hand. If the NBA truly drops the bomb, he’ll never get any other kind of outside deal. Any team he signs with will automatically be under the microscope. Voiding the contract and prohibiting the Clippers from signing him also forecloses sign and trades. He’ll have to find a team with cap room to sign him outright at his age, and with history of injuries, and willing to go under a financial microscope. It would also be hilarious of Luka decided he didn’t find him a worthwhile partner with his 50-60 games played and inevitable playoff breakdown, and he couldn’t play in LA at all.

 

[LeBowen]

From reddit comments:

Holy shit this is a nuke, they have an email showing Joe Sanberg (Aspiration co-founder) very explicitly stating he was giving Kawhi $20 million of his own personal stock against the wishes of other executives in the company. Why is he so hellbent on guaranteeing Kawhi his money?

Ballmer's foundation donated $1.875m (suspiciously familiar figure) to Joe Sanberg's (same guy as above) foundation. This was in December 2024 after Aspiration went under and Ballmer ended the Clips partnership with Aspiration and claims he was hoodwinked and bamboozled. He then pays the same guy additional money in a different company. Seems legit.

 

[Seventyniner]

ooh another Pablo Torre vid dropped? Time to make a 5 gallon bucket of popcorn and get to watching.

 

[ginobilized]

Outstanding investigative journalism by Pablo Torre. Should make for a fun media day in Clipperland.
I was glad to hear that these documents will be part of the NBA investigation with Wachtell. The text, email and paper trail on this is so blatantly egregious that the Clippers/Ballmer/Kawhi are pretty screwed. I hope that Pablo's document trail expedites the NBA investigation and penalty process.

 

[Sugus]

I'm only now starting the watch, but looks to be another banger from Pablo Torre and his crew.

Man, this one random dude has done more to inadvertently clear the Spurs' name and reputation, single-handedly changing the entire narrative surrounding Kawhi (the Clippers have always been a shitshow) and exposing his shady dealings, which before his podcast, had always been met by the general public as "salty Spurs / Raptors fans being butthurt" despite many rumors supporting our side of the story.

Sadly the Spurs org won't (can't?) ever officially recognize or thank him for his work, but we fans owe him tremendously. This is much more than I ever dreamed of in terms of "Nephew's Downfall", like if Groundhog Day happened to land on Christmas.

 

[LeBowen]

Sadly the Spurs org won't (can't?) ever officially recognize or thank him for his work, but we fans owe him tremendously. This is much more than I ever dreamed of in terms of "Nephew's Downfall", like if Groundhog Day happened to land on Christmas.

He should get an exclusive 1 hour Wemby interview or something, that's the least Spurs can do.