Analysis How Does the Offense Change When Wemby Returns?

[mo7888]

I think all this talk of Wemby all of the sudden having to adjust to the back court is just silly. He is the "Center of gravity" and everyone will play around him. Will there be subtle changes, I'm sure, but this is his team.

 

[John B]

As mentioned in another thread, Wemby can be the most effective opportunistic scorer ever with his skills and size. Pop have always envisioned that 3-guard offense. Now add the most dominant defensive player to that!

Fox as a proven clutch shooter is critical especially during those times they need a basket. Castle and Dylan are playing great creating and attacking the basket. Barnes treys are money. Vassell/Champ/Keldon are playing great role players. This team is just getting started. I can’t wait for the finish product. Spurs are going to be winning for a long time bitches!!

 

[BankShot21]

MVP DPOY is gone. Championship seems like a Thunder lock. If no injuries the fuckers seem destined to beat 73-9. Victor should probably just work out how best to fit in with the team (by team I mean Fox, Harper and Castle) get stronger, keep healthy and make some moves at the deadline and in the off-season

 

[The Truth #6]

Seems like the plan is the same. Feed the ball to Kyle Mangas, let him cook, and fire up the river boats for the parade.


No, but, it will all come down to how Wemby reacts to all this downtime - either he adapts, knowing we are winning without him, and eases into things, OR, more likely, he comes out hot and manic and tries to destroy Chet on national tv. And it's the same path we've been on.

 

[Area 51.247]

Seems like the plan is the same. Feed the ball to Kyle Mangas, let him cook, and fire up the river boats for the parade.


No, but, it will all come down to how Wemby reacts to all this downtime - either he adapts, knowing we are winning without him, and eases into things, OR, more likely, he comes out hot and manic and tries to destroy Chet on national tv. And it's the same path we've been on.

Change of pace: start Mangas, David Jones Garcia, and Lindy to throw a little disruptive nonchalance at OKC.

 

[wemvp]

I think all this talk of Wemby all of the sudden having to adjust to the back court is just silly. He is the "Center of gravity" and everyone will play around him. Will there be subtle changes, I'm sure, but this is his team.

That will kill the offensive output they've gotten the last 12 games.

This is Mitch's greatest challenge of the season. As great as Wemby is when he's right, the offense bogs down with him. Turns into too much ISO, too much Wemby on the perimeter holding the ball. The offense has absolutely cooked teams with Fox, Harper, Vassell, and the last 2 games Castle, weaving up top and getting the PnR action. Moving the ball quickly up the court and getting runs at the rim, even after giving up made baskets.

The other factor is Wemby's tendency to pick up injuries. Lowering his usage rate on offense and keeping him around 30 mpg could extend his ability to stay healthy. He'll never be a low block player, but keeping him in the high post and working him into screens and catching the ball off guard drives should work better than having him out at the 3.

Wemby needs to realize his limitations and finally start playing into a system with the guards. Stop trying to be a guard that dictates the system. Main focus should be being the most dominating defensive presence the game has ever seen.

 

[mo7888]

That will kill the offensive output they've gotten the last 12 games.

This is Mitch's greatest challenge of the season. As great as Wemby is when he's right, the offense bogs down with him. Turns into too much ISO, too much Wemby on the perimeter holding the ball. The offense has absolutely cooked teams with Fox, Harper, Vassell, and the last 2 games Castle, weaving up top and getting the PnR action. Moving the ball quickly up the court and getting runs at the rim, even after giving up made baskets.

The other factor is Wemby's tendency to pick up injuries. Lowering his usage rate on offense and keeping him around 30 mpg could extend his ability to stay healthy. He'll never be a low block player, but keeping him in the high post and working him into screens and catching the ball off guard drives should work better than having him out at the 3.

Wemby needs to realize his limitations and finally start playing into a system with the guards. Stop trying to be a guard that dictates the system. Main focus should be being the most dominating defensive presence the game has ever seen.

Obviously, I think thats a stupid take.... if that's your take you aren't far from starting a 'trade Wemby' thread because he's never going to accept that he needs to fit in as opposed to the other guys fitting in around him.

 

[wemvp]

Obviously, I think thats a stupid take.... if that's your take you aren't far from starting a 'trade Wemby' thread because he's never going to accept that he needs to fit in as opposed to the other guys fitting in around him.

It's a team sport. Everyone has to find a fit into a team game if you want to win titles. No matter how hyped any individual was before they ever played a game.

OKC has done that to a great extent. If this team is too full of individual ego they can't properly fit into the best team they can be they'll never reach the top.

I'd never say to trade Wemby, that's just a dumb ass thing for you to say. You obviously know nothing of my post history here. To even suggest that is insulting, and I'm one more stupid ass attack from you away from throwing you on ignore.

 

[NASpurs]

Seems like he's aware that he's not coming in to save the team from a slide due to his absence, in fact, it's the opposite:

Wemby on the team winning in his absence: "Really proud...it's getting closer to the ideal basketball in my opinion, and everybody has something to eat. Everybody can step up at any time. Everybody can take up responsibilities. Everybody trusts their next teammate. It’s just beautiful to see."

 

[The Truth #6]

I think he balances an understanding that he can be the literal GOAT while also wanting to play the right way. But he's young and trying to figure out that balance. Keeping him safe from injuries is smart but naturally delays his progression to his fully idealized title-winning player. Mentally, he understands what needs to happen, but he still has to experience it on the court for the answers to become self-apparent.

Or something like that.

IE, we aren't titling this year but hopefully he learns the path to get in that conversation next year as far as a realistic goal.

 

[frenchfred]

Obviously, I think thats a stupid take.... if that's your take you aren't far from starting a 'trade Wemby' thread because he's never going to accept that he needs to fit in as opposed to the other guys fitting in around him.

if he wants people to fit around him and be the guy, he needs to play like it. Defensively, there is no question that he is the anchor but offensively, when he is in the zone, no question, he is great but when he is not he needs to stop dribbling going into traffic getting stripped all the time, he needs to be able to take advantage of his size down low, i.e., having post moves, stop taking ill advised 3 pointer, reading double teams quickly, he still has way to go before being the guy who can take over games night in night out like Shay or Joker. Right now, the offense becomes more stagnant when he is on the floor and until he figures out what I listed, I think that he should follow the flow of the game, of course gets his touches but stop going ISO.

 

[mo7888]

It's a team sport. Everyone has to find a fit into a team game if you want to win titles. No matter how hyped any individual was before they ever played a game.

OKC has done that to a great extent. If this team is too full of individual ego they can't properly fit into the best team they can be they'll never reach the top.

I'd never say to trade Wemby, that's just a dumb ass thing for you to say. You obviously know nothing of my post history here. To even suggest that is insulting, and I'm one more stupid ass attack from you away from throwing you on ignore.

I never said to trade Wemby, I said thats where this line of thinking leads to.

Did Michael try and fit in or did people fit around him? How about Prime Timmy, prime kobe, prime shaw, prime Hakeem? You know the answer and Wemby is in that category... they'll happily fit around him or they won't be here...

 

[The Truth #6]

I think the challenge is that it isn't obvious what exactly everyone is fitting around in regards to Wemby on offense because HE doesn't know exactly what his offensive game is. He's slowly figuring it out. And so, it's a process.

All those other players knew their spots when they had the ball in their hands, and for many of those greats they knew what spots were NOT for them. As in, Tim and Shaq weren't dancing outside the 3pt line shooting 3s, for example.

 

[Raven_]

I think all this talk of Wemby all of the sudden having to adjust to the back court is just silly. He is the "Center of gravity" and everyone will play around him. Will there be subtle changes, I'm sure, but this is his team.

it's not silly, it is valid to think that keeping a larger amount of opposing players in the paint could prove counterproductive, when dylan and castle are so reliant on penetrations and layups

 

[Mitch Cumsteen]

I never said to trade Wemby, I said thats where this line of thinking leads to.

Did Michael try and fit in or did people fit around him? How about Prime Timmy, prime kobe, prime shaw, prime Hakeem? You know the answer and Wemby is in that category... they'll happily fit around him or they won't be here...

Actually Michael deferred a ton when they started running the triangle and that’s when they started winning big. Timmy was a chameleon and did whatever he needed to do to change over the course of his career to win. Wemby, if he truly wants to win and be considered an all time great will do the same. Magic. Bird. Even LeBron. The all time greats all did whatever it took to win. Other than Kobe, really, that kind of selfishness never led to anything but empty stats and broken playoff dreams.

 

[SpursBills]

Obviously, I think thats a stupid take.... if that's your take you aren't far from starting a 'trade Wemby' thread because he's never going to accept that he needs to fit in as opposed to the other guys fitting in around him.

Gotta disagree with this. If Wemby's "never going to accept" that he can't be anything less than option 1A on offense while his offense is underdeveloped and the team's offensive rating improved without him, then he doesn't have a prayer of ever surpassing Duncan.

I think he'll recognize what he needs to do to win and adjust accordingly. And if he doesn't, then hopefully Dagneault sticks Dort/Caruso on him at the 3 point line and teaches him the lessons he needs to learn.

 

[mo7888]

Actually Michael deferred a ton when they started running the triangle and that’s when they started winning big. Timmy was a chameleon and did whatever he needed to do to change over the course of his career to win. Wemby, if he truly wants to win and be considered an all time great will do the same. Magic. Bird. Even LeBron. The all time greats all did whatever it took to win. Other than Kobe, really, that kind of selfishness never led to anything but empty stats and broken playoff dreams.

Every superstar is going to defer for certain points during a game or they'd play themselves to exhaustion. That said, Michael never changed his game to fit in around others. They always had to fit around him and if they couldn't they'd be replaced.

 

[mo7888]

Gotta disagree with this. If Wemby's "never going to accept" that he can't be anything less than option 1A on offense while his offense is underdeveloped and the team's offensive rating improved without him, then he doesn't have a prayer of ever surpassing Duncan.

I think he'll recognize what he needs to do to win and adjust accordingly. And if he doesn't, then hopefully Dagneault sticks Dort/Caruso on him at the 3 point line and teaches him the lessons he needs to learn.

Which top 5 player today doesn't consider himself option A? There's not one. Even a more unselfish player like the joker still considers himself option A. That doesn't mean he takes every shot or doesn't involve teammates to get them going. It means he's the center of the universe that everyone works their game around to service. That doesn't make him a ball hog or selfish player, it just means he's the man and our identity is built around him.

 

[The Truth #6]

The reality might be not that Wemby can't play a certain way or that he has to restrict his spots absolutely. More like, he has to share his time with others to some degree.

 

[couchman]

The problem Wemby has is that he can’t get to”his spots” consistently. (That’s sssuming he knows what his spots are) This season alone we saw him body guys for a few games inside, then teams adjusted and he was forced to play outside. His high center of gravity means that smaller forwards can get under him and force him too far from any kind of post, and his dribble is too high for him to get past them on the perimeter without a lot of turnovers.
Put Wemby next to an elite creator or two (we have 3!!) and he gets to play against a defense that’s already off balance. That means spot up 3s, dunker spot finishes, and stampede cuts following penetration. It’s a lot like the Durant shot diet. Call it the first option or 1A whatever you want, but he can lead the team in scoring this way on better efficiency and save some energy for the defensive end where we’re really need him.

 

[scott]

At least for these few games back, Wemby needs to basically play the same role Kornet's been playing, except he can add some pick-and-pops along with that killer trailing 3.

What we don't want to see is the ball stopping and point Wemby stuff every possession.

The ORTG on/off for these first few games will no doubt be studied quite intensely.

 

[CGD]

I suspect OKC is eager to send us a message tonight. Will be interesting to see how our guys react.

 

[couchman]

Wemby was fairly effective in the high post tonight. Still too many turnovers.

 

[Guru of Nothing]

The OKC matchup revealed our serious business rotation with only 9 players getting in the game, and even this was with KJ capped at 14 minutes.

Minute allocation. Note to self to compare Dec 23rd and 25th games.

37 - Fox
34 - Castle
25 - Harper
32 - Vassell

14 - KJ
27 - Champ
27 - Barnes

24 - Kornet
21 - Wemby

 

[Area 51.247]

The OKC matchup revealed our serious business rotation with only 9 players getting in the game, and even this was with KJ capped at 14 minutes.

Minute allocation. Note to self to compare Dec 23rd and 25th games.

37 - Fox
34 - Castle
25 - Harper
32 - Vassell

14 - KJ
27 - Champ
27 - Barnes

24 - Kornet
21 - Wemby

Was KJ out there for a few minutes as the small ball 5? Or was it HB?