Giannis Antetokounmpo Trade Watch

[Kick-Stand]

So much is wrong with your post it’s hard to find where to start.

1. No they fired Westhead bc he refused to run and gun like Magic wanted to and to play through Kareem. Magic was so frustrated he demanded a trade. And no shit Kareem was good. That’s literally my whole point. When top 5 players team up they win.

2. Pippen wasn’t a monster point guard. He could initiate the offense for sure but so did Jordan. And again they operated on the same part of the floor. They both were heavy midrange players who liked to attack the rim. Neither one could shoot the three worth shit. Their shot charts are amazingly similar.

3. Wade sacrificed all of one shot for LeBron when they rang in 2012. I don’t know how he handled such a sacrifice with such class and dignity but man it really makes me respect him more as a player to see him willing to forgo his touches like that for LeBron (blue font).

4. Coming up with an offensive system to cater to your best players is literally the coaches job. So yeah Mitch would have to do that.

5. When tf was PG13 a top 5 player in the league? We have different definitions of greatness if you’re including Paul fucking George.

Dude just stop. I posted facts. You posted garbage. The facts are, besides 1969 (with West and Baylor) when two top 5 players are paired together they fucking win championships. I don’t know how you can even argue otherwise. I’d love to see it. Just don’t bring up Paul George again

1. Magic demanded the trade because yes Westhead told them not to run normal fast breaks and run high school bullshit offense where everyone had a spot to go to. That's not Magic not getting along with Kareem. That's Magic not wanting to piss his career away with Coach Dunning-Kruger who ran simplistic bullshit that didn't fly in the NBA.

2. Meh Pippen never wanted Jordan's role, never played it the year MJ was off playing baseball either.

3. What happened when Miami faced a deep team that had star players who actually fit together? Which is the exact situation the Spurs would find themselves in having to go through OKC every year.

4. What offensive system makes Giannis into a capable shooter to open up space for Wemby? Wemby needs to be developed as option #1, not a guy camping out at the three point line waiting for the kick out from Giannis. Wemby is the ascending asset, Giannis the depreciating one.

5. George was third in MVP voting and Kawhi was Finals MVP. That's two top 5 players. Two top 5 players who got in each other's ways.

This also isn't 2012 when you can just throw money at stars and not care about fit because who gives a shit, it's just some luxury tax. Now you lose draft picks, you lose the ability to make multiplayer trades, you lose the ability to sign guys to exceptions, or you have to just not add players to the roster to fill the holes left by having repetitive pieces taking your salary cap. The Spurs are fortunate to have talented players on cost controlled contracts and you're ready to throw that away to pay top dollar to a guy who's not likely to age well. This isn't Duncan throwing up easy baby hooks on the block or KD shooting jumpers all night, Giannis is like a fullback plowing into the lane every possession who is going to be taking a beating every night.

WALK down the hill and fuck 'em all, man

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Giannis is a top 5 player. Wemby is a top 5 player. It will work and it will bring championships. History says so.

I am a big fan of Giannis. I think it’s unfortunate how the roster around him fell apart in the last couple of seasons. I would love to see him come to San Antonio. But they don’t make moves like this. It would shake up the roster big time and they always seem to want to play the long game. I really have no idea where he ends up? I think Milwaukee will work with him on any trade because he’s been so amazing to that organization. Does he want to come to San Antonio? Maybe. He might love the idea of mentoring a young Victor while trying to win a couple of championships at the tail end of his career. I still don’t think San Antonio would make the move.

 

[KobesAchilles]

Probably in 2018-19 when he finished 3rd in MVP voting, 3rd in DPOY voting, made the All NBA 1st team and All Defensive 1st team... which is exactly when The Clippers traded for him.

And that was his only season where he played that well. Lots of people have fluke seasons. Lillard finished 4th one year. Celtics IT finished 5th. Blake Griffin finished 4th and so did Noah. They’re top 5 players? If you’re looking back now, is Paul George a top 5 player of his era?

Giannis has been playing MVP level basketball for 8 years now. Wemby is about to start his fucking dominance (individually).

 

[Kick-Stand]

Probably in 2018-19 when he finished 3rd in MVP voting, 3rd in DPOY voting, made the All NBA 1st team and All Defensive 1st team... which is exactly when The Clippers traded for him.

But but he wasn't a top 5 player when Kawhi got in his way.... oh wait

 

[Kick-Stand]

Giannis has been playing MVP level basketball for 8 years now. Wemby is about to start his fucking dominance (individually).

We're not trading for the Giannis of those previous eight years; we're talking about the next eight. If Jokic was ready to leave Denver I'd be all in on trading for him not only because of fit but because his game doesn't depend on athleticism or speed and he's still going to be amazing six years from now. Giannis you'd be praying he ages like LeBron and not like David Robinson or Shaq.

 

[scott]

And that was his only season where he played that well. Lots of people have fluke seasons. Lillard finished 4th one year. Celtics IT finished 5th. Blake Griffin finished 4th and so did Noah. They’re top 5 players? If you’re looking back now, is Paul George a top 5 player of his era?

Giannis has been playing MVP level basketball for 8 years now. Wemby is about to start his fucking dominance (individually).

You asked when Paul George was a Top 5 player. I gave you the answer.

Sorry the idea of the Spurs not getting Giannis is causing you so much personal anguish.

 

[ambchang]

Was there a fit problem with Shaq in Phoenix or was he just old, fat and unhealthy at that point? It was definitely the latter. Was not aware of the former. Or are you just saying it was a problem with money and gravity and ego and all that?

Giannis is the 3rd best player on earth, and earth currently has an insane amount of basketball talent. We’d probably have one of the best defenses of all time and we’re adding a guy who averages 30 on the other end. I agree the fit is clumsy as all hell and may not work but I don’t see any historical comparisons here. This would be an insane thing to witness.

…but we aren’t doing it.

I recalled them being huge for problems. Him being old fat and unhealthy was already known. He wasn’t playing all that well with Miami that year before he was traded. He actually rebounded the next year but the suns just got worse.

Suns was SSOL, fast, run up and down the court, lots of movement with Nash running that controlled chaos. Problem has always been defence and big man play, the donut team issue. Shaq doesn’t play much defence then but he is definitely big and could’ve supposedly solved their rebounding and inside scoring issues. So the idea, at least from what I recalled, is that Shaq can get them defensive rebounds and start fast breaks. In the half court he can then score inside and alleviate that issue. Didn’t work out that way. Shaq was still able to help score but he took up way too much space on offence and his plodding way slowed down the suns. The bigger problem, I recalled, was that he was so slow on defence that the suns just got significantly worse on that end, and they don’t have the personnel to cover up for shaqs refusal to pop on screens.

It was a bad fit and they called it quits in less than two years. Those were issues most people expected when they got Shaq, but theoretically if it worked the suns would solved their main problem.

 

[ambchang]

Yea people whining about fit are ridiculous. Our team doesn’t even fit this year. They probably won’t fit next year either. Or the year after. Unless Castle and Harper magically lean to shoot with our shitty unproven shooting coach.

Parker and Ginobili didn’t “fit.” And neither did Dave and Tim. Yet somehow we won 5 championships anyways. Giannis and Wemby do fit. Having the best player on the court for 48 minutes during the playoffs would be championship level that no other team can match. Imagine instead of having Sochan as the PF during Wembys break we have freaking Giannis.

Everyone said that Klay. KD and Curry wouldn’t fit. Same with Bosh LeBron and Wade. And don’t revisionist history me bc nobody said those players fit each other. Talent wins period

Point is Our team not fitting now will fit worse with Giannis. We need shooters.

Tim and Duncan not fitting was bs, people kept saying twin towers won’t work because it flamed out in Houston, despite it being together for only 2 years, made the finals once and was absolutely destroyed because of injuries and and uniquely Houston and Dallas drug issue in the 80s. Robinson and Duncan took a training camp to fit. They played great from the get go.

Giannis and wemby may fit as a duo, but the issue is still lack of shooting. Then on top of that we have to now deal with tax issues. If it fits and still get the outside shooters, great. If it doesn’t we now have to still find shooters, get playmakers again trade Giannis away for picks to rebuild.

Giannis is a very specific type of player to require a very specific team around him. The Spurs have wemby to be the Lopez type, and nothing else.

 

[Shmurs]

The problem is that you can’t just get “a shooter” and expect to improve. This is the buddy hield thing…you can find guys that can shoot but not well rounded guys that can shoot. So you pay 17 mill for Duncan Robinson and then what.

We aren’t going to be able to transform this team’s shooting capabilities in one year. Maybe not even in 2. Which means we’re that far away from a title. Giannis would mean we are trying to grab a title now.

And the fit isn’t worse with giannis. It’s better, in fact. Because he’s the 2nd/3rd best player on earth and all that. Seems like an important detail to weigh against his jump shot percentages

 

[spursparker9]

The problem is that you can’t just get “a shooter” and expect to improve. This is the buddy hield thing…you can find guys that can shoot but not well rounded guys that can shoot. So you pay 17 mill for Duncan Robinson and then what.

We aren’t going to be able to transform this team’s shooting capabilities in one year. Maybe not even in 2. Which means we’re that far away from a title. Giannis would mean we are trying to grab a title now.

And the fit isn’t worse with giannis. It’s better, in fact. Because he’s the 2nd/3rd best player on earth and all that. Seems like an important detail to weigh against his jump shot percentages

In short we need quality 3&D wings. 3&D stretch big would even better but that is very rare

 

[spursparker9]

I recalled them being huge for problems. Him being old fat and unhealthy was already known. He wasn’t playing all that well with Miami that year before he was traded. He actually rebounded the next year but the suns just got worse.

Suns was SSOL, fast, run up and down the court, lots of movement with Nash running that controlled chaos. Problem has always been defence and big man play, the donut team issue. Shaq doesn’t play much defence then but he is definitely big and could’ve supposedly solved their rebounding and inside scoring issues. So the idea, at least from what I recalled, is that Shaq can get them defensive rebounds and start fast breaks. In the half court he can then score inside and alleviate that issue. Didn’t work out that way. Shaq was still able to help score but he took up way too much space on offence and his plodding way slowed down the suns. The bigger problem, I recalled, was that he was so slow on defence that the suns just got significantly worse on that end, and they don’t have the personnel to cover up for shaqs refusal to pop on screens.

It was a bad fit and they called it quits in less than two years. Those were issues most people expected when they got Shaq, but theoretically if it worked the suns would solved their main problem.

Just wanted to comment that that period of Phoenix has probably the greatest medical team. Even Grant Hill on that team somehow extended his career and was a quality starter tbh.

Tbh MATFO should go headhunt that Phoenix medical team and get them here

Wemby will confirm be eligible for all future nba awards available

 

[KobesAchilles]

You asked when Paul George was a Top 5 player. I gave you the answer.

Sorry the idea of the Spurs not getting Giannis is causing you so much personal anguish.

No personal anguish. Thats a weird statement to make.

We just have differing opinions on what makes a top 5 player. For you it’s one fluke season and for me it isn’t. By your own standards Joakim Noah was also a top 5 player in the NBA. To me he never was.

Also you quoted a year which Kawhi and Paul George weren’t teammates so it’s a moot argument. So in the seasons they were actually paired, Paul George had zero MVP votes and zero All NBA 1st teams

 

[KobesAchilles]

Point is Our team not fitting now will fit worse with Giannis. We need shooters.

Tim and Duncan not fitting was bs, people kept saying twin towers won’t work because it flamed out in Houston, despite it being together for only 2 years, made the finals once and was absolutely destroyed because of injuries and and uniquely Houston and Dallas drug issue in the 80s. Robinson and Duncan took a training camp to fit. They played great from the get go.

Giannis and wemby may fit as a duo, but the issue is still lack of shooting. Then on top of that we have to now deal with tax issues. If it fits and still get the outside shooters, great. If it doesn’t we now have to still find shooters, get playmakers again trade Giannis away for picks to rebuild.

Giannis is a very specific type of player to require a very specific team around him. The Spurs have wemby to be the Lopez type, and nothing else.

And is keeping Castle and Harper going to fix our lack of shooting? We have this problem with or without Giannis.

Personally I’d rather have a guy give me 28 and 12 and more size and defense with no shooting than a guy like Castle who gives me the same no shooting ability and less of everything else.

People here have no issue with the overlap of guards who can’t shoot worth shit but all of a sudden cry foul to having two MVP level guys on the same team due to “lack of shooting.”

Imagine having Wemby go to the bench and instead of losing the lead we actually just pour it on instead bc we have Giannis and there’s no drop off of production.

 

[KobesAchilles]

1. Magic demanded the trade because yes Westhead told them not to run normal fast breaks and run high school bullshit offense where everyone had a spot to go to. That's not Magic not getting along with Kareem. That's Magic not wanting to piss his career away with Coach Dunning-Kruger who ran simplistic bullshit that didn't fly in the NBA.

2. Meh Pippen never wanted Jordan's role, never played it the year MJ was off playing baseball either.

3. What happened when Miami faced a deep team that had star players who actually fit together? Which is the exact situation the Spurs would find themselves in having to go through OKC every year.

4. What offensive system makes Giannis into a capable shooter to open up space for Wemby? Wemby needs to be developed as option #1, not a guy camping out at the three point line waiting for the kick out from Giannis. Wemby is the ascending asset, Giannis the depreciating one.

5. George was third in MVP voting and Kawhi was Finals MVP. That's two top 5 players. Two top 5 players who got in each other's ways.

This also isn't 2012 when you can just throw money at stars and not care about fit because who gives a shit, it's just some luxury tax. Now you lose draft picks, you lose the ability to make multiplayer trades, you lose the ability to sign guys to exceptions, or you have to just not add players to the roster to fill the holes left by having repetitive pieces taking your salary cap. The Spurs are fortunate to have talented players on cost controlled contracts and you're ready to throw that away to pay top dollar to a guy who's not likely to age well. This isn't Duncan throwing up easy baby hooks on the block or KD shooting jumpers all night, Giannis is like a fullback plowing into the lane every possession who is going to be taking a beating every night.

WALK down the hill and fuck 'em all, man

1.When did I say Magic didn’t get along with Kareem. I said their games didn’t mesh. Magic is a run and gun player. He was the best transition player of all time. He wanted to get out to the open floor. Kareem wasn’t that. And you literally proved my point. The coach wanted to play the opposite that Magic wanted to play. Through Kareem. Magic didn’t want a half court offense where he just 5 down every other play. Thats what Kareem was used to. They have both literally said they played different game styles from each other and had to learn how to adjust to each other bc of that. So if wrong on that the Kareem and Magic Johnson are also wrong and you’re the only one right I guess.

2. Roles don’t matter. You said that Wemby and Gianni’s would overlap with each other. I pointed out that Jordan and Pippen also overlapped with each other and that didn’t prevent them from winning. Their shot charts are all in the same spots for the most part seeing as they liked to operate in the same areas. Again I don’t see what you’re arguing about. Offensively they both operated from the post and midrange and in the open court. I’d like to see the argument otherwise. I’m all ears on that.

3. What happened to Miami? They made 4 straight finals and won 2 titles. The horror of it all. And their overwhelming talent won the majority of the series for them.

4. Funny how the only option for Wemby is to stand in the corner. I forgot all the times they made David Robinson stand in the corner 3 for Duncan in 1999. Pippen also was just a standin the corner guy too I guess since MJ played in the same space as Pippen offensively. Strange how that never really happened. Almost like that isn’t the only way to play Wemby.

5.George was 3rd in MVP voting when he was on the Clippers? I wasn’t aware of that. My bad. Oh wait a minute, he wasn’t. And he also never made another All NBA 1st team other than that one year in OKC so maybe he wasn’t a top 5 player and just had one good fluke year? I mean Joakim Noah was 4th in MVP one year and made an All NBA 1st team and won DPOY award. Guess he is a top 5 player too.

I don’t know what hill you’re talking about. But if being wrong was a talent, you’d be on the US Olympic team

 

[spurraider21]

the giannis/wemby fit is not a concern whatsoever on either end of the floor imo

there are reasons to oppose a trade but that aint one of em

 

[Exstatic]

the giannis/wemby fit is not a concern whatsoever on either end of the floor imo

there are reasons to oppose a trade but that aint one of em

Your opinion, and you’re entitled to it. I think they use the same spaces.

 

[spurraider21]

Your opinion, and you’re entitled to it. I think they use the same spaces.

floor is symmetrical and they can move around, occupy the baseline, etc. a lot of 4/5 ball screens, high-low stuff with giannis sealing inside and wemby at the nail. possibilities are endless

 

[Kick-Stand]

1.When did I say Magic didn’t get along with Kareem. I said their games didn’t mesh. Magic is a run and gun player. He was the best transition player of all time. He wanted to get out to the open floor. Kareem wasn’t that. And you literally proved my point. The coach wanted to play the opposite that Magic wanted to play. Through Kareem. Magic didn’t want a half court offense where he just 5 down every other play. Thats what Kareem was used to. They have both literally said they played different game styles from each other and had to learn how to adjust to each other bc of that. So if wrong on that the Kareem and Magic Johnson are also wrong and you’re the only one right I guess.

You can say their games don't mesh, but you sound like a dumbass when you do since Kareem was a great release valve in halfcourt possessions. And also lol proving your post by saying Magic didn't want to play for a coach running highschool bullshit.

2. Roles don’t matter. You said that Wemby and Gianni’s would overlap with each other. I pointed out that Jordan and Pippen also overlapped with each other and that didn’t prevent them from winning. Their shot charts are all in the same spots for the most part seeing as they liked to operate in the same areas. Again I don’t see what you’re arguing about. Offensively they both operated from the post and midrange and in the open court. I’d like to see the argument otherwise. I’m all ears on that.

That was everyone's shot chart in the 90s other than big men.

3. What happened to Miami? They made 4 straight finals and won 2 titles. The horror of it all. And their overwhelming talent won the majority of the series for them.

They lucked into the 2013 title when Parker got injured in Game 3 and the Spurs missed two easy rebounds and two free throws in Game 6 and then got completely wrecked the next Finals by a team where the pieces fit.

4. Funny how the only option for Wemby is to stand in the corner. I forgot all the times they made David Robinson stand in the corner 3 for Duncan in 1999. Pippen also was just a standin the corner guy too I guess since MJ played in the same space as Pippen offensively. Strange how that never really happened. Almost like that isn’t the only way to play Wemby.

So you want Wemby to take a backseat on offense like David did?

5.George was 3rd in MVP voting when he was on the Clippers? I wasn’t aware of that. My bad. Oh wait a minute, he wasn’t. And he also never made another All NBA 1st team other than that one year in OKC so maybe he wasn’t a top 5 player and just had one good fluke year? I mean Joakim Noah was 4th in MVP one year and made an All NBA 1st team and won DPOY award. Guess he is a top 5 player too.

This is really your absolute worst point. Top 5 player is no longer Top 5 when playing the same position as his Top 5 player teammate. No shit.

I don’t know what hill you’re talking about. But if being wrong was a talent, you’d be on the US Olympic team

WALK down the hill and fuck 'em all

 

[Kick-Stand]

the giannis/wemby fit is not a concern whatsoever on either end of the floor imo

there are reasons to oppose a trade but that aint one of em

My problem with it is someone has to take a major back seat and then you're either paying 35% of your cap after giving away all your flexibility to someone who no longer plays like a franchise player offensively or you're making your GOAT candidate take a backseat to a less talented guy instead of developing him to carry the team. And this is an era where having young guys on rookie deals is a godsend for avoiding the aprons as long as possible. Plus Giannis is on the wrong side of 30 and not likely to age well given his style of play. My worst fear is a situation like Barkley + Olajuwon where they took turns 50/50 on the low block and both ended up worse players for it. Hate the idea of Wemby/Giannis possibly doing similar in the high post which is by far the best position for both to play out of. It's a lot of opportunity cost vs having three high end point guards. Maybe @KobesAchilles thinks Harper and Castle suck in which case I can see trading for Giannis but these two plus Fox have proved to be a matchup nightmare for OKC with both of the young guys far from their prime forms. The grass is so fucking green in San Antonio I'm not doing anything to break this team up.

 

[Kick-Stand]

Imagine having Wemby go to the bench and instead of losing the lead we actually just pour it on instead bc we have Giannis and there’s no drop off of production.

I'd rather imagine having Wemby go to the bench and we still just pour it on because we have Harper and there is no drop off of production for ten years instead of three. And I imagine I still have Castle to make life hard for Luka / SGA / Ant with his physical defense. Wemby is not ready to carry the team to a title yet so why the rush to play for this year instead of a year or two down the line when he'll hopefully be conditioned for long seasons and heavy playoff minutes?

 

[Weeks]

I'd rather imagine having Wemby go to the bench and we still just pour it on because we have Harper and there is no drop off of production for ten years instead of three. And I imagine I still have Castle to make life hard for Luka / SGA / Ant with his physical defense. Wemby is not ready to carry the team to a title yet so why the rush to play for this year instead of a year or two down the line when he'll hopefully be conditioned for long seasons and heavy playoff minutes?

i think people that are in such a rush to get to the finals are afraid of wemby's longevity

 

[spurraider21]

My problem with it is someone has to take a major back seat and then you're either paying 35% of your cap after giving away all your flexibility to someone who no longer plays like a franchise player offensively or you're making your GOAT candidate take a backseat to a less talented guy instead of developing him to carry the team. And this is an era where having young guys on rookie deals is a godsend for avoiding the aprons as long as possible. Plus Giannis is on the wrong side of 30 and not likely to age well given his style of play. My worst fear is a situation like Barkley + Olajuwon where they took turns 50/50 on the low block and both ended up worse players for it. Hate the idea of Wemby/Giannis possibly doing similar in the high post which is by far the best position for both to play out of. It's a lot of opportunity cost vs having three high end point guards. Maybe @KobesAchilles thinks Harper and Castle suck in which case I can see trading for Giannis but these two plus Fox have proved to be a matchup nightmare for OKC with both of the young guys far from their prime forms. The grass is so fucking green in San Antonio I'm not doing anything to break this team up.

It’s not like we haven’t seen stud teams with two #1s thrive. I’m not worried about back seats. They’d open things up for one another to be more effective. And they will be force multipliers defensively.

As great as dream was, he wasn’t remarkably versatile. He was a post up scoring hub. Probably the best to ever do it, but he wasn’t a playmaker the way Giannis is or as Wemby has flashed nor did he have off ball pull the way Wemby does. We saw Wemby spoonfeed Sochan with layups just think of what he could do for Giannis.

My concerns are over age given Gianni’s’ athletic reliance, and giving up a potentially decade long run to shove the chips in during a time where Wemby is still years before his prime.

 

[Kick-Stand]

It’s not like we haven’t seen stud teams with two #1s thrive. I’m not worried about back seats. They’d open things up for one another to be more effective. And they will be force multipliers defensively.

As great as dream was, he wasn’t remarkably versatile. He was a post up scoring hub. Probably the best to ever do it, but he wasn’t a playmaker the way Giannis is or as Wemby has flashed nor did he have off ball pull the way Wemby does. We saw Wemby spoonfeed Sochan with layups just think of what he could do for Giannis.

My concerns are over age given Gianni’s’ athletic reliance, and giving up a potentially decade long run to shove the chips in during a time where Wemby is still years before his prime.

Olawjuon was a tremendous face up player in the high post too and he played in an era with illegal defenses where you couldn't load up on one man off the ball the way you can now. Hakeem could play like McHale or play like David Robinson. But your two biggest concerns are my two major concerns also.

 

[DTW]

The Heat look like the leader in the clubhouse.

If it's by the trade deadline, Herro, Rozier, Ware and multiple, mostly or fully unprotected 1sts as well as swaps for the Antetokounmpo brothers and Prince. If it's by the off season, swap Rozier's expiring with Jovic.

 

[scott]

The Heat look like the leader in the clubhouse.

If it's by the trade deadline, Herro, Rozier, Ware and multiple, mostly or fully unprotected 1sts as well as swaps for the Antetokounmpo brothers and Prince. If it's by the off season, swap Rozier's expiring with Jovic.

So long as he stays in the East I'll be excited to see how it develops!