Player The restricted-age video store section of Dylan Harper

[Guru of Nothing]

Maybe we draft Braylon Mullins this year to fill the role Kon would have played on Spurs. Kumbaya achieved.

 

[kxs783]

If you're looking at the Rookie of the year award as a metric for players, you're not even watching Harper.

The only reasoning why I haven't seen much of Harper is because he can't get the minutes above Fox or Castle. Which is crazy to have your #2 pick on the bench that much. And I only mentioned ROTY because DAS86 did.

 

[kxs783]

One good reason why he can't be point guard of the future is because Dylan Harper is the point guard of the future. Castle is big enough to play small forward. Right now.

Well right now Castle is operating as the PG of the future, so that's what I'm going by and I don't see that changing anytime soon. And Harper is just as big as Castle, so therefore he can play small forward by your logic.

 

[kxs783]

I think some of y'all on here might be Ron Harper Sr. on a burner account lol

 

[Sugus]

Outside of him needing to clean up his turnovers, which comes with time, you can't tell me one good reason why he can't be the point guard of the future. His assists are up. His ability to finish at the basket is there. His ability to draw in the defense and kick out to open teammates is there. His defense is there. Right now I don't see one thing that Harper does spectacularly better than him. Yes his jumpshot needs to improve but so does Harper's.

I'm waiting for some of the resident StatHeads to put some numbers on this (@scott pls), but just to give you an eye-test answer that isn't "Harper Gud PG", I'll say;

As great as Castle is, I don't see Primary Initiator in his game, and it's not only a matter of turnovers - he's quite un-creative in his drives, doesn't make the best use of screens set by Kornet and others to his advantage, and doesn't have the best fundamentals (the obvious example being his "jump-then-think" passes that go nowhere - that's not so easy to "clean up"). He's tremendous driving, yes, and makes some plays, but he's also not the best Triple Threat player, he can be schemed against.

OTOH, I see Harper having much better chemistry with Kornet, making much more advanced reads on-ball, having the better handles and ball security, and being much more creative in his drive and finishes. He looks like a "Fox-lite" where Castle does look more like a SF that needs to improve his outside shooting.

But again, some actual stats on this would be great, so we could stop the emotional discussion and look at the numbers. I feel like Harper already has the more efficient offensive game, and it's not surprising that Castle went an entire month being nigh-unplayable before getting out of the mud.

 

[Exstatic]

He is way better than what a lot of them here want to say but they're infatuated with Harper at the moment. Makes me think they have tunnel vision and really haven't watched 1 minute of Kon other than when he played the Spurs.It's ok to say both are great and have high ceilings, as do a few of the other drafted players.

I saw the spurs understand that he was a good shooter, do some ball denial, play some tight defense, and completely subtract Kon from their offense. That will happen in any game that matters by any team. Teams just DGAF about Charlotte.

 

[Sugus]

I think some of y'all on here might be Ron Harper Sr. on a burner account lol

Also, we're all just fans of the team, you know. Of course some posters are gonna "sound like his dad" when they're hyping Harper up, because he's really that good.

I don't miss Kon for a second and wouldn't have liked the Spurs to pass on Harper for him. Harper's on-ball creation combined with his physical attributes at the PG position are simply invaluable. He's a more consistent 3pt shot away from making Fox "expendable" in my eyes (not to say let's trade Fox away, just that we'd really have a perfect replacement for him in the bench).

 

[OK Computer]

Harper leading with Castle on bench, team goes up 10. He sits. Fans go, “the offense looked so much better when Harper was leading.”

Castle leading with Harper on bench, team goes up 15 (with Castle pretty much being the direct cause of it with his dishing and scoring). Silence.

This is how the game threads go.

Harper is the shiny new toy. Next year, if he gets to even start and doesn’t meet expectations, it will be an interesting read here.

 

[Chinook]

Night and day is a stretch lol. And he's getting 7 man minutes because he was the the #2 pick. That kind of comes with being picked high. Castle is getting praise around the league for a reason. You guys are just eager to put Harper in the starting lineup. No need to knock the play and advancement of Castle's play in JUST his second year. It's not hard to understand. Although a 3rd penetrating guard is very valuable, we already had 2 that were pretty great at it. And a shooter who can space the floor is just as valuable as that type of guard that you speak of. Also we still need to remember that Victor will eventually become the main offensive engine of this team once he progresses more offensively, so people making seem Harper will just skip what Vic, Fox and Harper can do just seems to get overlooked. You can look at any other team at the top of the league and see how their great outside shooting has helped them this year.

The Spurs have two absolute blue chips in Wemby and Harper. Like Castle, Kon is a great prospect, but a tier below blue chip. You don't trade two 5-stars and one 4-star for one 5-star and two 4-stars. Night and day is not a stretch, nor does it minimize what Castle has done. To put it another way: If the Spurs had drafted Harper in 2024, they probably don't trade for Fox, because they don't see point guard as a long-term need. I still think they draft Castle with Harper already on the team, because they know the guys can play together. While I imagine they'd love to keep them together long-term, the Spurs' future in the mid-term depends on them being able to accurately evaluate which of them is the better building piece if it does come to it.

The difference between the Spurs and others teams is that other elite teams will have more than one All-NBA guy this year (barring injuries), and the Spurs have one. Other teams have seasoned coaches, and the Spurs have basically a rookie in the chair. So yes, while you can see that other teams have had shooting help them (though to be honest, OKC and Detroit in particular are/were lacking in that regard in a way that completely undercuts the rebuttal you mad), you can see that the Spurs' choice has not only let them run pace with teams with better shooting, it's had them overcome a number of disadvantages they had on paper going into this season.

 

[Sugus]

Harper leading with Castle on bench, team goes up 10. He sits. Fans go, “the offense looked so much better when Harper was leading.”

Castle leading with Harper on bench, team goes up 15 (with Castle pretty much being the direct cause of it with his dishing and scoring). Silence.

This is how the game threads go.

Harper is the shiny new toy. Next year, if he gets to even start and doesn’t meet expectations, it will be an interesting read here.

While an accurate representation of game thread vibes in general, I don't think it's fair to forget about the month that Castle got to play "PG" and began to completely shit the bed with bad plays, turnovers, continuous drives into getting stuffed at the rim, etc.

Whenever Harper has a stretch like that, he should be criticized for it.... But it's been the opposite so far, and it's fair that the opinions reflect that

 

[DaSlicer]

Kon is absolutely NOT going to be Curry II. They’re not even the same type of player. Curry is an offensive engine/hub who creates his own shot any time, and shots for others. Kon IS ‘others’, the player who needs shot created for him.

Curry also has elite handles that allows him to create shots for himself off the dribble. I don't see Kon ever getting elite handles.

 

[Chinook]

Harper leading with Castle on bench, team goes up 10. He sits. Fans go, “the offense looked so much better when Harper was leading.”

Castle leading with Harper on bench, team goes up 15 (with Castle pretty much being the direct cause of it with his dishing and scoring). Silence.

This is how the game threads go.

Harper is the shiny new toy. Next year, if he gets to even start and doesn’t meet expectations, it will be an interesting read here.

Eh. I can't speak much on game threads, since I don't get to post during games much. But a big difference between how Steph and Dylan play on the court is that Mitch has no hesitation in pulling Harper when he makes a mistake, whereas he has a much longer leash on Castle. So there are more stretches where Steph is out of sorts and coughing up possession after possession while remaining in the game simply because Harper would have been pulled after the first or second bad play. Meanwhile if Harper gets a long burn, it's probably because he played well or at least consistently competently. So mostly independent of their abilities or short-comings Mitch creates situations where fans are going to have a better minute-to-minute impression of Dylan's performance than Steph's.

 

[Chinook]

Curry also has elite handles that allows him to create shots for himself off the dribble. I don't see Kon ever getting elite handles.

I think a lot of people didn't watch the Korver Hawks, so they don't have a ready example of what a system built around a dominate off-ball shooter that isn't a GOAT candidate actually looks like.

 

[elpimpo4cc]

Castle seems pretty 5 star to me tbh

 

[spursfanfromafar]

The Spurs have two absolute blue chips in Wemby and Harper. Like Castle, Kon is a great prospect, but a tier below blue chip. You don't trade two 5-stars and one 4-star for one 5-star and two 4-stars. Night and day is not a stretch, nor does it minimize what Castle has done. To put it another way: If the Spurs had drafted Harper in 2024, they probably don't trade for Fox, because they don't see point guard as a long-term need. I still think they draft Castle with Harper already on the team, because they know the guys can play together. While I imagine they'd love to keep them together long-term, the Spurs' future in the mid-term depends on them being able to accurately evaluate which of them is the better building piece if it does come to it.

The difference between the Spurs and others teams is that other elite teams will have more than one All-NBA guy this year (barring injuries), and the Spurs have one. Other teams have seasoned coaches, and the Spurs have basically a rookie in the chair. So yes, while you can see that other teams have had shooting help them (though to be honest, OKC and Detroit in particular are/were lacking in that regard in a way that completely undercuts the rebuttal you mad), you can see that the Spurs' choice has not only let them run pace with teams with better shooting, it's had them overcome a number of disadvantages they had on paper going into this season.

I would rate the three like this - Wemby is the five star. A generational superstar and the NBA's best ever defender already or in the making. Harper is in line to be a superstar someday when his jumper comes around and is learning to be a ner positive on offense without a three point making ability. And Castle is a star already with superstar potential as a two way monster. Whose jumper is coming around while he is dominating on defense and becoming a positive force on offense.

Knueppel is at best a star. Whose defense is so-so and he is never going to be a 2-way menace. He is ahead of Harper now because of his net positivity on offense but by next season, Harper will have overcome him as a contributor.

There are some half baked posters here who think that Knueppel on the Spurs would have been more useful than Harper. They are bloody wrong.

Having Fox, Castle and Harper to do the playmaking had freed up Wemby while Vassell, Champs, Keldon and Barnes to some extent have helped spread the floor to add balance. But the ceiling pushers have been Wemby and the guards. For sure.

 

[OK Computer]

While an accurate representation of game thread vibes in general, I don't think it's fair to forget about the month that Castle got to play "PG" and began to completely shit the bed with bad plays, turnovers, continuous drives into getting stuffed at the rim, etc.

Whenever Harper has a stretch like that, he should be criticized for it.... But it's been the opposite so far, and it's fair that the opinions reflect that

I get that Castle had a stretch in the season that was poor. He’s improved since then, and is often the player getting Wemby passes that others can’t do and shifting the game’s momentum that way. Speaking of improvement, we praise CB (including myself, who was critical of him) for his improvement over the course of season - why can we look past his previous blunders and can’t do the same for Castle?

“Whenever Harper has a stretch like that…” also sounds like you think he hasn’t had one this season? Maybe it’s just the wording. If not, this is false. There was a stretch where he was just bad and had missed shot after missed shot, with turnovers. People are just more willing to overlook that because it’s against other bench players and there’s usually less at stake. But herein lies the problem: we inflate his success against lesser players and look past his problems when they occur. I get it - it’s because he’s flashy and “different”. But I don’t like to count my chickens before they hatch. Harper has to prove a lot more (and I’m rooting for him) before he should be crowned as the de facto guard of the future. We’re already worried about how the contracts will fit years from now because we’re assuming he will be a max contract player. Don’t you think that’s a problem?

Like the Spurs themselves say, “we don’t skip steps” - I don’t think fans should either, as far as crowning players. A lot can change.

 

[elpimpo4cc]

I would rate the three like this - Wemby is the five star. A generational superstar and the NBA's best ever defender already or in the making. Harper is in line to be a superstar someday when his jumper comes around and is learning to be a ner positive on offense without a three point making ability. And Castle is a star already with superstar potential as a two way monster. Whose jumper is coming around while he is dominating on defense and becoming a positive force on offense.

Knueppel is at best a star. Whose defense is so-so and he is never going to be a 2-way menace. He is ahead of Harper now because of his net positivity on offense but by next season, Harper will have overcome him as a contributor.

There are some half baked posters here who think that Knueppel on the Spurs would have been more useful than Harper. They are bloody wrong.

Having Fox, Castle and Harper to do the playmaking had freed up Wemby while Vassell, Champs, Keldon and Barnes to some extent have helped spread the floor to add balance. But the ceiling pushers have been Wemby and the guards. For sure.

Kon probably makes the spurs better THIS year bc of position of need and relative age

 

[elpimpo4cc]

Kon probably makes the spurs better THIS year bc of position of need and relative age

Ummm actually subtract 'probably' bc I just looked at stats and kon is a fucking assassin from 3

 

[Chinook]

Kon probably makes the spurs better THIS year bc of position of need and relative age

I think that what people aren't getting is that having a third penetrating guard is one of the main reasons why the Spurs are in the position they're in right now. That's both because they needed the extra ball-handling and play-making early in the season to cover for injuries and because having the ability to play two such guards 48 minutes a night has helped them make come backs and overwhelm opponents numerous times.

The Spurs could have and probably should have tried harder to bring in good-shooting role-players (Bobby Portis would look so damned good on the team right now), but the Spurs would be a worse team THIS YEAR without Harper. Not only is his scoring, passing and defense so important, but he helps unlock Kornet so Luke's a two-way threat when Wemby sits, and he's allowed Castle to play hard D and throw his body around because he doesn't have to carry the team when Fox is on the bench. He's also helped keep Fox fresh, boosted Keldon's efficiency by taking over ball-handling duties off the bench, allowed Vassell to focus on shooting, etc. The Spurs simply wouldn't look like as deep of a team if they didn't have elite PG play coming off their bench.

 

[elpimpo4cc]

I think that what people aren't getting is that having a third penetrating guard is one of the main reasons why the Spurs are in the position they're in right now. That's both because they needed the extra ball-handling and play-making early in the season to cover for injuries and because having the ability to play two such guards 48 minutes a night has helped them make come backs and overwhelm opponents numerous times.

The Spurs could have and probably should have tried harder to bring in good-shooting role-players (Bobby Portis would look so damned good on the team right now), but the Spurs would be a worse team THIS YEAR without Harper.

Nope

 

[Chinook]

Nope

I mean, yeah. You were looking at Kon's stats, but apparently didn't bother to look into Harper's?

 

[kxs783]

I would rate the three like this - Wemby is the five star. A generational superstar and the NBA's best ever defender already or in the making. Harper is in line to be a superstar someday when his jumper comes around and is learning to be a ner positive on offense without a three point making ability. And Castle is a star already with superstar potential as a two way monster. Whose jumper is coming around while he is dominating on defense and becoming a positive force on offense.

Knueppel is at best a star. Whose defense is so-so and he is never going to be a 2-way menace. He is ahead of Harper now because of his net positivity on offense but by next season, Harper will have overcome him as a contributor.

There are some half baked posters here who think that Knueppel on the Spurs would have been more useful than Harper. They are bloody wrong.

Having Fox, Castle and Harper to do the playmaking had freed up Wemby while Vassell, Champs, Keldon and Barnes to some extent have helped spread the floor to add balance. But the ceiling pushers have been Wemby and the guards. For sure.

Half baked posters as if what you posted were facts. Your comment was as a half baked poster like the rest because it's based on assumptions just like the rest of ours.

 

[elpimpo4cc]

I mean, yeah. You were looking at Kon's stats, but apparently didn't bother to look into Harper's?

Yeah Harper sucks compared to kon

 

[elpimpo4cc]

Pretty simple. Kon is arguably the best 3pt shooter in the league this year. And spurs weakness is 3s. Harper is our 3rd best guard lol

 

[ambchang]

kon to me looks like a bigger slower Ray Allen. He’s going to be really ridiculously good. But I’m more than happy with Harper. Like I said earlier, I see a Brandon Roy 2.0 in him.