Game Thread Spurs (40-16) @ Pistons (42-13) (Mon 02/23/26) [6:00 PM CST] on Peacock

[Paramore]

 

[SpursBills]

In the Ringer's updated player top 100 player rankings, Wemby's playing with 2 other top 100 players while SGA's playing with 7 and Jokic plays with 4. If the Spurs end up finishing with the best record in the league or close especially combined with his counting stats and his winning record against OKC (TBD against Denver), it's sort of hard to argue that he's not the MVP under these circumstances. You either have to give Wemby credit or the rest of the team credit.

Spurs: 3
Wemby - 3
Fox - 29
Castle - 50

Thunder: 8
SGA - 2
Chet - 21
JDub - 30
IHart - 64
Caruso - 70
Dort - 80
Wallace - 81
Mitchell - 86

Nuggets: 5
Jokic - 1
Murray - 15
Gordon - 48
Watson - 67
Cam Johnson - 94

 

[dn0774]

In the Ringer's updated player top 100 player rankings, Wemby's playing with 2 other top 100 players while SGA's playing with 7 and Jokic plays with 4. If the Spurs end up finishing with the best record in the league or close especially combined with his counting stats and his winning record against OKC (TBD against Denver), it's sort of hard to argue that he's not the MVP under these circumstances. You either have to give Wemby credit or the rest of the team credit.

Spurs: 3
Wemby - 3
Fox - 29
Castle - 50

Thunder: 8
SGA - 2
Chet - 21
JDub - 30
IHart - 64
Caruso - 70
Dort - 80
Wallace - 81
Mitchell - 86

Nuggets: 5
Jokic - 1
Murray - 15
Gordon - 48
Watson - 67
Cam Johnson - 94

Crazy jump for Watson, I remember someone arguing he was worse than Sochan this season on this board somewhere. I also feel like Dort has had an under the radar shit season but idk.

 

[timtonymanu]

Favorite part of this game was when Julian got a 3 in the corner late and JB was screaming at him right behind him and he sank the three and turned around and I can only hope said "Shut the fuck up"

I rewatched it again and apparently that was Jarrett Jack, one of the assistants. Dude probably forgot for a moment that he’s a coach, not a player.

 

[scott]

I rewatched it again and apparently that was Jarrett Jack, one of the assistants. Dude probably forgot for a moment that he’s a coach, not a player.

Lots of comments on this play and how this was somehow inappropriate of Jack, but I didn't see it that way. All part of the game. Glad Jules made him eat it. No need to send the tape to the league, just keep draining that triple in their faces.

 

[heyheymymy]

I'm a big Fox fan and agree that Fox can positively impact games even when he is shooting poorly. But last night Fox was almost treading into give-the-game-away level poor shooting. Freaks me out against a good team like DET, they could pounce on that.

 

[Sugus]

I'll counter this by point out that despite a horrible shooting night, Fox actually impacted the game quite positively that was vital to the success of the team and outside of scoring played a really good game in the highest stakes environment we've seen this season.

Thanks for the writeup, Scott, appreciated as always! I'll address some specific points as I do agree overall with your assessment, and as I said, hard to complain much with the way the team overall is playing. But some points I think are still worth raising;

There needs to come an acceptance that if you want Fox to be a 25ppg scorer, you're going to be disappointed. This isn't the way the Spurs are going to play. The team's offensive identity is clearly based around a theory of diversification, as evidenced by 8 players averaging double digits, a rare feat (though we would not be the first - as I've heard mentioned in broadcasts. The Heat actually accomplished for several consecutive seasons a few years ago).

I don't care about scoring averages at all, FWIW, but I'll echo spurraider21's sentiment because it's a recurring pattern at this point; Fox had some assists and nice plays, but overall was 4-17 from the field - very underwhelming from a scoring guard. It's not just the numbers either; I'm concerned that he can't adjust to physical defenses, which the Spurs have shown to be the single most effective way to play against Wemby. What's gonna happen when we get the Thunder or Pistons in a 7-game series of physical play - will lousy scoring nights from our All-Star as the norm be acceptable? I'd trade some assists for those makes, tbh. The "8 players in double digits" isn't very relevant to me -- we all know that doesn't fly so much in the playoffs, when transition offense stalls and you're backed in a corner. Your stars need to make points happen, and I've been underwhelmed on that department with Fox.

There has been talk of the idea of "flipping the switch" and Fox becoming a more dominant scorer at one point... but why are we operating under the assumption the Spurs would do this? That's not the way they are designed - why would the Spurs spend the entire season building this largely diversified offensive attack, only then to transition to having it revolve around one or two players?

That's cute and healthy, again, in the RS, but again, not quite playoff-style. Look no further than the Warriors, maybe the most "egalitarian" example of a repeated champion (the '14 Spurs are obvious outliers) -- as unselfish as Curry was, they absolutely resorted to spamming the Curry-Draymond PnR in late-game situations, and there's a reason for it. Chinook said this as well - our shooters won't bring it every game, we lost the rebounding battle, and can't count on that outlier shooting every game. What we could count on is a Wemby/Fox PnR...... Which again, if Mitch is hiding, he's a genius - but it's a no-show thus far. I'm simply not ready to trust the Power Of Friendship Offense to win us the Conference Finals, for example.

Now, to the point of Fox's contract... it is definitely a fair question to ask if it is worth paying a max contract for someone playing this role. I've said multiple times that if this is how you're going to play Fox, I wouldn't give up all we gave up nor hand out a max contract... but at some point we just have to accept that we did and that this is the gameplan that the staff feels best positions us to win. There is no undoing the trade or the contract... there is only deploying him in the way that best suits the team, and I feel like we're doing that.

Agreed here and worth mentioning that Fox's mentality and vibes are obviously a big positive for the team. I'm not advocating for trading him out or undoing the trade at all - rather I'd like for Mitch to give Harper or Castle a "designated rest game" and switch Fox's role into a more realistic/typical All-Star PG game. If nothing else, to give the Spurs even more flexibility and options before the playoffs begin and practice time is over.

And then with that, I'll ask a very results-focused question... would you be happier if we had less wins but Fox were averaging 25ppg at the expense of Castle, Harper, Vassell and Champagnie scoring? (...) the main gripe about him seems to be that he isn't matching the pre-conceived notion of what we think a Max Player should be doing... but perhaps that's not Fox's shortcoming, but rather it is ours as fans.

Of course not, BUT, I don't think your conception is quite right either. It's not about his Max salary, it's about his 1B role on the team that I feel he isn't living up to. Think it like this: we know the playoffs are carried by Stars (there's hardly any Champions that didn't have a 1A star to lead them - even '14 had Kawhi or Timmy to the rescue), and we see that our 1A star, while otherworldly, isn't very good at "forcing the issue" and calling his numbers - it's been bad in the RS and likely won't improve in the POs until he gets a go-to move. So, when Devin and Champ are missing their 3's, Castle's turning it over and not getting calls, and Wemby's getting stripped on every drive (all very reasonable to assume) -- who is making the scoring?

The Spurs just don't have that "go-to play" to get them out of ruts, and I fear it'll take a disappointing playoff loss for them to realize this. But, hey, I recognize it's a nitpick and I'm extremely pleased with the results so far. Just something I'll be keeping an eye out for.

 

[100%Duncan]

I'll counter this by point out that despite a horrible shooting night, Fox actually impacted the game quite positively that was vital to the success of the team and outside of scoring played a really good game in the highest stakes environment we've seen this season.

We didn't lose a single minute when Fox was on the floor last night, as he contributed 7 reb and 7 assists. His poise and care was critical last night against a team that thrives on turning the ball over and creating points off turnovers. His drives last night opened up our offense tremendously. He had a big brain set of back to back plays early in the 2nd half that were also huge - he blew past cade and juked him in the paint for a layup. Very next time down the court, he does the exact same thing but pump fakes Cade into his 4th foul. This was one of those huge overlooked moments in the game that completely changed the way the Pistons played defense the rest of the quarter, and the Spurs relentlessly went after Cade after that. They tried to hide him on Vassell so we immediately started feeding Vassell. They were screening to get Cade switched onto Fox, Castle and Harper so they could continue to attack him. This was absolutely critical to how we won the second half, and it came about from Fox's veteran savvy.

There needs to come an acceptance that if you want Fox to be a 25ppg scorer, you're going to be disappointed. This isn't the way the Spurs are going to play. The team's offensive identity is clearly based around a theory of diversification, as evidenced by 8 players averaging double digits, a rare feat (though we would not be the first - as I've heard mentioned in broadcasts. The Heat actually accomplished for several consecutive seasons a few years ago).

There has been talk of the idea of "flipping the switch" and Fox becoming a more dominant scorer at one point... but why are we operating under the assumption the Spurs would do this? That's not the way they are designed - why would the Spurs spend the entire season building this largely diversified offensive attack, only then to transition to having it revolve around one or two players? The Spurs strength is that we are not reliant upon individuals. We can survive Wemby, Fox and Castle combining to go 17/49 because we don't rely on them to be efficient scorers to win game. This is not accidental, it's by design. We didn't merely survive an off offensive night from our 3 best players... our system worked in overcoming it.

Now, to the point of Fox's contract... it is definitely a fair question to ask if it is worth paying a max contract for someone playing this role. I've said multiple times that if this is how you're going to play Fox, I wouldn't give up all we gave up nor hand out a max contract... but at some point we just have to accept that we did and that this is the gameplan that the staff feels best positions us to win. There is no undoing the trade or the contract... there is only deploying him in the way that best suits the team, and I feel like we're doing that.

And then with that, I'll ask a very results-focused question... would you be happier if we had less wins but Fox were averaging 25ppg at the expense of Castle, Harper, Vassell and Champagnie scoring? At the end of the day, the objective of the game is to win and if you're quibbling over individual stats and looking past the results, you've kind of lost the plot. Neither advanced stats nor the eye test tells me that Fox isn't doing anything but helping the team... the main gripe about him seems to be that he isn't matching the pre-conceived notion of what we think a Max Player should be doing... but perhaps that's not Fox's shortcoming, but rather it is ours as fans.

Edit: I'll add, listen to Jared Weiss around the 29:30 mark here, talking about how Fox controlled the tempo in the second half last night.

These are the little things that go unnoticed, because we have an expectations for Max players to be headline stat producers, but that's not the way the Spurs are using Fox.

Reasonable post tbh. Im ready to eat crow in the playoffs if this really comes to fruition.


Still think tho that Fox is and should be the clear #2, whatever ppg that may be.

 

[DAF86]

Fox play is all good and dandy as long as we're winning, but the moment we get eliminated with him scoring 10 pts on 4/17 shooting, shit becomes a problem. I love that Fox has bought in and seems unbothered by getting "mah touches", but when the team needs buckets, he has to provide them. That's why he was brought here and got paid.

 

[Exstatic]

Fox play is all good and dandy as long as we're winning, but the moment we get eliminated with him scoring 10 pts on 4/17 shooting, shit becomes a problem. I love that Fox has bought in and seems unbothered by getting "mah touches", but when the team needs buckets, he has to provide them. That's why he was brought here and got paid.

Are you forgetting when Wemby was out, and Fox fucking carried us? He’s one of the best players we could have obtained, because his game scales up or down, and he’s willing to do so.

 

[scott]

Thanks for the writeup, Scott, appreciated as always! I'll address some specific points as I do agree overall with your assessment, and as I said, hard to complain much with the way the team overall is playing. But some points I think are still worth raising;


I don't care about scoring averages at all, FWIW, but I'll echo spurraider21's sentiment because it's a recurring pattern at this point; Fox had some assists and nice plays, but overall was 4-17 from the field - very underwhelming from a scoring guard. It's not just the numbers either; I'm concerned that he can't adjust to physical defenses, which the Spurs have shown to be the single most effective way to play against Wemby. What's gonna happen when we get the Thunder or Pistons in a 7-game series of physical play - will lousy scoring nights from our All-Star as the norm be acceptable? I'd trade some assists for those makes, tbh. The "8 players in double digits" isn't very relevant to me -- we all know that doesn't fly so much in the playoffs, when transition offense stalls and you're backed in a corner. Your stars need to make points happen, and I've been underwhelmed on that department with Fox.


That's cute and healthy, again, in the RS, but again, not quite playoff-style. Look no further than the Warriors, maybe the most "egalitarian" example of a repeated champion (the '14 Spurs are obvious outliers) -- as unselfish as Curry was, they absolutely resorted to spamming the Curry-Draymond PnR in late-game situations, and there's a reason for it. Chinook said this as well - our shooters won't bring it every game, we lost the rebounding battle, and can't count on that outlier shooting every game. What we could count on is a Wemby/Fox PnR...... Which again, if Mitch is hiding, he's a genius - but it's a no-show thus far. I'm simply not ready to trust the Power Of Friendship Offense to win us the Conference Finals, for example.


Agreed here and worth mentioning that Fox's mentality and vibes are obviously a big positive for the team. I'm not advocating for trading him out or undoing the trade at all - rather I'd like for Mitch to give Harper or Castle a "designated rest game" and switch Fox's role into a more realistic/typical All-Star PG game. If nothing else, to give the Spurs even more flexibility and options before the playoffs begin and practice time is over.


Of course not, BUT, I don't think your conception is quite right either. It's not about his Max salary, it's about his 1B role on the team that I feel he isn't living up to. Think it like this: we know the playoffs are carried by Stars (there's hardly any Champions that didn't have a 1A star to lead them - even '14 had Kawhi or Timmy to the rescue), and we see that our 1A star, while otherworldly, isn't very good at "forcing the issue" and calling his numbers - it's been bad in the RS and likely won't improve in the POs until he gets a go-to move. So, when Devin and Champ are missing their 3's, Castle's turning it over and not getting calls, and Wemby's getting stripped on every drive (all very reasonable to assume) -- who is making the scoring?

The Spurs just don't have that "go-to play" to get them out of ruts, and I fear it'll take a disappointing playoff loss for them to realize this. But, hey, I recognize it's a nitpick and I'm extremely pleased with the results so far. Just something I'll be keeping an eye out for.

There are two primary things I'd like to respond to here:

1. A balanced, diversified offensive attack is not playoff-style. You pointed at the Warriors as evidence of how a team reverts to spamming their top player... but why? We can look at our own franchise's history as evidence that we don't transition our offense away from it's regular season self in the playoffs. If we look at our top 3 options on our last 5 finals teams (I didn't include 1999-2000 because my source is missing Duncan's playoff USG), we can see that the USG% of our top 3 options doesn't really change from the regular season to the playoffs. Even in the years when it went up (2005 and 2007), it was fairly marginal. Nothing about our own championship pedigree suggests that we flip a switch come playoff time - we pretty much stick to who we are. With that said, obviously this is a different team and a different coach... but I'd say this remains our DNA.



2. Fox isn't living up to his 1B role on the team. I'd push back on this and say... his role isn't actually 1B on this team (whether or not it should be since he's a max player is another question for another day and it's not our call). Fox is behind Castle in USG%, and the gap between them continues to widen. Fox is significantly more efficient, but Castle is our clear 2nd option on offense (again, whether he should be is a conversation for another day). Here is a running USG tracker I have that looks at the season broken up into "blocks" around when guys were out with injuries.



I did want to also address some interesting things you called out:

I'm concerned that he can't adjust to physical defenses, which the Spurs have shown to be the single most effective way to play against Wemby. What's gonna happen when we get the Thunder or Pistons in a 7-game series of physical play

I'm not sure "physical defenses" are the single most effective way to play against Wemby, at least not the way the Thunder or Pistons are playing physical. We're 5-1 against those teams with a plus +37 across those 6 games, and that includes a lopsided 21 point loss in the 4th OKC game. I think we actually match up quite well against those two specific teams. They might be tough matchups for Fox individually from a scoring POV (though he's had some nice games against OKC as well)... but for the team, I'm as confident against them as I am against anyone. Yes, those games will be tough and we may lose a 7-game series because those are two great teams... but I don't think it's because we'll be overwhelmed by their physicality (though I may live to regret thinking this).

I also wanted to respond to this:

So, when Devin and Champ are missing their 3's, Castle's turning it over and not getting calls, and Wemby's getting stripped on every drive (all very reasonable to assume) -- who is making the scoring?

If all those things happen... we're probably losing the game, and Fox scoring 30 isn't going to change that. That isn't an indictment on our team, that's true of pretty much any team. That isn't a reason to further focus your offense in one place, it's all the more reason why our diversified offense attack is so good. We can afford for guys to have off nights and overcome them. But yeah, when everyone has an off night at the same time... we're gonna lose.

 

[scott]

Fox play is all good and dandy as long as we're winning, but the moment we get eliminated with him scoring 10 pts on 4/17 shooting, shit becomes a problem. I love that Fox has bought in and seems unbothered by getting "mah touches", but when the team needs buckets, he has to provide them. That's why he was brought here and got paid.

Wanted to say... that despite what I've written here... this is also true. The criticism that will come with a performance like this will be loud and deserved, until shut down at the next opportunity. Just like I will forever "lol Playoff Harden", Fox putting up a stinker in an elimination game will also be a stain on his image and reputation.

The same will also be true of Wemby though, not because he's on a max contract but because he's widely seen as a Top 5 player who is now getting well deserved MVP buzz.

Castle is the guy who will be able to escape criticism a little more if he had that kind of performance in an elimination game, because people will say "he's young" and also he's kind of inefficient to begin with so it wouldn't be totally uncharacteristic... but the criticism will still be there to some degree.

Bottom line... yeah, if you don't show up when you are needed most... the criticism will be significant.

 

[Seventyniner]

(I didn't include 1999-2000 because my source is missing Duncan's playoff USG)

Maybe that was tongue-in-cheek but Duncan didn't play in the 2000 playoffs.

 

[Exstatic]

We got a guy who is an All Star, has an All NBA selection under his belt, has dropped a sixty piece, and yet is willing to play a team game. No whining about Muh Touches. He’s the ultimate In Case Of Emergency Break Glass guy, and Super De’Aaron will be there if we need him, as witnessed by the stretch without Wemby.

 

[scott]

Maybe that was tongue-in-cheek but Duncan didn't play in the 2000 playoffs.

Sorry meant to say 1998-99, but I was looking at the wrong year... so that's why it didn't have it's USG

 

[DAF86]

Are you forgetting when Wemby was out, and Fox fucking carried us? He’s one of the best players we could have obtained, because his game scales up or down, and he’s willing to do so.

I'm not forgetting anything nor I am attacking Fox in any way. I'm just saying that IF there comes a time where the Spurs need 25 ppg Fox, he needs to step up because that's why he was brought up here. These 15 ppg, "I'm letting everybody eat" type games won't fly in a series where the Spurs are getting beat and need buckets in bunches.

If we win the whole thing with Fox averaging 10 ppg, I would be the happiest man alive.

 

[BSfromTX]

1. You have to give credit to Detroits defense. They smothered Fox. Best defense against us that I can recall so far this year. Maybe thats why DV and JC got good looks?
2. Most nights Fox gives us buckets and lots of them
3. This team has more offensive firepower than any other spurs team that I can think of, and if anyone is expected to get us a bucket, it would be Wemby first.

Against a team like Detroit, guys are going to have bad games. I would be willing to bet Fox figures out a defense like that in a 7 game series and does better with each game

 

[DTW]

The Pistons are the East version of the Rockets, only they have a lead guard and a high end one at that. But no secondary creator, terrible shooting, including two of their three best players being non ones and no plan B when trying to out physical and tough you doesn't work.

And as the league has quickly found out, that doesn't work against the Spurs.

 

[BatManu20]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2026789456808706528

 

[Uriel]

Poeltl or Kornet? Who would you rather have?

 

[tearsofmorningdew]

Poeltl or Kornet? Who would you rather have?

kornet. Poeltl has that unenvolved human double digit IQ vibe. Quentin Post another one of those

 

[spurraider21]

Poeltl or Kornet? Who would you rather have?

Jakob is proven to be a solid starting caliber center whereas Kornet at this point is a solid backup. you know you can give Jakob 32 minutes and he'll hold up. they're also both 30, poeltl is getting paid way more (about 28 mil per year), and he has been consistently injured for 3 straight years now