Sean Swinney will be the head coach next season

[MannyIG]

Hmm, wonder why Mitch isn't just playing him 30 minutes a game?

 

[MannyIG]

It's from basketball-reference. And that game is just an example, he's been doing it a lot this season.
Harper's minutes were always low, even when he scored 20 he was limited to just 26 minutes.

I agree, it's not complicated. Mitch complicates it.

Can you explain to me why you would play a guy who's obviously hitting the Rookie wall and adapting to it about 40% more minutes than he's currently having trouble maintaining? How does that make sense?

Do you guys know why bench player are able to come in and play with much higher energy than someone averaging 35 mpg? Its the same reason Usain Bolt wasn't the fastest at running the mile. Honestly the fact that the criticism is this asinine shows how weak the case against Johnson actually is. There aren't real problems to be concerned about with the coaching so we're left with "but he doens't play Harper a few minutes more" and "he had an 11 man rotation on the front end of a back to back".

 

[LeBowen]

Can you explain to me why you would play a guy who's obviously hitting the Rookie wall and adapting to it about 40% more minutes than he's currently having trouble maintaining? How does that make sense?

Do you guys know why bench player are able to come in and play with much higher energy than someone averaging 35 mpg? Its the same reason Usain Bolt wasn't the fastest at running the mile. Honestly the fact that the criticism is this asinine shows how weak the case against Johnson actually is. There aren't real problems to be concerned about with the coaching so we're left with "but he doens't play Harper a few minutes more" and "he had an 11 man rotation on the front end of a back to back".

As I said, his minutes were low even before his recent struggles.
Castle has been just as bad as of late, but is playing the most minutes since Devin went down.
Meaning that it's not about pritoritizing development over winning like some people are trying to point out, but that Mitch believes it's the optimal rotation for winning games.

The bench analogy you tried to make is nonsense.

The case against Mitch looks weak if you don't go in depth because the record is good. If we were 10-13 instead of 15-8 in the clutch, Spurs fanbase would be in full meltdown mode right now.

Then the question presents itself is Mitch resposnsible for our 15-8 clutch record or it's about Fox and Wemby bailing us out with their individual quality.

 

[MannyIG]

Its about Fox and Wemby bailing us out with their individual quality because we are a mainly young team that is OVER ACHIEVING! That's kind of the point! Not to mention that is exactly how good teams in the NBA typically operate until they are GREAT teams. They get bailed out by their stars.

Castle is playing more becuase he's had multiple years in an NBA conditioning program and hasnt' had multiple extended absences due to injury. Do you really not understand how one player is clearly being held back by not being physically ready yet when compared to the other?

 

[LeBowen]

Exactly. The point is that we're overachieving because of individual brilliance and not great coaching, at least not on offense.

Over the past 15 games we have 24th ORTG and 29th TS%.
Thats with Wemby averaging 25ppg on 52/39/87 in that period.
Superstars do their thing, others need coaching.
And others have received very little help to be set up in good positions over the past month.
Castle is basically told to pound the rock and play through his struggles. As I posted before, I don't think his struggles are of sophmore wall or whatever you want to call it nature, but it's about him being figured out and needing to adapt.

Harper had just one absence, returned 2 months ago, but apparently doesn't have the conditioning for more than 21mpg, which is the lowest out of any regular rotation member.

 

[scott]

How unlucky of us to draft the one guy physically unready and unable to play more minutes at the age of 19, and at #2 no less.

 

[100%Duncan]

This “It’s (insert whatever early month it is in the season), relax” schtick really fucking irks me when Im a fan of a team who hasnt even gotten to the play-in.

 

[MannyIG]

How unlucky of us to draft the one guy physically unready and unable to play more minutes at the age of 19, and at #2 no less.

its not a matter of able to. I'm sure Harper can go out there and play 30 minutes ago but it does seem like playing him more when he's been showing obvious signs of physical and mental fatigue AND you are trying to field a winning team is stupid. I am as big a fan of Harper as there is on this site, but I've seen very little over the past month that has left me wanting him to be playing more. It's not like he's shining in his time as it is. He's not awful, but he's clearly struggling over the past month. He's coming out of that a bit, so maybe the minutes will increase, but it seems pretty obvious to me why his minutes haven't gone up with Devin out.

 

[MannyIG]

This “It’s (insert whatever early month it is in the season), relax” schtick really fucking irks me when Im a fan of a team who hasnt even gotten to the play-in.

Ok so then when is the coach supposed to see if the guys at the end of the bench? Only in camp? It's not like the argument is that we should throw games in January its that maybe you should let them use the season to actually figure out what the rotation should be.

 

[MannyIG]

Exactly. The point is that we're overachieving because of individual brilliance and not great coaching, at least not on offense.

Yes, welcome to how good teams operate in the NBA. Stars win the games. The next coach that elevates teams without hall of famers to an NBA title will be the first.

Is your argument that the Spurs would be this good with just anyone at the helm? Have you guys already forgotten what a shit show the last few years were RE: bad coaching? You literally have had 4-5 years of exceptionally bad coaching to compare this season to, and you are still acting like what Mitch is doing is that. It's just insane. Just look at how Keldon is playing. It's not like Keldon magically became a different and wiser player over the last year. He's being placed in a position where he can shine. THAT is what you want from a coach.

 

[Ice009]

If Dylan was drafted by Brooklyn, he'd be averaging probably 33-35 minutes a game. I don't understand why you're making excuses for him not playing. How is he fatigued when he's played less minutes than most of the guys on his team that are in the rotation? If he's that physically and mentally fatigued, maybe the Spurs shouldn't have drafted him, because that is a joke with the minutes he's gotten. Maybe he could be a little mentally fatigued due to having to adjust with the changes from college to the NBA with the travelling, but he shouldn't be that physically fatigued. He hasn't played the minutes of other top draft picks and they seem to be doing OK.

 

[BacktoBasics]

If Dylan was drafted by Brooklyn, he'd be averaging probably 33-35 minutes a game. I don't understand why you're making excuses for him not playing. How is he fatigued when he's played less minutes than most of the guys on his team that are in the rotation? If he's that physically and mentally fatigued, maybe the Spurs shouldn't have drafted him, because that is a joke with the minutes he's gotten. Maybe he could be a little mentally fatigued due to having to adjust with the changes from college to the NBA with the travelling, but he shouldn't be that physically fatigued. He hasn't played the minutes of other top draft picks and they seem to be doing OK.

That’s not a good comp. Getting bigger minutes on a toilet team isn’t really a strong argument.

 

[Ice009]

Alright, how about this then. I believe if every other NBA team had the second pick and drafted him, he'd be playing more minutes than he does with the Spurs on almost all of them.

 

[scott]

its not a matter of able to. I'm sure Harper can go out there and play 30 minutes ago but it does seem like playing him more when he's been showing obvious signs of physical and mental fatigue AND you are trying to field a winning team is stupid. I am as big a fan of Harper as there is on this site, but I've seen very little over the past month that has left me wanting him to be playing more. It's not like he's shining in his time as it is. He's not awful, but he's clearly struggling over the past month. He's coming out of that a bit, so maybe the minutes will increase, but it seems pretty obvious to me why his minutes haven't gone up with Devin out.

Respectfully (and I do mean that, I hope you know, since we actually know each other IRL... everyone else I think is just a simulation),

I actually don't have a problem with Harper's minutes though I can point to a few games where it would have been in our interest to play him more (when he played well).

But, I do find it inconsistent to say on one hand we shouldn't play Harper more minutes because he's hit a rookie wall and not playing well, and suggest he is physically unready (which is how I interpreted Post #79, correct me if I read that wrong)... but on the other hand we are having PG Castle crammed down our throats because of development. Castle is also not playing well in this role, but we keep going back to that well.

The idea that PG Castle is about development is interesting, but it's illogical to me. Why would we be so focused on developing Castle as a primary ball handling lead guard when we just gave a Max Deal to a primary ball handling lead guard and used a #2 pick on a primary ball handling lead guard? It's just an inefficient use of assets. Why not develop Castle in a role that I believe he is also capable of being highly proficient in and likely fits our team better long term: off-ball cutter and secondary creator?

I also understand the premise behind "we're not going to win anyway so let's just develop"... but it's kind of contradicted by the fact that we are winning. We have the third best record, have a fantastic record against the other top teams in the league, including the best team, and still haven't played many games at full strength. It seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy to not be good enough. We're definitely not going to win if we give up before we even give ourselves a chance.

With all that said, I think the Mitch doom is definitely overblown. I've said it before, I'll say it again... we're a little ahead of schedule and that exposes some of Mitch's weaknesses, because he wasn't expected to be the coach of the third best team in the league... he was expected to take the smaller steps along the way with the team. But, he still has an opportunity to catch up, and I think he's smart enough to. I'm looking forward to what adjustments he'll make. I think it is definitely worth pointing out that Vassell being out has Mitch searching for solutions in the rotation that just aren't there. That isn't his fault. But at the same time... I still want him to take care of the low hanging fruit (such as... put the ball in Fox's hands!). There is no need to sacrifice winning in the name of development... we can do both.

Anyway, this season has been fun and I love it. With that said, it's been so long since we've been good and there has been an expectation of winning that I forgot how completely unhinged some Spurs fans get when we lose

 

[100%Duncan]

Ok so then when is the coach supposed to see if the guys at the end of the bench? Only in camp? It's not like the argument is that we should throw games in January its that maybe you should let them use the season to actually figure out what the rotation should be.

The rotations, the short and long leashes on the players, the inability to adapt in-game are all valid criticisms of Mitch and the entire coaching staff regardless of the win-loss record or what month of it is in the year.

I dont care to argue with you or prove any point to you as a lot of guys here have already said what I would say.

 

[MannyIG]

Respectfully (and I do mean that, I hope you know, since we actually know each other IRL... everyone else I think is just a simulation),

I actually don't have a problem with Harper's minutes though I can point to a few games where it would have been in our interest to play him more (when he played well).

But, I do find it inconsistent to say on one hand we shouldn't play Harper more minutes because he's hit a rookie wall and not playing well, and suggest he is physically unready (which is how I interpreted Post #79, correct me if I read that wrong)... but on the other hand we are having PG Castle crammed down our throats because of development. Castle is also not playing well in this role, but we keep going back to that well.

The idea that PG Castle is about development is interesting, but it's illogical to me. Why would we be so focused on developing Castle as a primary ball handling lead guard when we just gave a Max Deal to a primary ball handling lead guard and used a #2 pick on a primary ball handling lead guard? It's just an inefficient use of assets. Why not develop Castle in a role that I believe he is also capable of being highly proficient in and likely fits our team better long term: off-ball cutter and secondary creator?

I also understand the premise behind "we're not going to win anyway so let's just develop"... but it's kind of contradicted by the fact that we are winning. We have the third best record, have a fantastic record against the other top teams in the league, including the best team, and still haven't played many games at full strength. It seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy to not be good enough. We're definitely not going to win if we give up before we even give ourselves a chance.

With all that said, I think the Mitch doom is definitely overblown. I've said it before, I'll say it again... we're a little ahead of schedule and that exposes some of Mitch's weaknesses, because he wasn't expected to be the coach of the third best team in the league... he was expected to take the smaller steps along the way with the team. But, he still has an opportunity to catch up, and I think he's smart enough to. I'm looking forward to what adjustments he'll make. I think it is definitely worth pointing out that Vassell being out has Mitch searching for solutions in the rotation that just aren't there. That isn't his fault. But at the same time... I still want him to take care of the low hanging fruit (such as... put the ball in Fox's hands!). There is no need to sacrifice winning in the name of development... we can do both.

Anyway, this season has been fun and I love it. With that said, it's been so long since we've been good and there has been an expectation of winning that I forgot how completely unhinged some Spurs fans get when we lose

I think Castle and Harper are sitting/playing for different reasons. Like I said, one has had two significant injuries this season and has shown real signs of fatigue in the last month and the other hasn't. They've both struggled, but I think for different reasons and thats important. All that being said, if I'm honest I don't think Castle is the long term answer at PG and I woudln't be taking the path with developing him the way I think Mitch is. I just don't think its an outlandish decision. I also do think Harpers minutes are going to ramp up if he indeed has turned a corner.

The rotations, the short and long leashes on the players, the inability to adapt in-game are all valid criticisms of Mitch and the entire coaching staff regardless of the win-loss record or what month of it is in the year.

I dont care to argue with you or prove any point to you as a lot of guys here have already said what I would say.

You could have actually answered the question if you were going to bother to respond instead of responding and saying that you didn't want to respond. If you don't want to respond or debate, the most efficient way to do that is simply not respond. Its not so much that you can't coitize Mitch for having bad rotations in Januaray (not that I agree they are bad) but rather that people think he should be fired becuase he's not playing the rotations to the exact minute number they want in a time in the season when you should be finding out what you have. But sure, you can make valid cfriticisms of Mitch and I've literally said so many times in this thread.

 

[MannyIG]

Oh also Scott, I think our record is a bit of fools gold. I think we've reverted back to the mean a bit over the past month as the NBA has scouated us and made adjustments. Maybe they can make adjustments but if you ask me if I think they are the 3rd best team in the West then I honestly do not think so.

 

[scott]

Oh also Scott, I think our record is a bit of fools gold. I think we've reverted back to the mean a bit over the past month as the NBA has scouated us and made adjustments. Maybe they can make adjustments but if you ask me if I think they are the 3rd best team in the West then I honestly do not think so.

I want to see how we look against DET, but I think we are firmly in the mix in the second tier of teams, with OKC in Tier 1 all by themselves. DET/DEN/MIN/SAS/BOS are all in that second tier. The only thing I feel confident about ranking those teams is BOS would be last. I can make a case for any ranking of the rest, and I think our record against those teams speaks for itself.

Every top team (including OKC) has gone through a stretch similar to ours since Christmas.

 

[LeBowen]

Yes, welcome to how good teams operate in the NBA. Stars win the games. The next coach that elevates teams without hall of famers to an NBA title will be the first.

Is your argument that the Spurs would be this good with just anyone at the helm? Have you guys already forgotten what a shit show the last few years were RE: bad coaching? You literally have had 4-5 years of exceptionally bad coaching to compare this season to, and you are still acting like what Mitch is doing is that. It's just insane. Just look at how Keldon is playing. It's not like Keldon magically became a different and wiser player over the last year. He's being placed in a position where he can shine. THAT is what you want from a coach.

Again, has stuff like Keldon in a more natural role happened because Mitch is a basketball mastermind or because it's an obvious thing to do since we have actual point guards now?
Anyone would be an upgrade over Pop, but is Mitch enough of an upgrade?

 

[CrustyCoastBendFan]

always seems to be some degree of political connotation with it.

I accept your surrender. Thanks for understanding.

Whatever you and your friends need to get through the next day of what seems like a sad existence.
You all can continue to look for and find political statements on message board posts not directed at you, about a team you neither work for nor own. All take comfort in treating the message board like a personal text exchange.

Bring Tiago Home

 

[MannyIG]

Again, has stuff like Keldon in a more natural role happened because Mitch is a basketball mastermind or because it's an obvious thing to do since we have actual point guards now?
Anyone would be an upgrade over Pop, but is Mitch enough of an upgrade?

Who fucking knows? He hasn't even coached a full year yet. Bad coaches miss obvious things! Thats what makes them BAD coaches! I don't know if Mitch is going to be a good coach in teh long term but I do know nothing he's doing now is going to be why he is fired.

 

[MannyIG]

Also lets not act like having Keldon do what he is doing now was somehow obvious. I have no idea how many of you bitching about Mitch were also bitching about Keldon ready for him to be gone but I'm sure that applies to some of you so I don't think ANY of you get to say that the way he's using Keldon now was "obvious". Fuck that.

 

[LeBowen]

Who fucking knows? He hasn't even coached a full year yet. Bad coaches miss obvious things! Thats what makes them BAD coaches! I don't know if Mitch is going to be a good coach in teh long term but I do know nothing he's doing now is going to be why he is fired.

He's been in charge for more than a year now.

This game we're watching right now against a team desperately trying to lose is just embarrassing.

 

[MannyIG]

He's been in charge for more than a year now.

This game we're watching right now against a team desperately trying to lose is just embarrassing.

I too am embarrassed when the team I am a fan of wins a game on the road by nearly 20 points.

This single post is the epitome of this thread. Frame this shit and hang it in the Louvre. Appreciate you making the point so succinctly.

 

[LeBowen]

I too am embarrassed when the team I am a fan of wins a game on the road by nearly 20 points.

This single post is the epitome of this thread. Frame this shit and hang it in the Louvre. Appreciate you making the point so succinctly.

Yeah, let's pretend it was a blowout and that we played a team that isn't actively trying to lose games by sitting their best player.

You're just a sniffer, tbh.