News Project Marvel

[Fabbs]

WTF does some NY rag have to do with SATX issues?

Speaking directly to the tax issues with Project Marvel aka Spurs Stadium.
Do you have a problem with any specific point in the article?

Also
That is starting to get to where, as they say, you’re talking about real money — especially for building an arena to replace one that is only 23 years old and was just renovated 10 years ago. But by threatening that the team would leave (for somewhere unspecified) if public funds weren’t approved, as well as hammering on the idea that taxes on hotels and car rentals and the arena itself aren’t really tax money because reasons, Holt successfully convinced a slim majority of county residents that this arena will bring the promised redevelopment riches that the last one promised and failed to. As a prize, he will now get a $1.3 billion arena by putting down only about $500 million of his own money, and he can presumably expect to recoup some of that through things like the sale of naming rights and jacking up ticket prices, while the city and state will have to cover their share without any cut of arena revenues.

 

[O_V]

for a minute there, i thought the political forum had come back

Accidentally hit reply. Don't know how to make this go away. But I agree. People on either side trying to slip politics into the conversation are not as clever as they think they look.

 

[NASpurs]

https://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/news/2025/11/10/east-side-redevelopment-master-plan.html?utm_source=st&utm_medium=en&utm_campaign=ae&utm_content=AN&j=42451796&senddate=2025-11-10&utm_term=ep4&empos=p4

National developers pitch vision for East Side revitalization

The team is proposing a number of public financing mechanisms to get the deal done.​

Hunt Development Group and Lincoln Property Co. were given a green light last week to move forward as the master developers for the 400-acre site surrounding the Frost Bank Center and the Freeman Coliseum. The group was the sole respondent for a request for proposal (RFP) sent out by Bexar County's Coliseum Advisory Board this past summer.

The master plan calls for 3.6 million square feet of development over a 15-year period, as outlined in the RFP. Hunt and Lincoln write that they would leverage a year-round rodeo to plug in housing, entertainment, retail, hospitality and green space, creating a link to Willow Springs Golf Course.

"Our ultimate goal is to create a walkable, thriving district that drives generational prosperity, celebrates the Eastside's history, and delivers a bold, inclusive vision for San Antonio's future," the team wrote.

The passage of Proposition A means $311 million in county hotel and rental car taxes can be used for the redevelopment. Hunt and Lincoln are also proposing a new tax increment reinvestment zone for the site, as well as a municipal management district. Both incentives require approval. The team also expects parking revenues and ground lease payments to generate more cash for the county.

In an interview, Freeman Coliseum Executive Director Derrick Howard said the approval represents a chance to do what everyone from Bexar County Judge Peter Sakai to Project Marvel critics have been pushing for: a community-focused, comprehensive redevelopment of the East Side

"I think from the judge's perspective and my board's perspective, it was. 'Here's an opportunity to put a plan in place to really begin to look at this from a more holistic perspective and with a lot more teeth,'" he told the Business Journal.

The board's approval starts a monthslong process of community engagement and master planning, which will eventually reveal a detailed site plan, hoping to draw inspiration from the Fort Worth Stockyards and Dickies Arena, both in Fort Worth, and the American Airlines Center in Dallas.

Howard said the time has come for the East Side to experience the same kinds of opportunities that have come to the North Side, Brooks, Alamo Ranch and other areas of the city. But he cautioned anyone against expecting a massive wave of change overnight.

"This is not popcorn," Howard said. "This is not a sprint. This is going to take some time. But if we don't start we'll end up where we ended up in the past, and that's with not much change or there's change but maybe it's not exactly what we want."

Overland Partners is the lead design firm attached. The group also counts Joeris General Contractors, Metro Development Group and EBF Development & Design Studio as partners.

 

[Exstatic]

Speaking directly to the tax issues with Project Marvel aka Spurs Stadium.
Do you have a problem with any specific point in the article?

Also
That is starting to get to where, as they say, you’re talking about real money — especially for building an arena to replace one that is only 23 years old and was just renovated 10 years ago. But by threatening that the team would leave (for somewhere unspecified) if public funds weren’t approved, as well as hammering on the idea that taxes on hotels and car rentals and the arena itself aren’t really tax money because reasons, Holt successfully convinced a slim majority of county residents that this arena will bring the promised redevelopment riches that the last one promised and failed to. As a prize, he will now get a $1.3 billion arena by putting down only about $500 million of his own money, and he can presumably expect to recoup some of that through things like the sale of naming rights and jacking up ticket prices, while the city and state will have to cover their share without any cut of arena revenues.

An issue in a city a long way away. Again, who cares what some New Yorker has to say about it?

As for the money, $500M out of $1.3 B is a lot for a team to kick in.

 

[k....]

An issue in a city a long way away. Again, who cares what some New Yorker has to say about it?

As for the money, $500M out of $1.3 B is a lot for a team to kick in.

ok i know you know this, but some 50% of articles in second tier magazines and journals are seeded or outright written by PR agents. odds are that the new york angle is a specific designer, agent or finance professional that wanted his name dropped and said, heres a cool project , i did a small part i am open for business to do the same the world over. This is not an article for you, its for people who in big construction and big finance.

 

[scott]

What does it matter where someone who writes a website about the public funding about arenas is based? Does that somehow change the points they are making? And also, one of that sites contributors is a professor emeritus at UTSA and writer for the Current. That doesn't mean their opinions are right, but does that give them enough constituency to write about the Spurs? Or is anyone affiliated with any New Yorker disqualified from weighing in on the topic?

 

[Exstatic]

What does it matter where someone who writes a website about the public funding about arenas is based? Does that somehow change the points they are making? And also, one of that sites contributors is a professor emeritus at UTSA and writer for the Current. That doesn't mean their opinions are right, but does that give them enough constituency to write about the Spurs? Or is anyone affiliated with any New Yorker disqualified from weighing in on the topic?

I don’t care what the New Yawkers have to say. YMMV.

It’s like the old Pace Picante commercial:

“New York!?!? Somebody get a rope!”

 

[wemvp]

I don’t care what the New Yawkers have to say. YMMV.

It’s like the old Pace Picante commercial:

“New York!?!? Somebody get a rope!”

Jesus christ, this is just plain dumb to say. You're not a serous person regarding this issue. You should just admit the truth that you're a 100 percent biased homer who wants the Spurs to get their dicks sucked no matter how badly it financially screws over the people of San Antonio. At least be honest.

she is only a few steps away from that communist Mumdani. Total loser. Worst mayor we have ever had.

Stupid shit like this should be an automatic IP ban, tbh

The 150 million County tax contribution....

Top county official says giving Spurs owner $150m for arena would have “zero impact” on locals, needs to go back to tax school

With a public referendum on around $150 million worth of county funding for a San Antonio Spurs arena up for a vote five weeks from today, KSAT-TV had Bexar County Judge Peter Sakai, the county's top executive because Texas, sit down for a Q&A on the subject. This was decidedly a choice: Sakai...

www.fieldofschemes.com

This part:

"And how did Sakai do Sakai? Some highlights:

“I need to clear up some misinformation: This is not Project Marvel. That is a city of San Antonio project. … Proposition B is whatever balance of money, we put a cap, 25%, up to $311 million, and that is what is going to go to the new Spurs venue, wherever they want to put it. As far as Project Marvel, the county is not connected at all. So I hope that clears it up for the voters.”
True, the county money — $311 million collected over many years, so worth more like $150 million in present value — would only go toward paying 25% of the construction cost of an arena. But that arena is the centerpiece of the larger mixed-use Project Marvel development that is set for hundreds of millions more in public subsidies, so saying “this isn’t Project Marvel” is fairly disingenuous, and almost certainly not best described as “clearing things up for the voters.”

Is exactly what I said earlier in the thread. Spurs and corrupt city officials like Sakai, who should be investigated to see how much kickback is going into his pockets for this, flat lied to the citizens. The arena itself is a solid deal for the people, but that's only a small part of the project. The rest of it is probably over a $billion in taxes on locals that will be needed to fund the entirety of the project. Holt was willing to put up the $500 million for the arena because he will profit billions of $$$ off the larger development and arena combined at tax payer expense.

Anyone in SA who thinks only a small increase in hotels and car rentals tax is paying for all of this got hosed big time in this vote.

Oh well, enjoy your screw job and pray they actually follow through competently with most of what they promised this time, unlike what happened with the SBC center project.

 

[scott]

I don’t care what the New Yawkers have to say. YMMV.

It’s like the old Pace Picante commercial:

“New York!?!? Somebody get a rope!”

What a silly way to go through life. You do you.

 

[Spursgenius]

Jesus christ, this is just plain dumb to say. You're not a serous person regarding this issue. You should just admit the truth that you're a 100 percent biased homer who wants the Spurs to get their dicks sucked no matter how badly it financially screws over the people of San Antonio. At least be honest.




Stupid shit like this should be an automatic IP ban, tbh



This part:

"And how did Sakai do Sakai? Some highlights:

“I need to clear up some misinformation: This is not Project Marvel. That is a city of San Antonio project. … Proposition B is whatever balance of money, we put a cap, 25%, up to $311 million, and that is what is going to go to the new Spurs venue, wherever they want to put it. As far as Project Marvel, the county is not connected at all. So I hope that clears it up for the voters.”
True, the county money — $311 million collected over many years, so worth more like $150 million in present value — would only go toward paying 25% of the construction cost of an arena. But that arena is the centerpiece of the larger mixed-use Project Marvel development that is set for hundreds of millions more in public subsidies, so saying “this isn’t Project Marvel” is fairly disingenuous, and almost certainly not best described as “clearing things up for the voters.”

Is exactly what I said earlier in the thread. Spurs and corrupt city officials like Sakai, who should be investigated to see how much kickback is going into his pockets for this, flat lied to the citizens. The arena itself is a solid deal for the people, but that's only a small part of the project. The rest of it is probably over a $billion in taxes on locals that will be needed to fund the entirety of the project. Holt was willing to put up the $500 million for the arena because he will profit billions of $$$ off the larger development and arena combined at tax payer expense.

Anyone in SA who thinks only a small increase in hotels and car rentals tax is paying for all of this got hosed big time in this vote.

Oh well, enjoy your screw job and pray they actually follow through competently with most of what they promised this time, unlike what happened with the SBC center project.

Dude just move out of this city you cheap mf. Go live in the valley CS. Better yet go back to mexico

 

[wemvp]

Dude just move out of this city you cheap mf. Go live in the valley CS. Better yet go back to mexico

You're a fiscally dumb person. Probably a $1500 payment for 84 months on some stupid jacked up truck level dumb.

Stupidity like yours is not worth my time. You're going on ignore.

 

[ambchang]

Part I do not understand is why is it so hard to find the existing tourism tax revenue for the Bexar county. If a 0.25% increase will be enough to raise $311M, which would be done by 2032 (supposedly), so that is 6 years of taxes. Using that calculation (increase from 1.75% to 2%, so a 1/7 increase), it means that the current annual increase is a little more than $311M (1/7 over 6 years, so $311M/6*7, or about $360M or so. Does that sound reasonable? I am not sure why it is so hard to get these numbers in the open.

 

[scott]

So now that this is passed and we can pivot away from the political hot potato...

Does anyone know if they've published any kind of timelines for design on the new arena? With the Jackals actually sounding pretty good on TV, it would be cool for a "supporters section" to be built into the arena design - or something like "The Wall" at the Clippers new arena (or like the original Yellow Wall at Signal Iduna Park in Dortmund).

I know it's still early in the process, but I'm looking forward to checking out mocks ups and renderings.

 

[CrustyCoastBendFan]

I can’t wait for this to be over. Hopefully @scott and his partners can keep the toxic political rhetoric contained to this thread—stuff like that can ruin a message board. I’ve lived in San Antonio off and on for over 25 years, having grown up in the South Texas Coastal Bend, and now I’m settled in the Houston area. I served in the Army and have lived in nearly every city in Texas for a time, with the longest stretches in San Antonio, Corpus Christi, and now Houston.

Public works are public works. In Houston, I’ve seen one billionaire move a franchise after upsetting the public, only for another billionaire to step in and get the public to build him a shiny new stadium, which also brought good things like a light rail. In my hometown, little old Corpus has, in just the last half-decade, raised over $3 billion to replace an old rickety bridge and start the first large-scale desalination plant on the Gulf Coast.

Meanwhile, I’ve seen San Antonio stumble at public works—starting with the water situation, then the failure to make something of Kelly Field after the base closure, and the missed opportunity to upgrade the airport in time to keep major corporate anchors like AT&T, which had been in SA for 100 years. It was also a failure to attract or retain companies like USAA, which left, costing the city a billion-dollar corporate citizen.

All the tribal politicking here is complete nonsense. San Antonio needs to do something and join the rest of Texas, including little old Corpus, in the 21st century. Just get it done and move on. Good one Vote Barely passed. Everybody else with degrees or Bonafide's from this or that on the side of doing NOTHING. Kind of F off.

 

[Corso]

So now that this is passed and we can pivot away from the political hot potato...

Does anyone know if they've published any kind of timelines for design on the new arena? With the Jackals actually sounding pretty good on TV, it would be cool for a "supporters section" to be built into the arena design - or something like "The Wall" at the Clippers new arena (or like the original Yellow Wall at Signal Iduna Park in Dortmund).

I know it's still early in the process, but I'm looking forward to checking out mocks ups and renderings.

I wish they would have made a Baseline Bums section instead of The Jackals, just for historical purposes, but I do like the whole thing.
The atmosphere has been great.

 

[Exstatic]

So now that this is passed and we can pivot away from the political hot potato...

Does anyone know if they've published any kind of timelines for design on the new arena? With the Jackals actually sounding pretty good on TV, it would be cool for a "supporters section" to be built into the arena design - or something like "The Wall" at the Clippers new arena (or like the original Yellow Wall at Signal Iduna Park in Dortmund).

I know it's still early in the process, but I'm looking forward to checking out mocks ups and renderings.

Please God, don’t let it look like a shit emoji, or a sea shell. It’s a sports arena. Make it look like one.

 

[scott]

Please God, don’t let it look like a shit emoji, or a sea shell. It’s a sports arena. Make it look like one.

What are your least favorite modern sports facility designs? Most modern facilities I think are mostly fine. The new Rangers ballpark probably amongst the worst. But for basketball arenas, the exteriors are all kind of similar. All the newest ones (Intuit Dome, Chase Center, Fiserv Forum, Little Ceasars Arena, Golden 1 Center) all look fine to me.

Or are you just having an old man yells at clouds moment?

 

[scott]

I found this Bleacher Report article on the 25 Dumbest Stadiums ever built and the Alamodome makes the Top 10

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/447653-the-25-dumbest-stadiums-ever-built

 

[Exstatic]

What are your least favorite modern sports facility designs? Most modern facilities I think are mostly fine. The new Rangers ballpark probably amongst the worst. But for basketball arenas, the exteriors are all kind of similar. All the newest ones (Intuit Dome, Chase Center, Fiserv Forum, Little Ceasars Arena, Golden 1 Center) all look fine to me.

Or are you just having an old man yells at clouds moment?

 

[scott]

Or are you just having an old man yells at clouds moment?

Confirmed. Thanks for participating.

 

[Exstatic]

Confirmed. Thanks for participating.

You like Barclays? It looks like burned or soggy toast.

 

[scott]

You like Barclays? It looks like burned or soggy toast.

It's fine. If you've ever have a chance to visit Nike's campus in Beaverton, it kind of reminds me of some of their buildings.

It's the exterior of a basketball arena. There would have to be some serious crimes against architecture for me to really care too much.

Falling in the crimes against architecture is this, IMO, but it's only my opinion and everyone can have their own:

 

[Corso]

It's fine. If you've ever have a chance to visit Nike's campus in Beaverton, it kind of reminds me of some of their buildings.

It's the exterior of a basketball arena. There would have to be some serious crimes against architecture for me to really care too much.

Falling in the crimes against architecture is this, IMO, but it's only my opinion and everyone can have their own:

That looks like a pet food store chain warehouse.