Car Talk

[spurraider21]

Guess this can be a dedicated general car thread.

I'm not a big car enthusiast, but I do like to do a fair amount of research and get opinions before really beginning hunting for a good deal. I generally care more for practicality and ease of ownership than flash, extreme luxury, or status.

We've got two kids under 5, and a 3rd on the way (still very early on that front), so we will be dealing with a fair amount of time with 3 car seats and/or boosters. Already went full dad mode and we picked up a minivan about a year ago (Carnival hybrid) and absolutely love it. I hope to have that car for as long as it holds up. We will wind up with over 18k miles on it after the first year, so are putting it to good use.

Question for you guys is for our second car. The minivan is obviously the dedicated family hauler, its where the car seats are more or less permanently affixed, and its what we use for any out of town/family driving. Our second car... my wife basically just uses as her work commuter, or I'll take it on weekends if making a run to grocery store or whatnot (just to make sure the Carnival is available in case a need for it pops up with the kids home). However, on the odd occasion where the Carnival is unavailable (routine maintenance/oil change, needed for some errands where the cargo space is useful, or had to take one of the kids somewhere separate), we do have to make use of the second car even with the kids. This doesn't happen terribly often, but I basically do need a car that can fit the car seats in a pinch.

Obiously a second minivan/behemoth would be overkill. Right now, her current car is an old, beat up 2012 Chevy Volt. We quite literally got this from her parents as a hand-me-down, so I guess I can't complain, but its been more hassle than its worth. When we got it from them, the high voltage charging system wasn't working and needed a repair. Soon after, the instrument cluster display thing (which shows some important things like your speedometer and fuel/charge leve, etc) died, and neither of those were particularly cheap repairs. Then the AC motor died. Just a mess of a car tbh, but I guess i could consider the repair costs as a fair purchase price .

Anyway, the car actually would be something of a non-starter with a 3rd kid currently on the way because it is quite literally a 4 seater, and its so tight that our oldest one can't really comfortably sit in there anyway with his car seat. It's obviously not meant to be a family car. It's been barely serviceable enough to get the kids around as needed, but as a 4 seater, think we have to move on from it.

So I'm looking for a second car to complement the minivan, something that will primarily be an indiivdual daily commuter, but needing enough utility to move kids around. While fuel economy isn't the biggest priority in the very short term, within the next few years we will be moving back to Los Angeles, where drives/commutes are simply longer, and gas is noticeably more expensive, so it's not something I want to ignore. I'm not the type to regularly trade in cars, lease cars, etc, so I'm buying now while looking ahead to also dealing with the reality of living in LA.

My first thought was something like a full sized sedan like a Camry/Accord hybrid, pick up a nice used one, and that's that. I'm also potentially thinking of picking up a used EV, as those depreciate like hell, and the prices on them look very appealing. The ones that make sense size wise look like the Model Y, Hyundai Ioniq 5, or the Kia EV6. These are in the quasi-SUV class where the second row space is pretty decent, pretty comparable to the Camry/Accord, and I like the concept of getting ahead of my move back to LA by going electric. And as long as I look for certified pre-owed ones, I can make sure I have the 100k mile warranty on the pricey components.

Has anybody owned any of these? My sister has a model Y, but they got there's when they were fairly fresh around 2020 or so, and I know those were definitely rough around the edges, so there's may not be the best point of reference.

 

[scott]

I counted fairly recently in the now 30 years since I've been old enough to drive (ugh), I've owned 30 cars ranging from a 1982.5 Datsun/Nissan Maxima (quite literally, half of the car had Datsun badges and other parts had a Nissan badge) to an Aston Martin (which was a terrible mistake that involves a way too long story, cops and judges).

I just got my wife a new 4Runner and I am currently driving a BMW i4, which is relevant to the conversation about EVs.

Why did I pick the i4 as my EV of choice? Well for starters (without trying to sound pretentious) I've found BMW to be my favorite brand to own and drive. I've not had any of the problems people usually say they have with Beamers. They are excellent machines but like any machine they need to be maintained. Take care of your machine and it will usually be okay. I've had quite a bit of BMWs and I've found for me, whenever I stray away from the brand I regret it. I've had an E30, which I loved, a 3-series, an X5 and an X7. IMO, the BMW turbocharged straight 6 remains the best engine you can buy. My X5 and X7 were V8s and they were awesome but they weren't quite as good as the I6.

When I decided I wanted an EV, I looked at all of them, and what I liked about the BMW (aside from my existing affinity for BMW) was that it was still a "normal car". It didn't have a stupid enlarged IPad on the center console that controlled everything. Aside from the electric motor, it is pretty much indistinguishable from a 3-series. It's build quality is also a tremendous upgrade from anything Tesla makes. I've only ridden in Tesla's and test driven one... but IMO they just feel cheap.

The i4 comes in a range of performance levels. I've only driven the eDrive40 and the m50 (which is the one I own). There is also an eDrive35, but I haven't driven that one. The m50 is a beast... 536hp and 586 lb-ft of torque... more power than an M3/M4. You can probably get a 2023 eDrive35 or eDrive40 for about whatever you'd pay for a Model Y... I'd encourage you to check one out if you don't have an qualms about the BMW badge.

With all that said... charging is kind of becoming a pain in the ass now that we are down to one functional charger at the office... I am contemplating trading in for a new Tacoma so I can go full Hawaii Island Boi.

Thanks for attending my commercial for BMW.

 

[spurraider21]

im the opposite lol. i hate churning through cars.

1) I owned a 2008 Civic from 2008 thru 2024. Would have kept it for longer if I could, but it frankly didn't have use for a 2-door car with a family if 4. My wife had been using it as her commuter during med school back east, and it frankly wasnt worth the cost to ship it (or the hassle to drive it) when we moved to Vegas. i got $6,500 for it, which made it sting less.

2) we had a subaru forester from 2021 thru 2024. bought it used, and traded it when we got the minivan. served us well when we needed it on the east coast and had just 1 kiddo. factoring in how much i got for the trade, i basically paid 7k for a 3.5 year lease.

3) mid 2024 we adopted my in-law's Volt, and late 2024 we bought the Carnival. the car has been a headache but cant complain. but have really enjoyed the plug-in lifestyle.

4) bought the aformentioned minivan. hope to have it for a decade+

beamers are nice cars, its just not what i want out of a car. i view vehicles as appliances, other people really love the drive. my dad is a big car enthusiast. he loves driving sticks, used to have a trans am, then a c5 z06, etc. just was never my thing. i want to use it, not have to worry too much about maintenance, and then discard it when its job is done. fortunately my wife is very low maintenance when it comes to this stuff. she's a bigger cheapskate than i am.

 

[scott]

That's amazing you got $6500 for a 16 year old Civic! Well done.

I'm jealous of you... I have wasted so much money on cars. I wish I hadn't. Every time I say I'm going to keep one for a long time, I end up failing myself. The cars I owned the longest were a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon and BMW 335. Both cars I made mods to and really enjoyed. The Jeep I got rid of because we started having kids and the 335 just was breaking down (some in part to the aforementioned mods) and was becoming too of a headache.

You have the correct, utilitarian approach to cars. Never change.

 

[spurraider21]

That's amazing you got $6500 for a 16 year old Civic! Well done.

I'm jealous of you... I have wasted so much money on cars. I wish I hadn't. Every time I say I'm going to keep one for a long time, I end up failing myself. The cars I owned the longest were a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon and BMW 335. Both cars I made mods to and really enjoyed. The Jeep I got rid of because we started having kids and the 335 just was breaking down (some in part to the aforementioned mods) and was becoming too of a headache.

You have the correct, utilitarian approach to cars. Never change.

its not "correct." i dont think people are wrong for taking an interest in cars or loving the drive. its just not my perspective. the only ones i'll say are wrong are people who perpetually lease cars that they cant afford to buy

as for the civic, yeah, it was a private sale back in charlottesville. the car was 16 years old but was relatively light on mileage (around 150k iirc) and i kept it in good shape. fortunately, the buyer was some young girl looking for her first car and her older sister was helping her make the purchase. they pulled up together in a.... 2008 honda civic. older sister had a good experience with hers and knew they were reliable/bankable. i had also detailed the car right after i put it up on craigslist and when test driving it they kept commenting on how i kept it in such good shape (glad they didnt see it 2 weeks earlier ).

i was realistically going to take 5.5k for it if push came to shove, but they whole time they came to check out the car they didnt even mention price. they test drove it, we walked in the house, they kind of looked at each other and nodded. younger sister just handed me an envelope with 6500 cash lol. we drove to atm to make sure it all deposited and that was that.

considering the sale price and the purchase price of that was something between 20-21k, i more or less paid $900 per year for the car before maintenance. bittersweet to let it go

 

[scott]

its not "correct." i dont think people are wrong for taking an interest in cars or loving the drive. its just not my perspective. the only ones i'll say are wrong are people who perpetually lease cars that they cant afford to buy

as for the civic, yeah, it was a private sale back in charlottesville. the car was 16 years old but was relatively light on mileage (around 150k iirc) and i kept it in good shape. fortunately, the buyer was some young girl looking for her first car and her older sister was helping her make the purchase. they pulled up together in a.... 2008 honda civic. older sister had a good experience with hers and knew they were reliable/bankable. i had also detailed the car right after i put it up on craigslist and when test driving it they kept commenting on how i kept it in such good shape (glad they didnt see it 2 weeks earlier ).

i was realistically going to take 5.5k for it if push came to shove, but they whole time they came to check out the car they didnt even mention price. they test drove it, we walked in the house, they kind of looked at each other and nodded. younger sister just handed me an envelope with 6500 cash lol. we drove to atm to make sure it all deposited and that was that.

considering the sale price and the purchase price of that was something between 20-21k, i more or less paid $900 per year for the car before maintenance. bittersweet to let it go

I am very much willing to say my approach is incorrect. I appreciate you trying to make me feel better about it... but m interest in cars has resulted in poor decisions. I'm fortunate to be in a position to make these mistakes, but they are still mistakes and that money would have been better spent in another way.

I'll even go as far to say I would have been better off leasing in many cases. I just have ADD when it comes to cars, and it's been a money pit as a result.

We sold the X5 and X7 before we moved to HI and that was the best... it was during COVID and we got what we paid for them. I basically drove both cars for free while we owned them.

 

[spurraider21]

I am very much willing to say my approach is incorrect. I appreciate you trying to make me feel better about it... but m interest in cars has resulted in poor decisions. I'm fortunate to be in a position to make these mistakes, but they are still mistakes and that money would have been better spent in another way.

I'll even go as far to say I would have been better off leasing in many cases. I just have ADD when it comes to cars, and it's been a money pit as a result.

We sold the X5 and X7 before we moved to HI and that was the best... it was during COVID and we got what we paid for them. I basically drove both cars for free while we owned them.

there are fringe scenarios where leasing makes sense, like if your need for a certain car or type of car is going to be temporary (small family expected to expand, older person who probably isnt going to drive for 5-10 more years), but too many people lease cars because they just want to keep driving shiny new cars instead of just looking for used cars within their budget

for personal/individual use, the dollars and cents almost always just say to buy used. even if you want to spring for CPO with warranty, its still going to make more sense than leasing or buying new.

i tried looking for used minivans when i started hunting, but realized how impractical it was going to be. wanted a hybrid, and the only hybrid minivans on the used markets were siennas and pacificas. pacifica reliability is dogshit, let alone a used one. and the used sienna market was absurd. even with ~25k miles on them they basically cost as much as the new ones. new siennas were in such short supply that the resale market was exploding.

definitely looking to buy used for this second car

 

[ambchang]

I am bloody cheapskate, the first car I drove lasted 16 years, the door locks don't really work on rear passenger side, and at the end I had to tie the trunk down with a rock because it wont snap properly. My wife basically said it's either the car or her before I switched it out.

I get why people love cars though, if I could ever afford it I’d get a 1997 NSX but that will never ever happen.

 

[Lefty20]

I've been driving since 2006. Only had 3 cars in that 19 year span.

1) 1997 Camry that my parents bought for me.

2) 2008 Camry that I bought from my sister in 2015 for $4500. It was a generous family discount, tbh.

3) 2024 Model 3 Highland that I bought last year.

Model Y is a great car. My only advice is to not go with a 2021 model. Model 3 & Y from that year are known for battery issues.

But 2022-2024 would be good value now that the refreshed Juniper version is out.

I was close to buying a new Model Y last year, but ultimately went with the refreshed Model 3 Highland. While the extra size would've been nice, it ain't necessary for me atm.

 

[spurraider21]

I am bloody cheapskate, the first car I drove lasted 16 years, the door locks don't really work on rear passenger side, and at the end I had to tie the trunk down with a rock because it wont snap properly. My wife basically said it's either the car or her before I switched it out.

I get why people love cars though, if I could ever afford it I’d get a 1997 NSX but that will never ever happen.

the only part of my civic that didnt really work well by the end was the center console didnt snap shut anymore. guess the plastic clip or whatever wore out. i ended up just using velcro shifts for a makeshift locking mechanism

 

[spurraider21]

I've been driving since 2006. Only had 3 cars in that 19 year span.

1) 1997 Camry that my parents bought for me.

2) 2008 Camry that I bought from my sister in 2015 for $4500. It was a generous family discount, tbh.

3) 2024 Model 3 Highland that I bought last year.

Model Y is a great car. My only advice is to not go with a 2021 model. Model 3 & Y from that year are known for battery issues.

But 2022-2024 would be good value now that the refreshed Juniper version is out.

I was close to buying a new Model Y last year, but ultimately went with the refreshed Model 3 Highland. While the extra size would've been nice, it ain't necessary for me atm.

imo if we decide to go the EV route it probably will come down between a used Ioniq 5 vs used Model Y. will probably just come down to my wife's preference on the giant tablet screen vs more conventional UI on the Ioniq. since we already drive a modern kia, the hyundai interphase will be pretty familiar

 

[Blizzardwizard]

Well for starters (without trying to sound pretentious) I've found BMW to be my favorite brand to own and drive. I've not had any of the problems people usually say they have with Beamers. They are excellent machines but like any machine they need to be maintained. Take care of your machine and it will usually be okay. I've had quite a bit of BMWs and I've found for me, whenever I stray away from the brand I regret it. I've had an E30, which I loved, a 3-series, an X5 and an X7. IMO, the BMW turbocharged straight 6 remains the best engine you can buy. My X5 and X7 were V8s and they were awesome but they weren't quite as good as the I6.

a fellow classic BMW enjoyer

have never experienced an E30 myself but have heard of lot of different opinions about the various models. what is your take on them?

 

[scott]

a fellow classic BMW enjoyer

have never experienced an E30 myself but have heard of lot of different opinions about the various models. what is your take on them?

The steering was the most direct feeling I've ever experienced, it was really awesome. I only had a 318, which I think was only rated at like 135hp when brand new, but it still had some nice pep from the manual transmission. Really fun car. The guy I sold it to dropped in an M3 engine

 

[Blizzardwizard]

The steering was the most direct feeling I've ever experienced, it was really awesome. I only had a 318, which I think was only rated at like 135hp when brand new, but it still had some nice pep from the manual transmission. Really fun car. The guy I sold it to dropped in an M3 engine

yeah i've heard the E30 described it as a very bare bones driving experience but in a good way. immaculate build with a great engine. one of those gotta-have-one cars but realistically there's little chance of finding one nowadays that's A) affordable and B) not rusted to hell and back

my dad made a lot of the carbon parts for M Team BMW's 318 touring car programme in europe in the 90s. used to see competition moulds for door panels, dashboards and fuel tanks just lying around as a kid... often wonder what they'd have been worth these days!

when BMW switched from the E30 to the E36 in competition, instead of using a new engine like all the other manufacturers would when switching race models, they just took the S14 engine right out of the E30 M3 and de-stroked it from 2.5L to 2.0L to meet the new regulations. they had blank checks for engine building but just re-used the old one since they loved it so much

 

[Fabbs]

PHEVs interest any of you? Some of you had said practical and long lasting.
Toyota is upping the elec travel to 50 miles before converting to gas on the 2026 Rav4.

Along with improved suspension it should be a winner.
If you're looking to flip it, Toys hold their value.

 

[spurraider21]

PHEVs interest any of you? Some of you had said practical and long lasting.
Toyota is upping the elec travel to 50 miles before converting to gas on the 2026 Rav4.

Along with improved suspension it should be a winner.
If you're looking to flip it, Toys hold their value.

I like the concept of PHEVs as well. The volt we have now is one, for instance and we almost exclusively use the electric range of about 34 miles. Charge it overnight every night with level 1

But i think full electric will serve us well for when we get back to LA

 

[scott]

yeah i've heard the E30 described it as a very bare bones driving experience but in a good way. immaculate build with a great engine. one of those gotta-have-one cars but realistically there's little chance of finding one nowadays that's A) affordable and B) not rusted to hell and back

my dad made a lot of the carbon parts for M Team BMW's 318 touring car programme in europe in the 90s. used to see competition moulds for door panels, dashboards and fuel tanks just lying around as a kid... often wonder what they'd have been worth these days!

when BMW switched from the E30 to the E36 in competition, instead of using a new engine like all the other manufacturers would when switching race models, they just took the S14 engine right out of the E30 M3 and de-stroked it from 2.5L to 2.0L to meet the new regulations. they had blank checks for engine building but just re-used the old one since they loved it so much

My E30 was in pretty excellent condition and I bought for $8500 in HI during COVID... I'd imagine you can find one for a pretty good price so long as you're not looking for an M3

 

[Blizzardwizard]

My E30 was in pretty excellent condition and I bought for $8500 in HI during COVID... I'd imagine you can find one for a pretty good price so long as you're not looking for an M3